Scope

ok - i have actually worked on a dog team with a crowd control dog... i cant go into the specifics of the legals for keeping the dog in QLD because i'm from melbourne... i also have no idea about what sort of training is offered up that way, and i just sort of stumbled into things down here... there is nothing wrong with taking on a company dog, if it has been trained correctly... it saves a hell of a lot of hassle and heartbreak with raising puppies and then finding serious temperment flaws, or just not having it in them to do the job... it also means you are more likely to actually be able to get out there and start working, instead of spending years and $$$ trying to find the right dog... however do be wary because the general attitude in australia seems to be that the dog should only bond with and work for one handler (and therefore display aggressive behaviour towards anyone else) IMO a GOOD working dog should be safe enough to be handed over to someone else and will work just as well no matter who is holding the lead... i didnt do it very often, but when i had my GSD i could hand the lead to a friend, and she (dog) would quite happily work for someone else, and just as happily bite me as well... make sure you are allowed to take your dog home with you... i definitely wouldnt suggest giving it free run of the house... and in most cases a secure pen is a very good idea, regardless of whether you plan to register the dog as dangerous or not (i didnt with either of my two)... as well as keeping the general public safe from your dog, it also protects your investment from J. Random Moron... dont work for a company that doesnt want to train you, or doesnt have some sort of regular organised training... a responsible company will want to keep an eye on what sort of dogs their employees are using... on the issue of muzzles... we had to work our dogs with muzzles on... and a muzzled dog can be just as much of a weapon as an unmuzzled dog if it has been taught correctly and fitted with a proper agitation muzzle with a steel bar in it... and a no-bite situation means less paperwork and legal sh!t for you... i'm being incredibly serious here when i say that unless a weapon is involved, or someone's life is at stake, you're better off preventing the dog from getting a live bite... believe me, being collected by 35+kg of GSD, 45+kg of rottweiler, or worse a mere 20-odd kg of malinois at head height, in full flight, f#cking hurts... and copping a muzzle to the kidneys will usually ruin your night in a hurry... we used quick release muzzles, but in all honesty found the best setup was to have the muzzle a tiny bit loose, and the quickest way to get it off was one hand on the dog's collar and two fingers under the top strap of the muzzle and drag it over the dog's head... muzzle off in mere seconds every time... the dogs also worked out that if the muzzles were taken off normally, it usually meant that everything was fine and they could relax, but if the muzzle came off with the drag method, then the midden had hit the windmill, and it was ON!

hope you're still working on this, Erny... i have only just gotten around to writing out my submission, and i'm sending it off for a second opinion before i forward it to you... sorry for being so slack, hope i'm not too late!!

they sound like idiots... i'd tell your sis and mum to ask for a refund and find another puppy pre school to go to... asking puppies to sit for an hour is completely unreasonable... hell you'd be hard-pressed to get a lot of mature dogs to stay sitting that long... and what's wrong with verbal correction? what do they expect to be used instead? i think these "trainers" are the ones that need the training....

will try to come along, if i do it'll prolly be about 6pm... hope there are still some tickets left!

i have only just had this thread pointed out to me, damn mate, that's f***ed doubtful that any of it will turn up down here, but i'll try to keep an eye out for you...

things are all a matter of perception and when things are aimed at you they're often seen in an entirely different light to what a bystander would... i dont need to be told off for hitting my dog, i'm allready beating myself up about it, thus coming here to ask for help........ just about every time i post here i end up in an argument so f*** it, i'm not going to bother coming back...

i didnt come here for a flaming, i came here for advice... i have allready said that i feel terrible for hitting my dog but it was something i did without thinking after she redirected onto me, she ran into me and turned around and snapped at me, caught me, and she didnt break skin but it HURT, and i lashed out without stopping to think because i was having a shitty enough day without her being a pain in the arse... she's never done it before and i've never done it before and i dont want it to happen again... yes most of my posts may be about my dogs irritating me but everything frigging irritates me atm, the house i'm living in, the fact i have little to no work, the fact my bank account is now overdrawn by $1100 because i had to pay the rent... i'm trying to look after my dogs because they do provide me with some happiness in all the shit i'm going through but it seems now they're just adding to it as well... and no i'm not here asking for sympathy i just want a little understanding and a bit of advice... separating them doesnt work just results in the shep being even more of a pain when i let the rotty out again... and if it's the shep i separate then she screams the neighbourhood down... she doesnt have separation anx. because she doesnt care about me going inside or going out... but if she thinks she's being excluded then all hell breaks loose... or if she thinks the rotty has anything to do with anything then she just goes stupid... anyway i'm still tired and shitty so i'll shut up now.. i dont know why i even bother posting here some days............... thanks to those who didnt flame.

