Diablo

if you want to teach tight performance then you will need it to a degree. No good rewarding a dog for a half arsed performance then try and get a tight, fast performance later ... one confused dog!

I have one set of commands for every day stuff and another for work/schutzhund. The two put the dogs in completely different frame of mind too, just make sure they dont sound too similar. Saying that sit, drop are the same for all situations

Do you use the German commands in Schutzhund training Nek???

get yourself a martingale collar or even a light check chain. Also have a nice long lead. Now from the sounds of it you are pandering more to her and not giving her an incentive to listen to you. She doesnt have to! Also the dog is to be hungry, no food that day at all and have some super tasty food in your pocket.

just start walking, if she doesnt follow give little sharp tugs on the leash and 'come come come come on pup pup pup' in a high pitched loud voice and she will follow. DO NOT STOP. biggest mistake is stopping, just keep walking, talking, tug tug tug until she catches up then when she does GOOD DOG *TREAT* and keep walking. If she looks at you keep praising the moment she doesnt, stop all praise. If she bolts ahead, do a 180 and same again, tug tug tug and keep moving. I dont want you to stop once. Keep it at a good pace, keep her interested and she will follow you in one small session. She obviously wants interest BUT you have to show her she has to work for it, you are providing everything too easily and there is no repercussion for her ignoring you. She's big enough now to behave and pay attention.

This works on dogs of all ages and I use this with many of my clients. You find you get a natural focus from the dog as it learns to think and treat you as the leader. It also learns it HAS to pay attention or it looses track of where you went and the chance for praise or a jackpot treat (I dont feed constantly I really do not believe in it for this, many dogs can get ill from rich food and romping about. Jackpots for great behavior and thats it)

Excellent post, totally agree on that method

Shopping Centres are the best lots and lots and lots of distractions. The people shopping, the kids, the shopping trolleys, the cleaners, the delivery vans, the cars in the car park the list goes on and on and on. If your dog can cope in this situation a normal trail situation should be a breeze.

and lets face it most people are impressed by a well trained dog ;)

now how many times have people offered their dog for you to train ;)

Shopping centres are excellent places to train for maximum distraction. It's sad the amount of people that are impressed by a well trained dog which goes to show in the general community that most dogs are hardly trained at all like it's unusual to see a dog that is trained is the impression I get. The amount of times I get, "is that a police dog???" my boy being a GSD that can perform various tasks and manouvers, they have a strange look on their face when replying "he's just a pet".

Here are some pics of a deadlocked fursaver with links removed to fit the dogs neck firmly which eliminates hair loss, fast in reaction and is the preferred collar that we have been instructed to use in Schutzhund training and is working extremely well.

Looks good, but how do you correct the dog without the tightening aspect? Wouldn't it be the same as a flat collar in terms of just pressure at the front of the throat/neck as they pull, and there's no real way to get a clean correction/pop on the leash?

ETA ~ never mind, found your reply in my other thread

Shelle, just to elaborate on the correction, it's not the tightening action of the collar that provides the correction..........with a heavy puller on a choker chain they keep pulling even when becoming choked, they are coughing and spluttering and still pulling, grab a breath and pull again. The correction amounts to the speed and sharpness of applying it with the timing of it most critical. For example you are walking along with a loose leash dog by your side and it begins to head towards a tree for a sniff. It's best to have some leash gathered up where as soon as your short leash tightens as the dog pulls, drop the slack to give the dog full leash and at the same time crack the leash back towards you, timed perfectly would be at the same time the dog reaches the end of the leash. It's the shock and sharpness of the pop that overrides the dog's desire to sniff the tree..........like the dog thinks, "geez what was that" :D and you have regained it's attention with a "NO" command, it soon gets the message. That's the principal around the correction, it's shock and sharpness not strangulation as such.

That's a very good point you raised Erny with the "rattle of the chain" where I have experienced that in a very pronounced way between a Black Dog martingale with a fabric coupling and silent to any chain with a rattle component. I have noticed that even a wiggle on the leash and a chain rattle corrects the dog which with a silent collar would require a higher level of correction to achieve the same result, and a reason why I don't like the fabric Black Dog training collar.

Thanks Diablo. There's something else too, that I have noticed, but I don't know if it is something that is peculiar only to me. That is that I too can more easily 'hear' (ie not only 'feel') the message I'm sending to the dog I'm working with - IE how 'clean' and how quick the correction was/is, through the sound of the chain. Is this just me, or do others notice this too?

