Verdant Amphibian

I have never experienced the grooming of a long coated dog breed however before I moved out of home it was my responsibility to groom the Himalayan cat (who hated it) so I understand the amount of commitment a long coated animal can be. The birmans need regular grooming but their single layer coats don't mat so it's not such a bit deal. With long coated dog breeds how early should they be introduced to a brush to get them used to it? Grooming an animal that hates it is not a pleasant experience and not something I really want to repeat.

I have two birmans so I have no problem with hair around the house - it can't get much worse Grooming time, a couple of hours a week mostly consisting on 10-15 minute snuggly time sessions in the evening.

Shetland Sheepdogs Miniature Poodles Miniature Schnauzer Papillons Aussie Terriers Corgi's Pembroke (the OH doesn't like them much though, he thinks they look silly so he would take a lot of convincing) Jack Russells Cocker Spaniels Keeshond Thanks Ams

I'm in no hurry to get a dog and this question probably could have waited but my other thread seemed to be moving this way and my OH keeps wanting us to discuss this so I would really like some input. Also I understand that some people may have strong feelings about my not having gone through with the adoption of a wei, however I ask that if you want to comment on that you go to my other thread. First about us. Couple with two little girls 2.5yrs and 11mo and two female birman cats. We have a small yard but are quite active, I walk a lot, my OH loves taking a dog for a walk or play when he gets home from work and we go on a lot of trips on weeks (dog friendly ones to the family holiday house at the lake or up camping in the high country). I'm a part time uni student but I'm home the vast majority of the time. What we might like in a dog Size - small to medium. I would love a large dog one day but I don't want to get in a situation with a large dog where I find a behavior problem difficult to deal with because the girls are too little. Good with the kids (supervised of course), Ava is quite gentle she pats softly and she doesn't know you can pick animals up, since our cats hate it and all the dogs she knows are too big - but she is only 2.5 so can do silly things for no apparent reason. Nina is still of the opinion that everything should go in her mouth. So you can see supervision is a must. I have no problem with this though, I watch the girls all the time anyway to make sure the big one is playing nicely with the little one. I'm home most of the time and have plenty of time to spend with a dog so long as it doesn't have to be time without the girls in it. Intelligent/quick to learn - I want to go to obedience and possibly do agility. Having watched my parents-in-law bash their heads against a wall for the last two years doing obedience with their beagle I would prefer something that would not only respond well but most importantly enjoy it. More clingy than aloof - having grown up with dogs that just want to be near you I think I would be unhappy with an aloof dog. Exercise - happy to do an hour to two hours but if something happens and they can only get 30 min they wont be horribly unhappy. We have a small yard but a special doggy sandpit and there will be plenty of doggy toys Friendly with other dogs - we go up bush a lot and there are several dogs up there, all friendly or kept separate and they have a grand time playing together and sniffing all the smells. It would be a shame to have a dog that couldn't enjoy this. We would of course be putting effort into socialization. Watchdog - not necessarily a guard dog at all but I definitely want a watch dog. The cats like the idea of a dog that starts smaller than them but I'm not so fussed about that. Below is a list of dogs that have been mentioned either by my OH, DOL people or myself. Several are probably inappropriate and there are probably many more than could be added to the list. I haven't gone into much depth of research into these breeds yet so I would love some input Shetland Sheepdogs Miniature Poodles Miniature Schnauzer Papillons Aussie Terriers Corgi's Pembroke (the OH doesn't like them much though, he thinks they look silly so he would take a lot of convincing) Jack Russells Cocker Spaniels shar pei Keeshond

SK - If you think crate training Ava would help with toilet training I might give it a go I like the idea of an older dog, I just want one young enough though that the girls can remember the dog before gets old. The OH quite likes the idea of a puppy.

