m-sass
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Posts posted by m-sass
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Peter (surname?) from dogs NSW on the seven morning show this morning talking about how the country needs national dangerous dog laws like the ones in Victoria but not BSL as it doesn't work.. We need to focus on the individual dogs that are an issue and not a whole breed as BSL doesn't work.. It's been tried lots of times and failed...
Also the change in law means that instead of just the $11,000 fine, the owner could get up to 6 months in prison...
My heart breaks for the Chol family..
He said BSL doesn't work because most of the offending dogs are crossbreeds which comes back to the BYB's who they need to be targeting IMHO.
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From what you've said it doesn't sound like his behaviour was out of line. If the other dog was barking and snapping at him he has a right to defend himself, Cocoa did the same thing today.
What
dog aggression is out of line unless you want to train the dog to fight the dog needs a damn good correction and put back in it's place.........the only one who does the fighting is the handler and the dog needs to learn that. Too many dog owners try and place discrimintory reasoning when a dog is allowed to react and when they are not, ideally unless you want a full on fight to death to occur down the track, any bristle up's need to be corrected and stopped.
:rofl: :rofl: If you punish a dog for warning of it's intentions you get a dog that "snaps" "for no reason".
By punishing the dog for communicating in correct 'dog language' you are teaching the dog not to exhibit the behaviour which allows the intelligent owner to read their dog and act appropriately. The dog learns not to do something which causes it to be punished, which shows that on the whole dogs are considerably more intelligent than some DOL members.
Yes, the people who can't rehabilitate dog aggression successfuly generally say that I agree
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They couldn't, under the laws in place at the time. I also wonder if he was perhaps not a suitable or even a willing carer for a large strong dog, just convenient for his son who was the actual owner. No way to tell without the details that will never make it into press, but it sure seems that there was a lot of irresponsibility and/or ignorance going on there. What a horrible set of circumstances, and most horrible of all for people who didn't have anything to do with making the decisions about this dog's care and containment, the Chol family. Remorse and a fine seem so very, very inadequate.
I think you touch on the real issue. My bet is that this dog was a backyard dog, probably very rarely(if ever) excercised, probably never socialised. This is where the politicians should be looking rather than focussing on breed. If every owner was forced to prove they had attended certified training/socialisation and be required to pass a dog ownership license test, these incidents would be massively reduced. Unfortunatley our politicians are populatist and not really interested in real solutions. Very sad for all concerned, especially those family pets that are well trained and socialised now getting PTS for no reason, other than the way they look.
What the politicians are looking at is getting rid of crap dogs that don't need specialised raising/training/socialising to keep the community safe. Aggression isn't the default behaviour of good stable dogs who are poorly raised and managed, active aggression is in the genetics of the dog often masked by socialisation and training are the dogs who suddenly bite someone which seems out of character where in fact it's not and the same dog's default behaviour is aggression in it's raw form. A good stable dog has enough brain clarity to determine what's a threat and what's not and adjust accordingly to passive and voilitile environments, clearly it seems that not enough people have experienced good dogs to know the difference?
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I've been having great fun with the camera :) I've started doing lots of reading on how to work it and it's got me thinking about lenses. I reckon in hindsight I would have been better off getting 18-105mm & 55-300mm kit rather than the 18-55mm & 55-300mm that I got, because the 18-105mm would give me a greater range without having to change lenses
I didn't think of it that way at the time lol. Too late now but just wondering how do you figure out what lenses you need? I don't want to end up with a hundred different lenses, just a few really good ones. So am I right to assume that I should use the kit ones and see what focal lengths I end up using the most, then use that to judge what type of lens I should aim for in the future?
As a side note: LOVE the 50mm prime :D I took some nice shots of a friend's dog and she went out and bought the same camera within the week! But she got a 30mm f1.4 sigma lens instead of the 50mm Nikkor and is now asking me how close did I have to stand when I took those pics of her dogs? Because she is having to stand closer. I guess the guy at the shop recommended that one to her because its good for portraits? I told her what I had when she ordered but the shop person told her 30mm would be better
.Yes, I found the 18-55mm lens short on range for general doggy action type shots having the same kit with my old Nikon D80.........you would put the 55-300mm on then the dogs would be getting in to close and vice versa with the shorter lense. I bought a D7000 late last year with the 18-105mm and found it heaps better in range almost perfect for the distance that my dogs will zoom around.......if the 18-55mm is annoying, you would love the 18-105mm :)
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From what you've said it doesn't sound like his behaviour was out of line. If the other dog was barking and snapping at him he has a right to defend himself, Cocoa did the same thing today.
