Yesmaam

My experience with high prey driven dogs is that even at a young age ie: 5-6wks old the pup cannot ignore a prey object no matter what it is. Genetics cause the pup to chase no matter what. I breed my own WL GSD's and at 5-6 wks old they bite, pull, grab, hold on, "pig root" and chase just about anything that is thrown in front of them. Genetics is the reason why they do it and all I do is manipulate it to get what I want. I definitely agree that early development is critical but this is more from a sport point of view ie: teaching calm grip early and other behaviours etc.... The theory is that windows can be shut if nothing is done early but if the dog has prey drive it has it and will at least show you something. I also won't waste time with a dog that has low drive as SchH is hard enough without having a dog with low drive to add to your problems.

working in prey drive can be pressure for a dog. Especially when people build it more and more, the dog can't balance and BANG you end up with a lunatic. Yes training does have a part to do with it but if the nerve isnt there to help the dog through it then you have a problem. It's seen also in some Australian bred Malinois, bred for super high drive without the nerve to hold it and you just end up with a nut that is a PITA to train. I know what your talking about Nekhbet but I think its more the case that the prey drive actually enables the dog to go through with the work. I have seen plenty of thin nerve dogs and with the few that make the grade its usually due to a good amount of prey drive ie: if the dog didn't have as much prey drive it would not cope. These types of dogs are usually very hectic but in the end its the massive prey drive that gets them over the line.

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"So I think if you want to say a SL can't do what a WL can, I think you're wrong" I beg to differ and It's not what I think RKD92, it's what is seen right around the world. Do your homework and tell me how many SL compared to WL make the world championships each year..... 5% maybe... If its a lucky year???? To make a world team most countries have qualifying trials. Obviously SL dogs are not making the scores to make the teams or we would see many more. A good dog is a good dog but on average SL don't produce what I think SL breeders think they produce. As far as hips etc in the WL... That comment was rubbish. There is good and bad atm in both SL and WL and no better or worse than each other (with the exception that MOST WL don't have the "roach back" that is commonly seen in the SL).

It can depend. Some 'show' lines with imported or higher drive dogs can still have a decent amount of prey drive, you just wont see it pop up as often or at all in some litters. I guess it depends on what you call decent. I have a showline pup in my SchH/ IPO club that is from show imports with working titles. The dog has very little drive and imo is typical of showline GSD's. Most of the showline GSD's i have seen (be it from imports or ozzie bred) are of a lesser working standard to most of the workingline GSD's I have seen. The same thing is seen around the world as the number of showline GSD's competing at the WUSV's is minimal compared to the number of workingline. Without going into a SL v's WL argument, and back to the topic, I would guess that PP's GSD lacks the genetics to display even an average amount of prey drive that should be in the dog. May be worth cutting your losses and finding another dog to study at Uni if you need something with drive.......

I have no idea, she's from a pound, and in a trial at the uni Ok, then I would assume your GSD is from show/ pet stock which is most likely why she isn't prey driven. Many show and pet quality GSD's are not bred to work so the genetics are lost over time. It started back in the 70's and is well entrenched and not a one off. If your after a GSD that is highly prey driven you would have better luck with a workingline GSD. BTW most workingline GSD's don't look like your typical GSD either. They range in colour from back through to dark sable and usually have much flatter backs. Their temperament is usually completely different to that of a showline GSD. The main focus in the workingline is the working ability and they are bred from generation after generation of success in the Schutzhund arena.

So do choker chains.....

If you need an E-collar to stop a dog from mouthing you while you are playing there is seriously something wrong with either your training or the advice you are being given.

Its all in the genetics PP. A GSD that is bred with high prey drive cannot just sit there if the stimulation is present. Genetics tell it to chase and they can't refuse.... Can I ask is she a showline GSD or workingline GSD?