omg I'm in trouble then Ava is a fruit fiend, no citrus in my care is safe. B&B that was the plan. But he was so excitable that it wasn't going to be anything like a quick process and there was too much risk of baby injury in the mean time. If he'd been a couple of years older or a little younger it probably would have been fine. That or if Nina was still a tiny baby because I could have put her up in the rocker or the swing in an out of the way spot in the lounge and started teaching him that she's off limits. Mumof3 (and others with positive parental type comments ) Before I had the girls there were so many things I said about how it would be with my children, I would never tiptoe around the baby, instead I would let him/her learn to sleep through noises - I had a bad sleeper so I tiptoed and shushed my guests. I wasn't going to let them watch TV until they were at least three - now whenever the OH is out of a night time the dulcet tones of the wiggles big red car soothes me while I cook dinner. They also weren't going to stop me from going out and having fun. Last night the OH and I had a big night because we ate chinese on the couch and watched a movie after the children were asleep. Before kids I thought parents seemed rather superior, now... So I really can't cast any stones in regards to non-parental attitudes since I was shocking for it pre-bubbies. Just to be clear to everyone I am in no way accusing people of not understanding parental point of view (I don't know you well enough) I'm just noting how much having children changed my attitudes. SecretKei - It might be possible to seperate the kids using a playpen but I find the idea of putting the kids in a playpen so I can play with the dog intolerable and no baby cages (as he put it) was one of the only things my OH had a strong opinion about with raising the babies. About the girls being knocked over. Both have been knocked over plenty of times. My parents german wirehaired pointer bitch was only one when my eldest girl was born, but she tries to be careful, it was just her bum getting in the way and I can see that Ava is much more confident around dogs than the other kids her age in out mum's group that haven't had much to do with them. Hank was not careful and I was certainly supervising when he jumped over her and scratched her head, since she was playing at my knees it was just so swift I had little time to react. Thanks again for the positive comments. I'm not taking the negative ones personally I feel culpable in this situation. The only thing I worry with posting about a mistake I made is that it might be brought up again. When I do introduce another dog into the family I want to be able to seek advise, brag, discuss etc without worrying about getting flak over this. My OH keeps talking about dogs. He really enjoyed taking Hank up to the bush reserve to play, I think he'd forgotten what it's like to have a dog around so now he's the one who's all eager listing breeds that he thinks might meet our needs. Although when Hank tried to flea his crotch and nipped him right on the end of his... he was not very pleased. The listing thing is quite cute but I wish he'd give it a few weeks. It's funny though, before having a really big dog in the house he referred to little dogs as rat-dogs now his list is full of them - but that may be because I tearfully told him I didn't want to have a big dog until the girls were older. I guess this is what we really want in a dog. Good with the kids (supervised of course), Ava is quite gentle she pats softly and she doesn't know you can pick animals up, since our cats hate it and all the dogs she knows are too big - but she is only 2.5 so can do silly things for no apparent reason. Nina is still of the opinion that everything should go in her mouth. So you can see supervision is a must. I have no problem with this though, I watch the girls all the time anyway to make sure the big one is playing nicely with the little one. I'm home most of the time and have plenty of time to spend with a dog so long as it doesn't have to be time without the girls in it. Intelligent/quick to learn - I want to go to obedience and possibly do agility. Having watched my parents-in-law bash their heads against a wall for the last two years doing obedience with their beagle I would prefer something that would not only respond well but most importantly enjoy it. More clingy than aloof - having grown up with dogs that just want to be near you I think I would be unhappy with an aloof dog. Exercise - happy to do an hour to two hours but if something happens and they can only get 30 min they wont be horribly unhappy. We have a small yard but a special doggy sandpit and there will be plenty of doggy toys Friendly with other dogs - we go up bush a lot and there are several dogs up there, all friendly or kept separate and they have a grand time playing together and sniffing all the smells. It would be a shame to have a dog that couldn't enjoy this. We would of course be putting effort into socialization. Watchdog - not necessarily a guard dog at all but I definitely want a watch dog. The cats like the idea of a dog that starts smaller than them but I'm not so fussed about that. OH keeps mentioning shetland sheepdogs, miniature poodles (strangely for a gsd type man he adores poodles) and miniature schnauzer. He objects to corgis being added to the list but didn't mind papillons or aussie terriers. I'm not sure what else might suit the above requirements or even if the aforementioned dogs do, I really haven't looked into them enough yet. I probably haven't given little dogs enough thought because of having met too many awful little dogs - fault of the owners I know but it's hard to get the preconceptions out of your head.

Unfortunately babies that crawl and are learning to walk need to be on the floor playing most of the time - baring the 2.5hrs of the day she sleeps. Separating the two would have meant the dog would have to be outside, or inside in another room, away from people for all but about 4 hours of the day, which is in no way fair to the dog. Because shutting the baby, whose brain is developing and needs lots of conversation and stimulation, away is not worth mentioning. If I he was already mine I would certainly give more time and get a trainer in etc however this was a week trial (which ran out) and it seemed irresponsible to adopt him when I couldn't be certain I could deal with the problems, particularly because in the intervening time he would need to be separated from the family too often. Yes a smaller dog could have scratched her head, but it's unlikely a smaller dog would have been able to leave bruises quite that deep or to knock her down with such force. Technically the cats can knock her over when they run full tilt through the house playing. But comparatively these are little hurts and kids get hurt. She falls over all on her own often enough, but 30kg+ of force on the other end of a fall is too much. I will feel guilty over my decision to take him on trial despite having some reservations, I wont feel guilty about choosing not to go through the the adoption.