What
dog aggression is out of line unless you want to train the dog to fight the dog needs a damn good correction and put back in it's place.........the only one who does the fighting is the handler and the dog needs to learn that. Too many dog owners try and place discrimintory reasoning when a dog is allowed to react and when they are not, ideally unless you want a full on fight to death to occur down the track, any bristle up's need to be corrected and stopped. -
Gameness in a dog is a trait I consider as an uncontrollable state of active aggression without fear of consequence.
Just as i suspected, you don't understand what the term gameness actually means but you go around spouting about how the gameness in certain breeds is causing attacks, which is a load of nonsense. A large dog attacking a small dog does not show any level of gameness imo. Gameness is the willingness to win no matter what the odds, and it doesn't just relate to fighting.
No matter what the odds is the same as without fear of consequence, I am well aware of what gameness is between a dog that has it the one's who haven't
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The ANKC is opposed to breed specific legislation
Really.........why won't they recognise the APBT......sound's like they are practicing BSL to me?
Regulate Dog Breeders. Breeders play an important role in the temperament of the dogs they produce and sell. Irresponsible breeding plays a very important role as the mating of two dogs with poor and/or unacceptable temperaments will no doubt result in puppies with unstable temperaments. Moreover, if irresponsible breeders do not screen the individuals they sell their dogs to, you have the potential combination of ill-breed dogs in the hands of irresponsible owners. A disaster in the making.Yes that's a good idea
My question is what about the person who bought a lab x staffy from the pound before the rules and now has a dog that fits the registered description?The pound should be responsible enough to know the laws and be in loop of knowing where these things are heading, the spotight has been on the Pitbull for 20 years. Pitbull look a likes have been declared before long before these recent laws with restrictions imposed on them.
yea its pretty disturbing isnt it! that old mans dog clearly looked like a labx even though his dog is not a dangerous dog who knows the legal fees he now needs to pay in order to just get his dog back absolute pigs!Who's faults that??. The old man could have avoided all of that distress by choosing breed that isn't banned, it still boils down to choices
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AN Australian bulldog that bit the face of a nine-year-old boy as he peered over a fence at Port Lincoln has been put down.
Problem is it's always the same crap involved 9 times out of 10, whatever an Australian Bulldog is, but another "good" dog that can't determine what's a threat and what isn't like little Ayen's killer, what was last weeks, oh another Mastiff X thing that breaks it's collar, kills a little dog, injures another and bites a lady........seriously what do these mongrels think they are protecting for the necessity to kill and people can't understand why laws are tightening up on these "type" of dogs
Dogs with serious foggy headed aggression are hard to handle and difficult to train for novice or irresponsible owners and although I agree in principal that the deed should over ride the breed, but some innocent person or other animal will be the recipient of the deed for action to follow and preventing the deed caused by these half arsed breedings is what scooping up this type of dog is about to save the innocent recipients of the deed from suffering.
So we don't agree with the random BYB's breeding crap dogs, but we are supposed to fight to save their products??, we either support BYB's or we don't and sorry I don't, I hate them passionately and always have done whether they are farming pet shop oodles or producing junk yard guard dogs they are all the same dogs with a different leg action.
So I suppose this http://www.dailyadvertiser.com.au/story/143478/puppy-killed-by-vicious-dalmatian/ is just a one off attack by a non aggressive breed so it is okay? Because Dali's heads aren't normally foggy with aggression.
We aren't fighting to save BYBers and their over bred dogs. We are fighting to save certain breeds of dogs who are being discriminated against based on appearance. BYB's over breed many breeds of dogs, that isn't going to stop until legislation changes. You may not like bull breeds, but that is no reason for them to be eradicated.
Laws like this are just the beginning It is bull breeds now, what is going to be next? Your head just seems to me to be foggy with hatred, maybe you need to channel your aggression into fighting BSL with the rest of us.
You are not fighting to save certain breeds at all as the dogs people are fighting over are all BYB's of no specific breed as such that have no recognised standard. It's not the beginning of anything as the precident on what will be next was set with the Amstaff's exclusion from BSL although it's essentially a Pitbull of some degree. When a court determines that an Amstaff is a Pitbull and then specifically the Amstaff is excluded from BSL and not added to the list proves the point of where things are heading and confirms that ANKC recognised breeds are safe. If breed restrictions were on the agenda, the Amstaff would have been done and dusted..........and what happened??, the Amstaff being a recognised breed was excluded like any other recognised breed would be in the same instance. If they did for example try and add Dalmations onto the BSL list and ban them suddenly, the Amstaff sets the legal precident to overturn the decision immediately.