ok little background info... i have a female GSD and a male rotty... GSD was originally bought by a family who she was too boisterous for, was inadvertently reinforced for barking at the husband (he was scared of her and i know hit her on at least one occasion), wound up in a boarding kennel for about a year before i took her on... she has some mid-range aggression problems towards some humans and doesnt like other dogs at all... Rotty was bought from a pet shop by a fella who loved him to bits, spoilt him rotten, but was beaten up by the neighbours when noone was home... was re-homed to me because the guy who had him was moving interstate due to family commitments and the dog would have been a disaster waiting to happen where he was going... has severe human aggression problems to just about everyone except me... Rotty has been living in a pen for most of the time he has been with me, for his own safety as well as everyone else's.. GSD was an inside dog when i got him, seemed to accept him OK... on K9-Force's suggestion, i've been leaving the rotty out of his pen so they both have full run of the back yard (i would love to let them both inside the house as well but cant now i've moved, it's a rental with cream carpets and a mud puddle for a back yard :/ )... it took a few days for the heirachy disputes to settle and initially i would put the rotty back in his pen at dinner time, then let him out again about half an hour later... now i feed them separately but at the same time, they will both stay in a drop next to each other, focus on me, wait for however long i make them, recall to me (at the same time), then go eat their own dinner... there's no fights over food or anything and my relationship with the rotty has improved a great deal now that he has more freedom... i can do so many more things with him without him getting defensive... it was actually quite funny tonight, they ended up on opposite sides to normal when they put themselves in their drop stay, and when i recalled them they crashed into each other then ran off to each other's food bowls and started eating... so i roused on them both and theny recalled to me and then ran off to their own bowls... lol... but i digress... i have been doing prey drive training with the rotty (will start with the shep later, one dog at a time is enough)... and it's also helped a lot with him... i have to get my OH to walk the shepherd when i do, though, or she howls the house down... the shepherd is the main problem here, she is starting to annoy the sh*t out of me, because every time i go outside (and i do try to spend a fair bit of time with them every day), she starts to whinge and whine and carry on, and snap at the rotty, who usually ignores her now... and i'm really not sure what to do because nothing i have tried so far seems to work... i try to give them both attention at the same time but the shepherd wont sit down and be happy to be patted, she has to keep harrasing the rotty... even if he wanders off elsewhere and she's the only one getting attention she still wants to keep annoying him... i can get her to drop next to me but she keeps whinging and sits there quivering and crying and wont shut up... i've tried giving them both food treats at the same time and it doesnt seem to have much effect either, the rotty will inhale his tidbits but the shep hardly seems interested in them... and i am ashamed to admit that she redirected onto me when she bumped into me and i snapped and punched her quite hard in the side a few times, and all she did was give me a baleful look and keep whinging... i feel really bad about doing it but it seems not even inflicting pain will make her shut up... it only happens when i'm in the back yard... and now even if i put the rotty back in his pen (because i will if he's barking at the horses over the back fence in the middle of the night... grr) she will still run around like a fool and cry and b*tch and carry on... it's starting to annoy me because i can see myself losing my temper with her again, which i really dont want to do, but i dont know what else to do, and it makes me less likely to want to spend time with them outside... it's getting me down and any help at all would be appreciated... if anyone feels this should be in training go ahead and move it... thanks in advance...

i still have to DD the money for my ball-on-a-string... it's coming too, i promise... i am seriously flat broke atm... and i have to appologise to all you lovely ppl who are after a dvd from me... i'm getting there... again comes down to money... i need another hard drive to be able to get ALL the tapes onto my pc and start editing... have been planning on getting one anyway but just havent been able to afford it :/ i WILL get it all done and sent off as soon as i'm able...