Proundly supported by "Advance Pet Nutrition", Mia Skogster (Finland) is the 2010 FMBB World Champion and is conducting an obedience seminar on"TRAINING IN DRIVE". The seminar will be held in Brisbane in Feb 2011 at Metro Dogsport Club inc. http://www.metrodogsport.com This will be her only seminar in Australia and if you are a serious obedience competitor then you can't afford to miss this. Saying that, the seminar will also cover raising a puppy for competition through to the polished performance and how to keep your dog up there and recovery techniques after competitions. This IS NOT an IPO seminar, it is obedience only and is open to all dog obedience enthusiasts from ALL DOG TRAINING BACKGROUNDS. If you want to learn from a WORLD CHAMPION then please go to the following link http://www.metrodogsport.com/metro_2010_005.htm Unfortunately, all the dog spots have been taken but spectator spots are still available. **Nb. There will be a closing date around the end of Jan 2011 so don't waste any time securing your position** As soon as it is confirmed I will let you know. Sample bags, T-shirts, guest speaker, morning and afternoon tea provided, Seminar dinner sat night, don't miss this amazing event.

They are nothing new and have been around for years Many of the worlds top competitors and trainers use E collars to some degree. Google E collars and do a bit of research. They are not cruel in the right hands but you can say that about any type of training device.

Just a reminder about the Mia Skogster obedience seminar to be held in Brisbane in Feb 2011. This will be her only seminar in Australia and if you are a serious obedience competitor then you can't afford to miss this. Saying that the seminar will also cover raising a puppy for competition through to the polished performance and how to keep your dog up there and recovery techniques after competitions. Unfortunately all the dog spots have been taken but spectator spots are still available. For those of you who receive the DOGS QLD mag, please refer to the ad on p13. Another ad will be published in the Nov issue. For more info please go to the following link http://www.metrodogsport.com/metro_2010_005.htm

Here you go 1st September 2010 Mr. H. Gent, ANKC Administrator, P O Box 309, Carina, Qld, 4152 Dear Hugh, Re: Removal of FCI Recognised Titles Since the latest fiasco on the ANKC refusing to place legitimate overseas FCI Internationally recognised titles on imported dogs Certificates of Registration, I have as you can imagine been inundated with calls. On the weekend of the 28/29th of August, I held an Executive Meeting of the GSDCA in Melbourne where we discussed this issue and now write to you in regard to this matter. It was unanimous at our meeting that the German Shepherd Dog Council will not accept any decision made by the ANKC to interfere with the Registration Certificates or titles of imported dogs. It was strongly felt that such interference was clearly overstepping the line and mandate of the ANKC whose fundamental purpose is to keep a record of purebred dogs. I don’t know who is responsible for this decision but really, all it achieves is alienating more of the already dwindling fraternity. Would it be pertinent to ask how the Gundog owners would feel if retrieving titles were removed from their paperwork because it offended someone that the dogs actually retrieve a rabbit or pigeon, dead as it may be? I won’t go over old ground on the translation of a foreign language but who ever translated Schutz (protection) into attack, the complete opposite, clearly needs to be re- educated. These titles are a prerequisite for breeding in the country of origin and ensure the character and fit for purpose of the breeds is maintained, which is why it is important that the titles remain on the Registration Certificate for future breeding programs. The GSDCA verifies through the SV, a large majority of titles claimed by the owners of imported GSD’s, and have absolutely no problem recognising and including those verified titles on paperwork such as advertising, Breed Surveys etc. It is of paramount importance that these legitimately earned titles remain on the pedigree/registration certificate. Neither the ANKC nor the GSDCA have any right to interfere with such documentation. Another important thing to consider here is, should there ever be an incident involving one of these imports, the ANKC could be perceived as aiding an owner to conceal the fact that an animal has such titles in order that they don’t have to comply with certain state laws such as described in the Dangerous Dog Act in Victoria. I would urge that before anymore damage is done, the ANKC takes this item off the October Conference agenda and makes an immediate announcement that they will continue to include verified titles gained overseas on the Certificate of Registration. The GSDCA would like to offer assistance to the ANKC in the verification of GSD titles gained overseas, if required. I’m sure that the same offer would apply from all similarly affected breeds. Your earliest response would be appreciated. Yours sincerely, Bruce Knight ………………….. Bruce Knight President German Shepherd Dog Council of Australia Inc

No - but it means another org could apply for FCI membership. No - they cant Ive had correspondence with their boss cocky and all but the ANKC are locked out even thoughthey are not full members. Correspondence with the FCI????? as there would be no point asking the ANKC would there..........