Ask the question again what breed could be next?..........any breed or mixture of that is not ANKC recognised, again the choice is in the hands of the consumer if you want a dog that the rangers won't be scooping up, buy papered from a registered breeder or choose a cross breed or un-papered dog that doesn't resemble a restricted breed..........how hard is that seriously??
it's not hard at all. The only problem is that a lot of the numb nuts that want to own a "tough guy dog" are rejected as suitable owners by registered ethical breeders of Am Staffs.They have no choice but to go to the BYBs to get their "land shark". BYBs are accountable and should be stopped.
True story.......one of these numb nuts got to see a trained security dog that a working Rotty breeder had recently used at stud. The numb nut told the breeder that his attacked trained Rotty was no good because he could pat the dog as he sat by the breeders side, he was hoping to see the dog try and take his arm off, Suffice to say that the breeder wouldn't sell a pup to this idiot anyway, but yes, there are plenty of numb nuts out there who want aggressive and tough dogs and it's the BYB's who are producing and supplying them and finding the aggression required from Bully type dogs.
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The idiots that churn these dogs out are accountable yes.
The idiots that then go and buy their tough guy dog from one of these idiots are equally accountable.
And yes, ignorance is no excuse where the law is concerned.
Why is it so easy to acquire a tough dog?
Anti BSL campaigners are always so quick to gang up and tear people down.
I've been on this forum before suggesting to make it more difficult to own certain types of dogs, but you all didn't want to hear that.
I'd like to know what strategies anti BSL people have come up with so the general community is able to feel safe around potentially dangerous dogs.
I have a friend that owns a pitty and he even says himself that his dog will kill mine given the chance. He's very dog aggressive, and he's not the first dog aggressive one I've met.
It's all well and good to go on about the reasons as to why BSL isn't working, what is your solution?
Excellent post, hopefully some ant-BSL crusaders can provide some answers?
Are you like m-sass, wanting all crossbreeds dead?Are you pro-BSL to the extent that anything that looks like a pitbull, no matter what its actual background, is sent off to the slaughterhouse?
I am missing something and I hope you can explain what you mean.
No I don't want all crossbreeds dead at all and have never made reference to such either. The point I am making is about choices and to be honest I am sick and tired of people whinging about BSL because they have chosen a Pitbull type of dog.........what do they expect when playing with restricted breeds or dogs that resemble them, it's no different than people whinging that the rotten cop got them for drunk driving and pissy drivers whinge about that too like the anti BSL crusaders do, same thing.
I have absolutely no problem with groups fighting for the Pitbull's release from BSL or for the abolishment of BSL, but in the meantime, the law is the law and if the Pitbull and their look alikes are off the register, don't have dogs like that "until" the laws are successfully ammended "FIRST".
As far as crossbreeds go, I guess I have had the pleasure and hold the highest respect for the amount of work and money that dedicated breeders put into their work to produce good breed examples. I have seen imported dogs that have cost a fortune desexed because the owner/breeder didn't like a trait the dog produced, I have seen the endless amount of work which is a lifestyle to these dedicated breeders, I have seen the money wasted and I have seen the success, the failure and the heartache, but my God, do some dedicated breeders try to produce the best they can an I take my hat off to them in complete admiration of that dedication. What's the BYB do in comparison..........put a male and female together and I should respect their breeding skills and products..........are you joking
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AN Australian bulldog that bit the face of a nine-year-old boy as he peered over a fence at Port Lincoln has been put down.
Problem is it's always the same crap involved 9 times out of 10, whatever an Australian Bulldog is, but another "good" dog that can't determine what's a threat and what isn't like little Ayen's killer, what was last weeks, oh another Mastiff X thing that breaks it's collar, kills a little dog, injures another and bites a lady........seriously what do these mongrels think they are protecting for the necessity to kill and people can't understand why laws are tightening up on these "type" of dogs
Dogs with serious foggy headed aggression are hard to handle and difficult to train for novice or irresponsible owners and although I agree in principal that the deed should over ride the breed, but some innocent person or other animal will be the recipient of the deed for action to follow and preventing the deed caused by these half arsed breedings is what scooping up this type of dog is about to save the innocent recipients of the deed from suffering.