YES absolutely .... I actually used the fabric martingale for a couple of months to allow our boy's hair to grow back on the side of his neck and struggled with a clean sharp correction. The dog was farily good at the time, but to start a dog on the fabric collar where they need a sharp correction phase in training, the feel was wrong. You tend to have the feel of the "flick" like a cracking a whip where it's timed perfectly which I can only attain properly with a chain...you are "spot on" with that description :D The other thing especially with a hard temperament GSD, they can desensitise to corrections when applying them too often, with the chain you have a two stage correction with the "rattle" and then a pop if necessary.

Here are some pics of a deadlocked fursaver with links removed to fit the dogs neck firmly which eliminates hair loss, fast in reaction and is the preferred collar that we have been instructed to use in Schutzhund training and is working extremely well.

I haven't used one.

But personally, I like that the chain has a noise to it. When the noise is paired with the correction by the dog, sometimes the sound of the chain itself can become a sufficient 'correction' for some dogs, without needing to always follow through to the physical element of the correction.

It is for this reason I prefer the chain section of martingales as well, rather than the webbing style that is often used instead of that chain component.

I also wonder at how fast the "silent training collar" would deliver the correction by comparison to the chain. Timing is one of the keys to training, both in delivery of reinforcers as well as in the delivery of corrections.

That's a very good point you raised Erny with the "rattle of the chain" where I have experienced that in a very pronounced way between a Black Dog martingale with a fabric coupling and silent to any chain with a rattle component. I have noticed that even a wiggle on the leash and a chain rattle corrects the dog which with a silent collar would require a higher level of correction to achieve the same result, and a reason why I don't like the fabric Black Dog training collar.

Yes they should.

I am sick of owners of smaller dogs thinking it is ok for their small dog to rush up to mine, aggress and generally behave in an unsocial manner. If the tables are turned - I suspect the small dog owner would have a massive issue if my large dog ran up to theirs and acted in the same manner. I suspect I would have the council ranger on my doorstep before I could say boo.

From what I have seen, many large dogs become reactive to smaller dogs because of repeated instances of this type of behaviour.

Inciting even more of this small dog owners are idiots angst is hardly productive. Its not the size of the dog that matters, they are all dogs after all. This topic was done and dusted by the first page.

Ummm - why is my post singled out??

Just because I may have read the thread after it had gone past page 1 does not mean I cannot add my view to the topic.

I totally agree with your observation Danois and in fact, I have had owners of small dogs bragging to be an advantage of a small dog is "they don't require much training", meaning poor behaviour is more easily handled, controlled and accepted.

Training a dog to behave takes effort and is an effort that many dog owners are not prepared to do. With a small dog, it's easier to get away with poor behaviour.........in the crunch, you can pick the dog up if necessary and stick it under your arm with the behaviour in society generally overlooked :D A large dog forces us to train them to behave, there is no other option other than having the ranger knocking on the door. The worse behaved dogs I have seen are small dogs without question

Kelpie-i' date='12th Oct 2009 - 06:36 PM' post='4042201

I don't actually believe in "dominance aggression" since a truly dominant dog doesn't usually need to attack unless defending his status or protecting a resource. I would call it more "middle rank aggression" since it's normally middle management that are trying to work their way up that cause upsets and bully others. These sort of dogs are not natural born leaders and will always "fight" due to their natural lack of confidence. A rank dog is almost always cool, calm and collected, with nothing much to prove.

Dominance aggression is the same as "social aggression" which is a dogs desire to gain a higher ranking status, generally a male trait. It is"'middle rank aggression" in younger dogs in their climb to the top. They don't lack confidence but are over confident in their abilty to win and is a sought after trait in protection dogs and police K9's. There is no flight counterpart in social aggression as in defence aggression where in a life or death situation a dog high in social aggression traits is the temperament most likey bring on the fight first.

Dogs too high in social aggression are difficult to handle and want to bite everyone and everything outside of it's pack because it's outside of their pack and dogs of this nature especially in the GSD are only successfully trained with methods of punishment to correct unwanted effects. Dogs high in social aggression respect and submit to handlers that the dog knows can overpower them. They will 'try it on" becoming worse with wins, and corrected with losses. It's a trait of extreme liability in the hands of an inexperienced owner.

Not really Diablo. The danger comes from "tainting all with the same brush". Correct, we cannot read dog's minds but the reasons for their actions must come from a source. Whilst they are not complicated, it's really quite simple....emotion produces reaction (cause and effect).

most assumptions are on the basis of guess work from over enthusiastic minds.