Hugh (and Dogs NSW) have also been asked to attend the AUSC Nationals the following weekend (16, 17, 18 OCT) It will give him a much better snapshot of where the sport is at these days compared to 20yrs ago For more info please go to http://nationals2010.sportdogaustralia.com...ls_2010_005.htm

Y. deClerqc (FCI president) confirmed that ANKC is an Associate and that was only a couple of weeks ago.

Your kidding aren't you...........

"As for only abotu 10 working line Malinois breeders in Australia - are you kidding me. Obviously you know very little if you think there are only 10, I can think of more then that off the top of my head plus more I could research for you. " Well I did say "at a guess"........ Please fill us in.....

C'mon guys, we need to stay focussed to the task and we need to work together on this ok. Lets not take things out of context as it is so easy to do with email etc...and lets not antagonise each other..... Leave that for other posts lol...........

And http://www.rsv2000.de/de/1/Startseite.html?sid=jK6SvBB60jnyA FCI and VDH members It can be done if we want it that way. I would support a new Australian registry as I am, becoming very disillusioned with the ANKC and the path it is taking. I would much prefer an organisation that upholds the FCI rules and regs and supports all FCI recognised activities. Who knows, maybe it will happen.... It could squash the ANKC if it became powerful enough........... Imagine that!

http://gsscc.ca/home.aspx A club like this would be good.

[/qoute]I also don't know of anyone involved with working line Malinios as someone suggested in this thread, that are not concerned with working titles being removed from their pedigrees Malinios titles are often more difficult to search for and confirm than GSD titles under the WUSV and I would think it of greater importance that Malinios titles are retained in their pedigrees. Don't take it the wrong way. WL mal breeders are very interested in whats going on. The hurdel will be trying to rally up support from the individual mal clubs as they dont have a national body like some other breed clubs. Hey, we all could be wrong here but its a lot harder to table the subject at separate meetings and get the same result we are looking for....

I would love to know who said that. There are enough working line Mal breeders in Australia to make noise trust me. The other problem is that unlike other breed clubs the malinois doesn't have a national body like the GSDCA, they only have individual state clubs and operate separately. Re: WL malinois breeders......at a guess less than 10 in the country (and thats probably being modest). Make some noise, yes but to what effect when there are so few and who in the state malinois clubs would listen...?????

From: Australian National Kennel Council [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, 26 August 2010 8:52 AM To: DOGS NSW; DOGS NT; 'DOGS QLD - Gary Paul'; DOGS QLD - Rob Harrison; DOGS SA; Elizabeth White; Jo Cerda; DOGS WEST; [email protected]; TCA Cc: 'Hugh' Subject: FW: National Database - Titles on Imported Dogs and their Pedigrees Importance: High ATTENTION: ALL MEMBER BODIES We refer to our email of 18 August (see below) and request that titles which may or have been removed from the pedigrees of any imported dog are to be reinstated immediately until this matter has been resolved at the October Conference. From: Australian National Kennel Council [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Wednesday, 18 August 2010 11:47 AM To: DOGS NSW; DOGS NT; 'DOGS QLD - Gary Paul'; DOGS QLD - Rob Harrison; DOGS SA; DOGS VICTORIA; DOGS VICTORIA-Jo Cerda; DOGS WEST; [email protected]; TCA Cc: 'Hugh' Subject: FW: National Database - Titles on Imported Dogs and their Pedigrees Importance: High ATTENTION: ALL MEMBER BODIES Please note that the directive circulated via email on 15 July 2010 (see below) is to be held in abeyance until further discussion at the forthcoming October 2010 ANKC Conference. We ask DOGS Victoria to remove the notice from their website as soon as possible.