So we don't agree with the random BYB's breeding crap dogs, but we are supposed to fight to save their products??, we either support BYB's or we don't and sorry I don't, I hate them passionately and always have done whether they are farming pet shop oodles or producing junk yard guard dogs they are all the same dogs with a different leg action.
So I suppose this http://www.dailyadvertiser.com.au/story/143478/puppy-killed-by-vicious-dalmatian/ is just a one off attack by a non aggressive breed so it is okay? Because Dali's heads aren't normally foggy with aggression.
We aren't fighting to save BYBers and their over bred dogs. We are fighting to save certain breeds of dogs who are being discriminated against based on appearance. BYB's over breed many breeds of dogs, that isn't going to stop until legislation changes. You may not like bull breeds, but that is no reason for them to be eradicated.
Laws like this are just the beginning It is bull breeds now, what is going to be next? Your head just seems to me to be foggy with hatred, maybe you need to channel your aggression into fighting BSL with the rest of us.
You are not fighting to save certain breeds at all as the dogs people are fighting over are all BYB's of no specific breed as such that have no recognised standard. It's not the beginning of anything as the precident on what will be next was set with the Amstaff's exclusion from BSL although it's essentially a Pitbull of some degree. When a court determines that an Amstaff is a Pitbull and then specifically the Amstaff is excluded from BSL and not added to the list proves the point of where things are heading and confirms that ANKC recognised breeds are safe. If breed restrictions were on the agenda, the Amstaff would have been done and dusted..........and what happened??, the Amstaff being a recognised breed was excluded like any other recognised breed would be in the same instance. If they did for example try and add Dalmations onto the BSL list and ban them suddenly, the Amstaff sets the legal precident to overturn the decision immediately.
Ask the question again what breed could be next?..........any breed or mixture of that is not ANKC recognised, again the choice is in the hands of the consumer if you want a dog that the rangers won't be scooping up, buy papered from a registered breeder or choose a cross breed or un-papered dog that doesn't resemble a restricted breed..........how hard is that seriously??
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Hey m-sass, according to a researcher at Monash university, there have been 33 deaths in Australia by dog attack since 1979. Of those only 2 have been caused by pitbulls or pitbull crosses(including Ayen Chol). How do you possibly justify your hatred?
ETA : can you please explain what you believe is "gameness" as you clearly think this trait is a major problem
Perhaps you should consider passing the information regarding the Monash university research onto the Victorian government, if that's already been done, the information doesn't seem to have provided a BSL resolution?
Gameness in a dog is a trait I consider as an uncontrollable state of active aggression without fear of consequence.
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Dogs can be territorial. Kid should not have been sticking his head over the fence. The media reports whatever gets a headline that is why its always pitbulls did this and pitbulls did that. You'll never hear of chihuahua bit child on the face and child required stitches at hospital. The bulldog that you mention may have been the friendliest dog when out in public, but didn't like strangers in his yard. You'll never know because the media is too focused on the fact that it bit some one. Also if the laws are over turned that will allow ethical responsible breeders to start breeding quality dogs.
The sensationalism I see in bite reports by the media amounts to the damage inflicted and the reason I think Pitbull type dogs appear more often than other breeds is that they do the most damage to make a story out of. There have been other breeds involved in the more serious attacks, we had the Labrador last year who attacked 4 people, we have had a couple of Husky type dogs, a Rotty maybe the Chihauhua bites that required a bandaid and kiss from mummy to make it all better doesn't create media ratings, but I don't think by any means if a Miniture Poodle killed a baby in it's pram that the incident wouldn't reach the media, it would be on the front page as Ayen Cohl's death appeared just the same.
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Some pounds will get "suspect dogs" legally breed assessed so they'll be safe from BSL in NSW
At the moment yes, but whether it remains that way is something to consider for the future as the fact is as far as I am aware, you can't tell legally or professionally whether a cross is Pitbull or Amstaff with a dog of unconfirmed/unknown parentage??. However for the purpose of this thread my advice going Amstaff is to buy papered from a registered breeder to safeguard against potential problems down the track.
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Pseudo BSL based on appearance is just plain stupid.
I would be plain stupid to expect people to believe the dog pictured here is a Cocker Spaniel? Apperance is in 99% in all cases how everyone determines breed, so how can we all accept on a daily we basis we think to ourselves "oh there is a GSD, a Lab, what ever what ever", but the council is not allowed to thing "oh there's a Pitbull"??
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Don't forget there's plenty of Amstaffs in need at pounds as well. There are downsides to getting a dog from the pound, you will never have papers for the dog, which can present a problem for Am Staffs in some areas. Many councils however, won't interfere provided a dog never comes to their attention for any reason. I am not sure what the situation is in Brisbane.