There should be no 'guess work' when working with aggression Diablo, but thinking that the only way to deal with aggression is with a quick, hard leash correction is extremely dangerous and very incorrect!

I am more speaking on the assumption of aggression being "tainted with the same brush" as a fear response which I disagree. Anything can be misconstrude in a round about way to sound like a fear response which is not always the case. Fear aggression in it's true definition is a response caused by the inablity for flight, fearful dogs display distinctive traits in body language and the amount of times I have seen behaviourists diagnose a hard temperament adolecent GSD as a fear biter in dominance aggression is laughable, along with the positive correction methods for such dogs that doesn't work either.

'Xaiver III' date='12th Oct 2009 - 01:44 AM' post='4040653'

I want a dog for a companion and to be a family pet.

With the breeding practices changing (breeders not wanting to hear the word "Schutzhund", if I get a show breed dog from a reputable GSD breeder and take the puppy to a professional dog trainer, would I have a chance of getting a "protection dog" i.e the things I wanted in my initial post?

I suppose it can only be determined by finding a puppy with the right temperment? Wow, I have got a lot to learn about finding the right GSD puppy

A little off topic, but why don't breeders like to test for Schutzhund?

Yeah, this is what I'm worried about and am thinking really hard about getting a puppy from a breeder who Schutzhund the dogs (as kindly mentioned by Nekhbet)

Whilst initially I presumed that breeders who breed "guard dogs" were just dogs who were aggressive, I am now thinking otherwise?

BTW would be kicked out of the GSD thread if I mentioned that I wanted a puppy who's parents were Schutzhund tested?

TEMPERAMENT - The German Shepherd Dog must be of well balanced temperament, steady of nerve, self assured, absolutely free and easy, and (unless provoked) completely good natured, as well as alert and tractable. He must have courage, combative instinct and hardness, in order to be suitable as companion, watch, protection, service and herding dog.

Xaiver,

That's the breed standard (above). You have every right to ask a breeder if their dogs comply and if not, they are obviously breeding, faulty dogs

You also have the rights to ask how they determine compliance without ever trialling their breeding stock in the relevent workability (Schutzhund) tests.

All aggression is fear based, whether it be a rank dog fearful of losing rank, fear of losing a resource or fear of something....it's all fear!

Dogs fearful of things (other dogs/humans etc due to bad experience or lack of socialisation), normally become quite confident in their actions and will therefore project confident actions....but it's all still fear related. This is where mis-diagnosis and mis-management can very easily occur.

Sorry Kelpie-i, too much psycho analysis or someone's opinion???. Dogs can't talk and explain how they are feeling and most assumptions are on the basis of guess work from over enthusiastic minds.

xavier I sent you a PM

I agree diablo, a weak nerved dog is a bigger liability then a well bred working dog. Pressure of any sort can be its biggest enemy and too many times I see flighty, fear biting dogs that are hard to control through weak nerves and mixed bag breeding when it comes to the dam/sires temperaments

Unfortunately here there is too big a distinction between working and pet lines. In Europe the line is blurred - this breed is meant to be both a family pet AND guardian hence the dogs need defense as well as a family friendly temperament, tolerance and stable nerve.

Having experience primarily with GSD's Nekhbet, it's most disappointing to see the amount of breedings undertaken with dogs of faulty temperament considered "pet temperaments" due to their weakness which in my opinion is competely wrong. A weak nerved GSD is something in a pet I would never consider steady enough for a family environment. A "pet temperament" is an excuse for a litter that should have never been bred and this problem in the GSD is escalating as time evolves unfortunately.

If there is something I need to be super reliable, I don't mess around with punishing consequences. I make sure my dog is set for success and reward the hell out of it every single time. Often that will have to mean starting in a near sterile environment and gradually adding distractions. Not every dog takes kindly to punishing consequences for non-compliance. Who could blame them? Some dogs you can't punish during training at all or they shut down and do nothing.

That potentially can work with a dog that has no history of self reward.

If the dog perceives the ingrained self reward higher then your super duper reward what do you do then?

One "super' reliability I require in a good hard temperament high drive GSD is that it doesn't bite people, and the "self reward" of having an aggressive lunge and people back away in fear CANNOT be corrected with a reward high enough to stop the behaviour where a punishment with leash corrections and firmness to teaches the dog that the behaviour is NOT tolerated. Strong nerve GSD's are not sooky dogs and can take the pressure, but in all honesty, I don't know if this method works with all.