and i was the hardest one to find!! nyuk nyuk nyuk > nah seriously even with me hiding in a bugger of a spot (ner ner Steve i hid better than you) the dogs still did a totally awesome job of finding us all, i'm blown away! :D

copies of footage wont be a problem - condensing it all and re-encoding it will be... given my shocking camera work and the fact that most of it just steve talking i might try to knock the quality for a lot of it down a fair bit... just keep bits with demonstrations/diagrams etc at a decent quality... i appologise in advance if this takes me fricking ages, but i will get it done eventually! i will check with Steve again tomorrow that it is OK to hand out copies, and those who want them (that attended yesterday) can PM me a mailing address, i'll send it out on however many DVD's it ends up being oh, and nice to know who a few more of the ppl sitting around me were, even if i didnt get to meet you all properly :D

feralpup, i was sitting next to you with the video camera on my knee... and fido, i WILL mail that tape back to you, PM me your address... with Steve's permission (i'm pretty sure he has said previously that it's cool if copies of video taken are given to other attendees) i will try to condense the whole 5 tapes - almost 1.5hrs each - onto a dvd or two, as soon as i can manage to clear the hard drive space on my pc to dump it all over... Nekhbet, sorry again for getting you to bring both of your terrors down... lol (i asked to borrow Skooter (the dogue) for the day - didnt realise just how many other dogs would be there!) hope your foot gets better real soon, too! and Erny if you want a tutorial on your camera software let me know, i can drop over one day when i'm not doing anything... :D

in reply to the original post, i made the mistake of ignoring my rotty's growls, and it got me bitten... he was a private re-homing case, i am his second human... he was beaten quite severely by the neighbours of his previous owner (who loved him to bits, for the record), and learnt that the correct response to a new unfamiliar human was to bite them before they could hurt him... i had him in a pen at home for a month before i could get him out and handle him... he started off pretty good with me but would always growl and carry on, and i'd ignore him... one night he just turned around and bit me... we're pretty much sorted out now, though... but i think you should really go and see a qualified behaviourist before your situation escalates... the lats thing you need is for your dog to bite someone... my rotty is just so damn lucky that i am so understanding/forgiving, and also that i have a purpose in mind for him (security/protection dog), otherwise he would long ago been given his wings...

this question is out of sheer curiousity, it is not an attempt to put you down in any way... but why do you feel the need to have a dog to protect you? and as far as having a dog that will protect you, you have to be very careful about how you train them or you'll have a loose cannon on your hands... a lot of the time simply having a big dog with you will be enough of a deterrent... but how about you just teach the dog to 'speak' on command? a dog barking at someone who wants to have a go at you will generally put them off in a big hurry, if they werent initially worried simply by the presence of the dog... there doesnt need to be any biting or attacking involved... speaking as the owner of two aggressive dogs (who feel the need to protect themselves, and couldnt give a shit about me), it really is a pain in the arse having such an animal out in public... you have to be constantly aware of your environment and what your dog is doing, and constantly scanning for anything that could possibly be considered a threat by the dog... so unless your dog is trained correctly, you're just going to end up with a big problem on your hands... if you let us know where you are there might be someone in your area who could help you out with some proper protection and bite work... but please please dont just try to do this on your own, for your sake, and your dog's....

i wasnt upset by the heeling video, i thought it was absolutely beautiful... the focus and closeness that dog had was unreal, and i just loved the way he was lifting his right paw up to dodge his handler's left leg when they were walking... and that waggly tail the whole way was just unreal! i personally cant see a problem with Sch... a properly trained dog should think it's all a big game... and as far as i have seen there is no mistreatment of dogs during the training.... i say as far as i have seen, because there's no doubt idiots out there who get it wrong... the 'sticks' they hit them with are usually very light, and make more noise than anything... they are a distraction to the dog, not something to cause them pain... who wants a working dog with broken ribs? it aint gunna be much good to you... and people forget Sch isnt all about bit work... there is a big tracking element and lots of obedience in there too... edit: sense me not make...