Blacktown pound in Sydney is where I got my dog, there are always so many Am Staffs in there. Its a tragedy that so many good looking, healthy dogs with great temperaments are put to sleep. Here is a link to the current list at Blacktown pound, lots of Am Staffs, as usual.
http://www.dolforums.com.au/topic/239871-blacktown-pound-week-beginning-23072012/
In checking rescues, be aware that rescuers and pounds usually don't have access to pedigrees so American Staffordshires may be mislabelled as Staffy crosses or other similar variations, and unrelated cross breeds may be incorrectly labelled Amstaff.
Closer to you, I just did a very quick search of QLD animal rescue. I didn't go through them all, there's far too many, but here is a small selection you might be interested in:
http://www.petrescue.com.au/view/148652
http://www.petrescue.com.au/view/168536
http://www.petrescue.com.au/_feed/view/?animal=131939
http://www.petrescue.com.au/view/162626
http://www.petrescue.com.au/view/153572
http://www.petrescue.com.au/view/164698
http://www.petrescue.com.au/view/168433
http://www.petrescue.com.au/view/168148
Unbelievable..........so how do we determine these dogs are not Pitbull's to get scooped up in the BSL system.......anything Amstaff is sheer stupidity IMHO to purchase unpapered in this legislative climate, if the ranger grabs your dog you have been warned
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The americas have a lot of Curs they're part of their history. They're not AKC recognised by they do have standards and their own registration. From the looks of it there is predictability in the breeding but they are a working dog. I think it's a great idea to get some of the purebred workers in from other countries that are generations ahead of us in breeding
Looks like another good candidate to get scooped up in the restricted breed system.
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You know M-Sass - I agree with you 100% that the people breeding pit bulls and unpapered bull breeds in Victoria are f**king morons. Agree 100%. Anyone who would bring a dog into the world that could meet the standard is not doing it for the dogs.
But that doesn't mean I won't keep fighting for the poor dog that doesnt deserve to die because of the size of its head. And it certainly doesn't mean I'll just say 'oh well, pit bulls
Are banned and that's the law' and then denigrating the people who are against the laws when these dogs are being killed like you seem to do.
It makes me want to fight even harder to overturn these laws because then we WILL have some great breeders breeding again. And dogs will not be killed because of their appearance.
I couldn't agree more, it is the fools that are breeding these dogs that need to be hunted down and punished not the dogs.
Once these dogs are bred responsibility needs to be on the owners to make them good canine members of society. Most people who rescue Bull Breed type dogs are very much aware of training and socialisation and know what potential these dogs often have, it just needs to be nurtured and trained like any other breed or type of dog.
Make Pit Bulls legal and a lot of these bybers will lose interest in breeding.....
I absolutely refuse to believe that dogs are born bad m-sass, there are no dogs on this planet that dont deserve a chance once they have been brought into the world. I certainly dont support bybers or those people who breed cross breeds but I will not condemn the dogs produced by them.
AN Australian bulldog that bit the face of a nine-year-old boy as he peered over a fence at Port Lincoln has been put down.
Problem is it's always the same crap involved 9 times out of 10, whatever an Australian Bulldog is, but another "good" dog that can't determine what's a threat and what isn't like little Ayen's killer, what was last weeks, oh another Mastiff X thing that breaks it's collar, kills a little dog, injures another and bites a lady........seriously what do these mongrels think they are protecting for the necessity to kill and people can't understand why laws are tightening up on these "type" of dogs
Dogs with serious foggy headed aggression are hard to handle and difficult to train for novice or irresponsible owners and although I agree in principal that the deed should over ride the breed, but some innocent person or other animal will be the recipient of the deed for action to follow and preventing the deed caused by these half arsed breedings is what scooping up this type of dog is about to save the innocent recipients of the deed from suffering.
So we don't agree with the random BYB's breeding crap dogs, but we are supposed to fight to save their products??, we either support BYB's or we don't and sorry I don't, I hate them passionately and always have done whether they are farming pet shop oodles or producing junk yard guard dogs they are all the same dogs with a different leg action.
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Given the number of people i see every day who believe that-
- the legislation only applies to dangerous dogs
- the legislation only applies to dogs that ARE pit bulls
Or the people who say "what legislation"?