I doubt it would work for all dogs showing similar issues. Many dogs (in my limited experience) that show that kind of aggressive behaviour do so out of fear, quite a different motivation to actually wanting the fight.

Not all aggressive dogs are aggressive from fear, of course. Some are predatory. Some are rank driven. I'm not at all suggesting that your dog was fearful, Diablo.

But for those aggressive dogs that are fearful, it seems safer to use mostly positive methods if you can. I've seen several fearful/fear aggressive dogs "fixed" or hugely improved using mostly positive methods - if you teach the dog that there is either nothing to fear, that the fear aggression no longer "works" to get rid of the threat, or that the handler can deal with any threats for them anyway, then there is no longer a reason for the dog to be fearful or aggressive.

I'm not a professional trainer, and don't intend to become one. But I do intend to be a vet in a few years, and I expect to be (rightly or wrongly) first port of call for many clients with problem dogs, and if I can help it I won't be referring those clients to any one-size-fits-all trainers. I'd hate to refer a fearful dog to someone who was going to try to punish the aggression or "dominance" out of it, just like I'd hate to be responsible for referring a very stroppy dog to someone who refused to punish at all even if only-positive methods would take twenty times as long to get just the same result or would risk the behaviour escalating or just not really work at all.

JM(non professional)O

Without seeing a dogs reaction in aggressive tendencies it's difficult to prescribe the method most suitable for that particular dog. Often the reasons why a dog acts aggressively are misdiagnosed that results in an incorrect correction training process.

'Schmoo's boss' date='11th Oct 2009 - 08:20 AM' post='4038973'

HI Diablo

I agree that working protection dogs do have a place , under the control of a competent handler and working police , security and armed forces , but for family homes i do have to question , not the dogs ability to follow his training but the owners ability to handle him nervous owners tend to make for nervous dogs and make mistakes in judgment that can cost their pets their lives ,

Self defence can help people who have suffered this type of trauma to develop confidence and a dog with a confident pack leader will stand not run

People tend to believe that for example, a hard temperament GSD capable of protection work is dangerous to it's owners or family pack and they are not, quite the opposite. In fact they are generally safer in family homes more steady and predictable nerves, don't spook or fear bite and can handle adverse pressure. Sensing fear in their pack they react more voilently and can attack and bite and can also react to things that are not genuine threats when untrained which becomes the liability. Most attack trained police and security dogs live in a family environment and are gentle and affectionate pets within their own family pack.

I was thinking Blueygirl, why not perhaps just keep her on the leash and restrained until the aggression has been resolved?

I suppose you need to think about the chance of an off-leash small dog approaching Blueygirl's leashed dog.

I think you are doing the right thing Blueygirl - you are being a responsible dog owner and preventing your dog from causing any harm to other dogs.

Oh, off leash dogs are at their own destiny, no laws protect off leash dogs from provoking leashed dogs to react, and I didn't consider that side of things either, never crossed my mind. To be honest it may take a few off leash dogs to suffer a nip or two for people to be more responsible restraining their dogs instead of allowing them to run around all over the place as they do and breaking the law into the bargain.

If there is something I need to be super reliable, I don't mess around with punishing consequences. I make sure my dog is set for success and reward the hell out of it every single time. Often that will have to mean starting in a near sterile environment and gradually adding distractions. Not every dog takes kindly to punishing consequences for non-compliance. Who could blame them? Some dogs you can't punish during training at all or they shut down and do nothing.

That potentially can work with a dog that has no history of self reward.

If the dog perceives the ingrained self reward higher then your super duper reward what do you do then?

One "super' reliability I require in a good hard temperament high drive GSD is that it doesn't bite people, and the "self reward" of having an aggressive lunge and people back away in fear CANNOT be corrected with a reward high enough to stop the behaviour where a punishment with leash corrections and firmness to teaches the dog that the behaviour is NOT tolerated. Strong nerve GSD's are not sooky dogs and can take the pressure, but in all honesty, I don't know if this method works with all.