Despite appearances I did actually do my research, I grew up with gundogs and chose a wei over another breed not because of their colour (particularly because getting a rescue I half expected they would be more the dull brown than shimmery silver anyway) but because they have a reputation for being better at obedience and being better watch dogs than gsp's or vizla's and we have the time to spend 1-2hrs on exercise and obedience a day. But I didn't really want an adolescent, up until the point where I met Hank I was being logical, but I liked him so much when I met him and wanted it to be feasible so badly that I acted emotionally and that was a really daft thing to do. He was just too big and boisterous to handle safely around the children, I should have walked the other way after I met him and it would have been better for him and my poor bruised baby if I had. I wont make that mistake again, I have definitely had my object lesson. I also agree that it takes more than a week for a dog to settle in and if it had been any problem other than the kids being injured we would have taken the time to work through it.

voloclydes - He hasn't been fostered. Wei rescue is just facilitating between his current owners who want to give him up and possible new homes. Secretkei - I was given a week trial and I picked him up last sunday. deelee - Weirescue have mentioned that they'd happily keep our application and get in contact with us if they have an older, calmer wei come through. If Nina was bigger I'd definitely stick with it as he just has the most wonderful nature and I really think that he'd mature into the most amazing dog but last night when I was playing with the baby on the floor and he heard a noise outside and ran and jumped over the baby (who was just at my knees) before I had a chance to react, scratching her head and knocking her onto the floor, I was glad I'd decided not to go through with the adoption. To keep the baby safe he'd have to spend so much time outside on his own at that wouldn't be fair to him, I grew up with dogs and we never had an outside dog so the whole idea seems wrong to me. I'll be driving him back in a couple of hours, right now he's curled up next to me being an absolute sweet heart. I do like grey hounds but we spend a lot of weekends taking little family holidays up bush or to the lake so we really want a dog that we'll be able to, eventually, let off lead and I would like a dog that would be a watch dog. The other half and I were chatting a little about it last night - I think he's worried I'm going to mope so he keeps bringing it up. I guess we'll either wait a couple more years, if we decide on a young large breed, or if we don't wait we'll get something smaller or look for an already mature adult. Regardless of size I really want a dog I can do obedience with and possibly agility and enjoys a really good walk and is more velcro than aloof.

SecretKei - unfortunately I've already tried that. He has a sandpit where he loves digging for carrot chunks, a kong and other toys and I do little training sessions with him through the day but the longer he goes without proper exercise the less he concentrates he just gets jumpy and mouthy (which he never otherwise does - he knows it's not allowed) voloclydes - he does fetch and we try to play in the yard but as it's quite small he doesn't really get to run all out. He was quieter the day he arrived, the second day he was more at home and from day three he's just gotten more full on. I think you're right as much as I love big dogs now is not the right time in my life as sad as I am I've felt less anxious since the decision was made. An older dog would probably be fine but I don't want to be in a position again where I can't keep a wonderful dog because the kids are too little for me to safely deal with a behavioral issue. A smaller breed maybe or we'll wait a couple of years - I don't know. The OH and I will have to have a big talk about it in a couple of weeks, I know he wants a dog.

He will be going back. I'm just waiting for a call to arrange when I have to drop him off. All the normal things you would expect. Most of them I can handle, the chewing, the need for exercise, the issues with the kitties, pulling on the lead etc. We have the time to give him a couple of hours exercise a day and we were to be starting obedience classes today. But when something happens and we can't give him a full hour in the morning, he's absolutely uncontrollable, not his fault he's just beside himself with energy, when he's exercised he's brilliant, but when he's not he's dangerously boisterous to have around the kids and I then can't walk him even with the four wheel stroller because I don't have enough control and it's not safe. So he's stuck until my OH gets home so one of us can mind the girls. He's also just too big to be so boisterous around the kids, he's great with the toddler but I'm constantly guarding the baby because she gets knocked over so easily. I understand that any child needs watching at all time with dogs no matter the size - kids, even well behaved kids can do stupid things extremely quickly for no apparent reason so I don't mind the supervising. But this is constant guarding from enormous feet and whipping tail not just heading off the occasional misbehavior.

Please don’t flame me I’m too upset to take that well right now. I don’t really need advice I just need to commiserate I think. I took Hank a huge 14mo wei on a week trial through wei rescue. But he’s not appropriate and I can’t viably change my life around enough to make it suitable for him. Problem is I already adore him, he’s such a beautiful natured boy and I just keep crying. Last night he stole my harry potter cap just to sleep with his nose buried in it, the night before it was my shoe. I know this is why they give the week trial but I just hate that I’ve put wei-rescue to so much trouble but mostly I hate that it’s disrupted Hanks life for that much longer. My OH says this doesn’t mean we can’t get a dog and wei-rescue say they’ll keep us in mind if they have another come through but that doesn’t help at all. After wanting a dog desperately for so long I’m not sure if I want one anytime soon. I just keep thinking that if the girls were older I would have been able to work with Hank.