I think ignorance is an issue- maybe not an excuse- but it is an issue that needs to be addressed. People DON'T realise that any dog that looks a certain way can be deemed restricted. They are not told at point of sale, they are not told when they register their dogs- and the last time i heard anything on TV or radio was ages ago.
Then when there is publicity on TV and radio- there is so much scaremongering that again, people believe it's about 'those nasty pit bulls' or 'dogs taht bite people'.
And what for those people who bought dogs before this legislation came in truly believing their dogs were of XYZ non restricted cross breed?
The breeders/suppliers are the people I believe are at fault, they are the people who need to know the legislation like a used car dealer knows they can't sell a car with bald tyres or brakes that don't work. The shouldn't be cross breeding a Lab with a Staffy, cross the Lab with a Whippet if they have to or create another doodle, but not a Staffy, Amstaff, American Bull Dog or anything of that type of Molosser breed in this present regulated climate. Rescues shouldn't be selling Pitbull look a likes either sad as it is, anyone of credibility dealing dogs should not be leading naive public into these positions where their dogs are vulnerable to seizure, better still perhaps certain suppliers should be permitted to sign off on a dog from a temperament test??.
Personally I would like to see in conjuction with a dog determined as a restricted breed is next question: where did you get it from , who supplied that dog and where possible the breeder/supplier cops a fine for supplying a restricted breed of dog.......there needs to be accountability for breeding and supply which may stop some of the reckless and irresponsible breeding practices in the process??
However, I do not agree with you that ignorance in no excuse! The unfortunate fact is that the vast majority of people don't know about half the issues relating to dogs. If the majority of people understood the issues surrounding puppy farms, they would not exist. If you can't get the general population to understand the issues regarding puppy farms, how can you expect the average man in the street to identify a staffy cross compared to a pitbull, or even know what potential issues they may face down the track by buying/rescuing a certain dog? In fact how can you expect even those of us who do take a significant interest in the issues to really determine what is a staffy cross or what is a pitbull?Ignorance being no excuse is a standard function of law........I didn't know my dog needed a leash because she has a great recall??, I didn't know I couldn't drive half pissed??....... I didn't know about restricted breeds won't stop the ranger scooping up your dog??.......unfortunately that's how it works. People research what new TV they are going to buy and where they are going to buy it from, they need to apply the same forethoughts into buying a dog and doing so avoids all these problems some people are facing.
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People need to take resposibility for their own choices and stop blaming other people for the crackdown on restricted breed type dogs IMHO. Whether a dog is a Pitbull or whether it is not is all nonesense really as the point is, Pitbulls have been a restricted breed for 20 odd years and people need to think before they buy, aquire whatever??. Any random Bully type crossbreed could be deemed as a Pitbull so why on earth get a dog like that in the first place and leave yourself and your dog vulnerable to mis identifications, seizures, dangerous dog declarations etc etc, it makes no sense to me.
If you like Bully breeds, get a proper one from a registered breeder, one that can be verified what it is, one that is safe from these laws, if you like to rescue a dog, get a nice Greyhound or something that looks nothing like a Pitbull, no one needs a dog that replicates a restricted breed, there are plenty of options out there to choose from and avoid these situations, people need to think a bit harder about the choices they make?
It's not a case of right or wrong whether it should be ok to own a Pitbull or a crossbreed that looks like one, it's a case of the law determining them to be a restricted breed and the bottom line is get caught with one and you could be facing a drama and heartache, so why go there I ask then whinge when the wheels fall off, they have been trying to get rid of Pitbull's for 20 years, it was only a matter of time before the axe fell??
What right does a government body have to restrict a breed without hard evidence that there is a universal hardwiring of the brain that pitbull and pitbull types are human/dog aggressive? im sorry to inform you but GSD, Rotties and Dobes have all been placed in this category before, its just the cop out of the century really, also who are you or anyone else to tell people what breed they can/should be buying/adopting? that is absolutely disgraceful what's next? where do the restrictions stop? its a bandaid solution for a problem that lays with the human race not the k9 one, and I dont think you are anyone to tell people to stop fighting for what they believe in, and that is the culling of innocent dogs for the way they look! next 10 years it WILL be another breed in which the minority will destroy and the majority will have to pay the consequence.
And FYI Pitbulls and American Staffords were the same breed 70 odd years ago, one was bred for show one a pit....... they are not bred for a pit anymore and in some countires they are recognised as a breed, if they were recogised in australia and if they were to be bred ethically and legally, breeding for temprement would have to me a major factor like with any other breed.
Breeding is not all about how the dog physically meets he standard but it is mentally as well, agression can be bred into ANY breed if done so by dim bats.