Hi I have at the moment 2 cross cattle dogs and a rottie , having lived with these breeds I have always been disappointed when people have shown fear when walking past my well behaved and placid pets , most dogs will react to aggressive behaviour be that of a human or another dog some will run and some will challenge the aggressor , neither reaction from the dog is under control or safe either for the owner or the aggressive person , would suggest that your dog is your companion and that you might want to attend self defence classes , perhaps if your GSD's boss feels a little more confident then he will to , remember we are there to protect and look after them , we are the smart humans after all

I am sorry Schmoo's boss, but I disagree with your comment advocating that we should be protecting our dogs, taking self defence classes which doesn't suit everyones requirements. Protection dogs do have a role in society and anyone is free to own one if they desire which is not a crime and in some cases owning such a dog for people who have suffered the trauma of home invasions and assaults, a protection dog helps them sleep at night providing the therapy required to help them feel safe again in their own homes. No amount of self defence classes will overcome being woken from sleep with knife held at someones throat where a protection dog can stop such offenders getting in, or at a minimum bark, wake and alert someone to an offender on the premises.

Hi everyone

This thread is really exciting. I can't wait for the results!

My family are considering getting a GSD in a years time (after years of deciding what dog to get )

You guys and gals mentioned (I think it was Jeff Jones?) that essentially getting a trained protective dog is better then a family pet in regards to "protecting" the owner.

Anyway there is only 3 people in my family, but I want a nice, friendly dog who will not bite or be be aggressive to small kids, our friends and essentially most strangers.

However one reason we do want a GSD is to protect our house and us in case of burgulries etc. (Dad goes on a lot of business trips, so often mum and I are alone in the house)

Jeff Jones was talking about training a dog with commands which will make the dog growl and essentially look very scary and menacing towards strangers and a command which stops this behaviour to let the dog know it is ok (saying "watch/growl" and then saying "stand down")?

Just to clarify, am I right in saying this is possible? Is it possible to train the dog to growl and then not too?

Is there any serious implications of training a dog to do this (behavioural and psychological problems)?

The only thing I want the dog to do is to growl and "look" scary BUT I don't want it to attack.

I've looked up some dog training centre sites and they all mentioned an "attack command". I don't want this.

Would I by right in saying that these commands can only be taught by a professional dog trainers only?

Also how would this affect the dogs natural instinct of detecting when it's owner or property is being threatened??

When Kaiser was a younger dog and we did alot of walking at night and early in the morning. If someone was approaching us I would say watch and loosen the lead slightly, he would go from heal to infront of me and put his ears forward and watch the person. It must have been intimidating as most people took a wide berth after this. Once someone was following me, which I was unaware of as I was listening to my ipod. Kaiser stopped at a tree and turned and looked at the person and didn't move until he crossed the road, I like to think he saved me that day.

This is exactly what I want ;) Good boy Kaiser

Did you teach him to do this?

GSD's are a good deterrent to the average criminal due to their reputation in police and protection work as the presence of a GSD can never be determined what it's capabilities may be and everyone knows what a GSD looks like with it's distinctive features.

However, selecting the dog to best suit your requirements is a difficult task when looking for protective qualities as such dogs are instinctively suspicious and stranger aggressive requiring experienced socialising and training to be gentle and friendly from an early age and are difficult for the inexperienced to handle. The softer GSD breedings that are instinctively friendly and gentle can be unsteady in nerve and frighten easily when it comes to the crunch to take a protective stance, will turn tail and run. Having said that though, a dog can easily be trained to bark on command or bark if strangers approach the property which in most cases provides enough deterrent for the job to be done.

GSD litters marketed as hard temperament with police and security type ancestor lines, to be understood by potential buyers in belief of these types answering their protective requirements, they will, but are a lot of dog to handle and train, untrained can be a total liability

My dog has some dog agression issues with smaller dogs which I thought I was handling until recently. I have booked her in for a session with a behaviourist however its not for a litle while yet. I decided to buy a muzzle for her with great reluctance but for the safety of the other dogs and to prevent her possibly ever being labeled dangerous I decided that it was the safest option until I get professional advice. I put it on her for the first time and she hates it. I feel like such a bad owner for having to do this. Will she get used to the muzzle?

Please don't flame me as I alread feel terrible that things have reached this point, Right now I'm just trying to do the responsible and right thing for both her and any other dogs around.

Has anyone else had to do this?

I was thinking Blueygirl, why not perhaps just keep her on the leash and restrained until the aggression has been resolved?

Dogs are not these complicated beings with 2 brains, infact they are very simple creatures with equally simple thought processes...so simple that us humans complicate matters for them by trying to look too deeply into the "why" and "what".

It's not rocket science SK, balance is the key for absolutely everything in life.