At the prison near here they're doing the puppy training of assistance dogs. These programs are just wonderful.

Hmm I don't know, given the random things I've been called a snob over as far as I can tell anyone who does their research on a subject instead of just spouting whatever Today Tonight tells them this week is a snob.

Thanks guys. He's being much better than I expected, I must admit I panicked a little when his now former owner mentioned he'd never been inside in his life. I was expecting a few accidents as he got used to our place but I hadn't prepared myself for toilet training from scratch! I walked him up to the reserve where everyone walks their dogs - he then had to pee on everything so we got lots of practice with out toilet command . Currently he's only allowed in the combined kitchen/lounge/dining so I can keep an eye on him and so the cats have the run of the rest of the house. These were taken on wednesday when I got to meet him and decide if I wanted to adopt him, I took some more today but haven't uploaded them yet.

I just brought home Hank, a 14mo rescue Weimaraner for his week trail. I've been given lots of great advice about the issues we knew we would have, walking on a slack lead, not chasing the cats etc. However I only found out an hour ago that he has never been inside in his life, he's a farm dog and thinks the entire world is his urinal (plus he was only desexed on thursday) how do I toilet train him? Also any tips on giving him his first bath since I also just found out that he's never had one?

Is the toddler going to sleep on the floor with his/her Mum or will they be in a portacot?

http://www.news-mail.com.au/story/2010/04/...hot-over-stock/ AN APPLE Tree Creek man is calling for the RSPCA to investigate after his dogs were shot by a neighbour who lost stock in a dog attack last week. Wayne Bragg lost a goat and a kid in a dog attack on his property during the weekend of March 27-28 and his Maremma pup was euthanased as a result of injuries from the incident. Mr Bragg said he was washing his other dog beside a shed about 10.30am on Good Friday, when he heard the sound of dogs growling and barking in his goat paddock. “After all the attacks we’ve had and the one the weekend before, I grabbed my .22 (calibre rifle) and went to investigate,” Mr Bragg said. “These two dogs had our last four goats bailed up in a paddock.” Mr Bragg claimed he shot one dog “in the middle of an attack” and the other as it was trying to escape, because he assumed the dogs had been responsible for the previous attack on his stock. He said he had seen the dogs on his property on at least three other occasions. “They’ve always bolted through different parts of the fence, but after they were shot they went straight down to the corner of the neighbour’s fence,” he said. “So they were the first ones I rang and the dogs turned out to be theirs.” Mr Bragg said he then advised the police and the Bundaberg Regional Council animal control officer of his actions. Neighbour Trevor Roper has admitted one of the dogs was his six-month-old miniature Staffordshire pup, while the other, a similarly aged dog of indeterminate breed, belonged to his grandchildren. “We only heard one shot, then moments later the staffy came in with blood pouring from a nasty wound to the stomach,” he said. “Our initial horror heightened when shortly after, the male dog belonging to our grandchildren crawled into our garage with its leg shattered.” But Mr Roper said he knew the dogs’ natures and, because of their size and age, he did not believe they would pose a threat to any stock. “We’ve lost stock ourselves when we had property on the Sunshine Coast and we genuinely feel for their losses,” he said. “But we are very upset by what has happened and cannot in any way condone what’s been done.” He said he was unaware the dogs had been on the Braggs’ property before. “We are responsible pet owners and if a problem was there, we would have acted had we been advised,” he said. “We always keep our dogs restrained of a night time but none of our remaining pets will get off the property again at any time.” Mr Roper has referred the matter to the RSPCA for investigation.

Thanks for the advice. I'm mostly looking at Weimaraners. I know they take lots of exercise and are slow to mature, my father is a hunter so when I lived at home we pretty much always had a gundog. But this issue has never come up because my parents have a big yard and have never had a only dog, so their puppy's have always had an older dog to play in the yard with which did much to contribute to keeping them fit and healthy. Having thought on the responces I think I could manage to keep a pup happy. There is a large park further up my street that I we could play in using one of the tracking leads (once immunisations were all finished of course). I'd still prefer an adult, I'd love a dog to take on all of my walks, but it's nice to know that if I can't find a suitable adult I might be able to look into getting a pup.

Thanks for the reply. I think I could meet the requirements of an adult dog. I'm mostly concerned that I don't know enough good ways to exercise an energetic dog that's under 12mo when you're still worried about his/her joints forming.

I have been mostly lurking on here for months, eagerly anticipating the time when OH's casual work would turn to full time and I could get a dog. We're pretty set on which breeds we like and have decided we'd ideally like to get an adult which would make the problem void but it's made me curious as to how others have coped. So... If you have a small yard, and a large breed puppy (particularly gundogs), how to you exercise them sufficiently without structured on-lead exercise?