That's not the point, it's like arguing that at a 0.05 blood alcohol level, your reflexes as a driver are better than the old dear down the street who's 85 years old driving stone cold sober..........it's probably true but doesn't provide a defence under the law as an excuse for pissy driving. When the law is place it doesn't have to be right or wrong, you either abide or you don't and if you don't abide and get caught, cop it on the chin.
I don't disagree that the Pitbull isn't a good breed, infact the "proper" Pitbull's I have met were all good dogs, but releasing the Pitbull from BSL and disregarding the laws by owning and breeding them contrary to the laws regardless because you have a bee in your bonnet over it with a do as you please attitude IMHO is the wromg stance to take and is the reason the anti BSL crusader never make any headway towards their goals, the laws are getting tougher on restricted breeds not slacker, so all the bravado of breeding what you like coz the government are all idoits and everyone can get stuffed isn't working is it??
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Why can't a responsible ethical breeder breed Pit Bulls? You do know they're still allowed in some areas?
Are all the breeders who have ever bred a Pit Bull morons?
You'll probably say they aren't a recognised breed but neither are Koolies (just one example), are all Koolie breeders morons?
In most areas Pitbull's are supposed to be desexed and in the areas that may allow the breeding of them, they are obviously not scooping them up for seizure so it's not really relevent to the discussion. I don't think Koolies are on the resticted breed lists or require to be registered as dangerous dogs are they, in other words the Koolie's future isn't at threat so why would I think a Koolie breeder would be a moron?
If the control area where a breeder lives requires Pitbull's to be desexed and they breed them contrary to those laws IMHO they are absolute morons, yes!!
m-sass- when you say dogs of pit bull appearance- what exactly do you mean? I adopted one dog 4 1/2 years ago and another 6 years ago that i did not believe were pit bulls however, according to the Victorian standard- they could be in trouble. This is the problem with going after dogs of certain types and not certain behaviours.It always has been a problem with dogs that resemble a Pitbull in areas that restrict them although they may have not been seized,they have been required to comply with leash and muzzle rules, housing enclosure and desexing if the owners couldn't prove the dog was not Pitbull related. The problem now is that they have taken things to the next level with this type of dog but as someone mentioned elswhere in the thread there is/was only a couple of place that freely allowed the ownership and breeding of Pitbull's.........the few Pitbull's that I know of personally were council registered as a Bully crossbreed to avoid the living and desexing restrictions, but now this loophole is closing. My family live in WA and for many years in Perth it was standard practice to register a Pitbull as a crossbreed, people have been doing this around the country for a long time to sidestep the laws, we all know that??
I am still seeing pitbull puppies advertised online in Victoria. Advertised as pitbulls, not pretending to be anything else. The people who continue to do this, who flaunt the law and think they can do whatever they want and that they have the right to own a 'tough' dog are the reason that this stupid law will never be overturned.Exactly!!! and these morons need to be knocked off with a heavy penalty for breach of the laws........they need to be policing this and shut the gate where it begins.
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m-sass the term "land shark" is hyperbolic and should have NO place in describing any dog behaviours, I hope that you realise that by condeming the Pit Bull to death you are allowing media bias and blatent half truths to win out over common sense and honesty. There are thousands of innocent dogs that are being faced with death due to intolerence and idiocy, as dog lovers we should all fight bsl not support any part of it.
The Pitbull has been "regulated" for 20 years which should IMHO generate some caution for people's decision to breed them or breed dogs of Pitbull resemblence. Problem is the breeders of these dogs do what they like, couldn't care less, take no responsibility for the doggy lives they bring into the world in total disregard for how these dogs relate to the law structure or what future they may encounter. The "morons" are the people breeding these dogs as far as I am concerned, no one is forced to breed a Bully X, they make the choice with no thought of the potential consequence of doing so. Anti BSL crusades are really just a "lets all support irresponsible and reckless breeding practices"..........sorry I don't support that, breeders should be accountable for what they produce and think more responsibly about what they are doing??
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I happen to agree with m-sass to a degree. I don't support the situation as it is now and feel for the people who are fighting for their dog's life just because they look like a pit bull.
However, if the Pitbull is a breed that is not allowed to be imported or bred, and have been so for so many years then why are still around? Why are they still being bred/crossed? Why aren't people kicking up about that? The fact is people breeding them are breaking the law. Why aren't we holding them responsible if tragedies like the Ayen Chol case occur.