Good luck with your boy!!

I agree Kelpie, I think nowdays there is an over use of psychology that doesn't need to be

Firstly the dog is "not" conditioned to lunge at all. The dog is conditioned to listen to me and follow my lead from the first day of training.

But the problem is we're not talking about your dog. We're talking about someone else's dog who has been conditioned, inadvertently, to lunge to the end of the leash when confronted by another dog.

Let me make it clear, I am not arguing against your methods. Although I do things differently, I'm not arrogant enough to want to dictate to others how they do things or deny that their methods are valid or effective. My argument is against the claim that the dog is choosing to be "disobedient" and is "correcting himself".

If you do things your way, by the time he gets to a threshold with another dog, he has two conditioned behaviours - stay on a loose leash and shut up, or run to the end of the leash lunging and barking. If he does the latter, my argument is that it isn't disobedience, it is that one layer of conditioning was stronger than the other. You effectively acknowledge this when you don't just jump in and ask too much of the dog early on. At what point do you get to decide that the dog is being disobedient, rather than just not being ready?

And this is why I make the argument. When the trainer becomes arrogant enough to decide that the dog is being disobedient, a great many misunderstandings occur that do not encourage good, effective training. Some skilled trainers can avoid this, people who get their advice over the internet might not.

Aidan,

If I was to train a dog that had been conditioned to misbehave on the leash in some fashion and not listen to commands like the OP's dog, I would start from scratch on the long line. I wouldn't expose it to encounters with strange dogs and begin the training on leash corrections which is unfair and cruel on the dog. I would train the dog until it was bullet proof in a distraction free environment as I explained before, then introduce distractions when and only when the dog understood and knew the commands.

When the dog does get to a threshold with another dog when introducing that distraction considering that the dog has now been conditioned to listen to me from it's foundation training it has two options, either repond to my "leave it" command or disobey and lunge. If it disobeys and lunges it suffers a leash correction in not so different fashion than your mum as a kid commanding to leave the lollies alone in the supermarket when disobeying her resulted in a smacked bum. It's not that the conditioning to want a lollie overrode mums command to leave it alone causing the child to disobey, it's the conditioning of knowing mum won't clip him across the ear is why he disobeys. Dad will clip him across the ear and the kid hangs on every word that dad says, works the same with dogs.

There has to be a balance of both methods used to train dogs effectively as I said before, neither totally positive or totally negative will work from my experiences.

Erny,

I have heard this before from the US coming from a police K9 trainer in a discussion concerning the differences between the Malanois and GSD in police working roles. It went along the lines of the Malanios being a better worker than the GSD except for traits of unpredictability as you have mentioned which most involved in the discussion agreed upon. Different Malanois lines were mentioned which I am not familiar with, but generally the behaviour was percevied as a genetic disorder in the breed I recall???

'Aidan' date='5th Oct 2009 - 05:28 PM' post='4026968'

Dogs become conditioned to do certain things. The dog who can experience relief by making other dogs go away will keep doing that, he is conditioned to do it. The point I am trying to make is that he isn't making a decision to be DISOBEDIENT, he is doing what has worked in the past. He is doing what he has been conditioned to do.

Aidan,

To understand the leash and choker correction methods, you first must understand the full training process and not focus upon certain aspects without digesting the "whole" system.

Firstly the dog is "not" conditioned to lunge at all. The dog is conditioned to listen to me and follow my lead from the first day of training. The dog is taught various commands in a distraction free environment and learns the commands in a bullet proof fashion prior to distractions being added into the program. The dog then has learned the command and has done it over 100 times or more. For example, the dog is conditioned to know what "leave it" means. When introducing a distraction and keeping in mind the dog's conditioning is to listen to me, the choice to ignor the "leave it" command which is a command that the dog knows and obeys to pursue a distraction is disobedience, 100% pure disobedience that will result in correction and the dog swiftly gets the message what's required of him. The exercise of correction revolves around the dog learning that his choice to ignor known commands doesn't work like putting your hand in the fire it will get burned.

As far as trachea injury and all that over exaggerated bulldust in support of clickers and treats, on a 6 foot leash there is nowhere near the momentum in correction to harm the dog, "fact", that approach is an unfounded mistruth. Sure dogs have sustained injuries with chokers and have died being hooked on fences etc etc, but not from leash corrections adminstered properly I can swear to that. Corrections are "only" administered to the disobedience of commands that the dog knows and understands.