Why is it that the flagrant disregard for the law is accepted in some instances and not others?
eg: It is against the law to drink and drive, drive unliscensed and use a mobile phone whilst driving. However normal everyday people do these things and think they are okay. Why is that? It is against the law and people would be up in arms if someone doing any of these were responsible for Ayen's death.
Just food for thought.
The dog who killed poor little Ayen to project the intensity of hunt, gameness and aggression to perform the deed he did would take an extremely skilled and dedicated owner to control and manage a dog like that, the dog was a landshark unfit for community living and someone did breed it someone who should be held accountable for breeding crap IMHO. The dog in Adelaide the other day who broke his collar and killed the little dog, these things happen, drop the leash, slip on the wet grass, don't latch the gate properly.......who hasn't chased a young dog up the street who shot out between your legs or something, it's life, it happens, but when it does happen and the dog is uncontrollable and dangerously aggressive to innocent people and other animals the gameness is in the dog and someone bred it who needs to be scrutinised WTF are you breeding??.
The BYB structure is a bloody free for all, breed what you like when you like and sell them to who ever you like.........try and buy high drive working GSD, Rott or Malinois capable of defensive training from a dedicated working breeder if you are a moron who wants a dog to intimidate people, breeders of this type of dog won't sell to morons often if you don't know someone to provide a reference you won't get passed the telephone, let alone buy one, well bred dogs of the triats capable of being trained to be defensive by specialist breeders heavily screen where their dogs are going and when do we hear of dogs like this taking people out........never, it's the BYB who breed crap and sell to morons like clockwork frequency, something needs to be done about the source of these dogs for my liking.
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I'm gonna say that m-sass is a troll and gets a kick out of stirring everyone up.
Nothing I have said isn't true, Pitbulls have been restricted for years, have never been a recognised breed and at any time breeds of this status can cop the chop when they are only one step away from a total ban. Pitbull's haven't been overly policed in the past so people get a bit reckless in their thoughts that owning a Pitbull or Pitbull look a like is ok...........bit like the drunk who drives home along the back streets from the pub every night for 10 years and has never seen a cop before along the trusty route, but drink driving is playing with fire like owning a Pitbull look a like, we all have choices and that's my opinion on the matter, it's nothing to do with trolling seeing something differently??.
I wouldn't touch a dog that looked like a Pitbull unless it was a papered pure breed where I could prove what breed it was, not because I don't think a Pitbull isn't a good dog, because I don't want my dog scooped up and euthanised for no fault of it's own. Countries where Wolf hybrids are banned, GSD's and Husky type crossbreeds are vulnerable to seizure if they are a bit Wolfy looking, no differnt to what is happening in Victoria. I don't agree what is happening to innocent dogs is a good thing, it stinks, but the writing has been on the wall for 20 years which to me is fair warning to make better choices.......the Victorian situation is easly avoided by aquiring dogs with a bit more forethought into what you are getting is it not??.
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People need to take resposibility for their own choices and stop blaming other people for the crackdown on restricted breed type dogs IMHO. Whether a dog is a Pitbull or whether it is not is all nonesense really as the point is, Pitbulls have been a restricted breed for 20 odd years and people need to think before they buy, aquire whatever??. Any random Bully type crossbreed could be deemed as a Pitbull so why on earth get a dog like that in the first place and leave yourself and your dog vulnerable to mis identifications, seizures, dangerous dog declarations etc etc, it makes no sense to me.
If you like Bully breeds, get a proper one from a registered breeder, one that can be verified what it is, one that is safe from these laws, if you like to rescue a dog, get a nice Greyhound or something that looks nothing like a Pitbull, no one needs a dog that replicates a restricted breed, there are plenty of options out there to choose from and avoid these situations, people need to think a bit harder about the choices they make?
It's not a case of right or wrong whether it should be ok to own a Pitbull or a crossbreed that looks like one, it's a case of the law determining them to be a restricted breed and the bottom line is get caught with one and you could be facing a drama and heartache, so why go there I ask then whinge when the wheels fall off, they have been trying to get rid of Pitbull's for 20 years, it was only a matter of time before the axe fell??
Ayen Chen - Dog Owner Fined
in In The News
Posted
Poor breeding producing crap dogs results in dog's that go beyond the management capabilities of the average pet owner is one of the major problems with too many bullshit excuses and reasons why a dog exhibits unneccessay aggression without genetics being appropriately taken into account. Like the sire of my old fella, withdrawn from showing because he was DA...........but some dog snapped at him once and made him aggressive yet he passes the same trait onto his son??.