shepherds

Thanks, am going to try the ice cream and if that doesn't work, will give peanut butter a run.

Oh....and I should have added one very important thing in the overall scheme of things..... His blood sugar was up over 30 prior to commencing the vitamin c IV etc,.....and when last tested is now a very good 4.5..... I could be wrong, but that in itself tells me his body is responding to the treatment and making the necessary changes and more importantly the cancer hasn't yet weakened his system to the point where we weren't able to get it under control without adding any insulin etc. My vet was amazed when she did his last test...even to the point she made her mother (who is diabetic) come and do a finger prick test to make sure the result was right.... That actually did put a smile on my face.

Thanks Dogmad, that is encouraging....any ideas on how to deal with 20ml of liquid.... I asked about pill/capsule form, but they have not proven to be effective... I have tried mixing the liquid into stock, cottage cheese, sardines, meat etc and no go. I honey could be a possibility as that might mask the smell a bit more???. But tomorrow I will try the ice cream....bit by bit....

I am satisfied with Dr Charles advice that it is inoperable, initially he advised surgery would be a possibility , however once the scans were done, they showed the size and extent of it, that its just not an option. If nothing else, that helped in at least I have explored all surgical avenues. And im sorry to hear about your two, 5 years, that is just way to young and devastating to lose both to cancer... And yes, they are certainly troopers....

Hi Guys... It's been a big couple of weeks, with lots of ups and downs. The tumour (as confirmed by Dr Kuntz at Southpaws in Melbourne) is definitely inoperable, in Charles words, it would not be fair to the dog. I then took him to see Dr Anne Neville and since returning to Tas have started him on a holistic program, including IV vitamin C, two types of liquid herbs and a raw organic diet. The IV's went well, it takes nearly two hours to run it into his system and he is a very good boy, who just plonks himself down on the beds the vet kindly puts down for him, and as long as I sit next to him, he will just lie their patiently with his head in my lap for the entire time it takes, no fuss or bother. My vet has been brilliant with all this. His energy levels have been okay, still interested in doing things and up and ready to go. The big issue is the food and the herbs....HE HATES IT,,,,, and has not eaten a proper meal for nearly a week and has lost weight. In desperation today, I reverted to his pre cancer diet and he scoffed everything (which indicates to me his lack of appetite is not cancer related). At this stage I'm not sure whether its the raw veggies (he has always previously had a lot of cooked veggies in his diet and its never been an issue)..or the Chinese herbs. I have tried that many variations n trying to get the food into him, I have lost track....I have tried (in no particular order): Herbs squirted down the throat, followed up by syringe of homemade chicken stock and then meal of raw meat,cooked and raw vegetables - end result...herbs were spat out, stock spat out and refused to eat the meat and veggies. Raw meat and veggies and herbs soaked overnight together, to which was added warmed steamed veggies, dry food and a bit of yoghurt - refused to eat....thrown out Herbs mixed in to raw meat, gravy, veggies etc added and served up straight away...refused to eat....dry food added..refused to eat. Herbs mixed into barley or rice, left to soak in overnight, added to raw meat and veggies...refused to eat Ther are two herb mixtures and they smell and taste vile (yes I did a quick taste test)....to me the smell is the worst.... And I am trying to get one in in the morning and the other at night. I am now going to go back to his normal food, slowly changing over to the full raw, bit by bit...(I suspect he doesnt like the texture of completely raw and misses the crunch of the dry) but I'm stuffed if I know wot to do with the herbs....my last option is to mix a couple of ml's at a time into some icrecream (after he has been fed) to see if he will take it that way... That will take a while tho as one is 20mls daily and the other is 15ml. If anyone has any ideas/suggestions I would be very grateful.... The last week has been overtaken with meal preparation and whether he is going to eat or not. I'm also well aware that while Anne Neville has had success in this area, the odds are stacked against him and his best chance with Anne's progam is getting this into him over the next 2-3 weeks (as to whether its going to help). This is also doing my head in....if it doesn't work, do I really want to have spent the last 3 weeks battling with him and the diet, when we could be doing other things and he is happy..... Or if I don't continue to try and persevere for the next couple of weeks, will I regret it because I will never know if it could have bought more time or not.....and I know it has worked for others.... People when they see him are still gobsmacked he has what he has...... That also makes it very hard to give in and just let things take there course.... Any suggestions.....please?????

Well has been a busy couple of days. All tests done here have come back and so far everything is good. Liver and kidney function normal, platelets normal and outside of tumor all other X-rays etc are clear. Vets words if you didn't know about the tumor, based on all other results and how he presents himself you would think he was in good health. Following everyone's recommendations, lots of research and lots of talking with those that know, we are booked to go to Melbourne on Tueday to meet with both Dr Kuntz and Dr Anne Neville and will take the next step from there. Thank you all for your input, it has helped more than you would know.

I fully support the theory. My eldest boy who is now 12, has severe arthritic issues. I see a naturopath myself and it was her who bought up the link between wheat and inflammatory conditions and the benefits in removing it from the diet, particularly with arthritis. I then put my boy on a wheat free food and the difference was amazing, initially I was able to cut out all vet medication and just rely on herbal support and he got a huge new lease on life. That was over two years ago and I have had to reintroduce the more serious stuff, but I have absolutely no doubt he wouldn't be where he is today and able to do what he can, if he was still getting wheat in his diet.

Thank you again. I went to work today, but had to leave cos I was useless. I have however put my time to good use,. i have met with my vet and gone through everything again in detail. She Ihas had experience with this and only recently worked with another client, flying with the dog to Sydney for surgery (which wasn't a good outcome ). My boys tumor is in the exact same location which is why she has provided the advice she has, she will however speak to Dr Charles Kuntz. In the meantime I have also spoken to Anne Neville (who is lovely and very supportive) and have just now express posted everything relevant including hair sample and will see where we go from there. If nothing else I feel like I've done something and got a plan in place, whichever way it goes.....

You and your boy are in very good hands. All the best for the surgery.

I read your story last night Dxenion and I'm so sorry for the loss of your girl Java. So many of the thoughts you expressed are where my heads at right now.... They give us so much, but at times like this that unconditional love is almost unbearable when faced with not having them anymore....

Thank you dancinbcs......I will explore that as well. I was hoping today I would wake up with some clarity of mind on what to do. I admit its not in my nature to give in and my head and my heart have spent all night arguing with no real outcome on where to go and what to do next. Will spend today investigating all options and while my head is telling me to give him quality, my heart while I sit here watching him bounce around outside waiting for the swallows to get up, is to fight with everything available still knowing that is not always the best thing to do.

Thank you.....Will try and make contact tomorrow..... Trying so hard to keep it together in front of my boy,..... Does anyone think that dogs know when they are really sick......

Thank you.....I will talk to the vet again tomorrow and ask her to make some phone calls, in particular to your specialist. My vet gave me a lot of verbal info today and I know some of it didn't stick...but I do recall her telling me, where it it located they need to go through the pelvis...but it never hurts to ask questions and for further explanation.and you have given me the name of someone to call. And long may your girl enjoy chasing swallows.

Thank you, it has been explained to me given the location unlikely they will be able to get a clear margin and it to get to it will necessitate breaking his pelvis and they are also uncertain as to the extent (if any of secondaries). Any surgery would also be done on the mainland where the experts are and whilst that's not an issue, it's a consideration when considering how he would cope with the flight, surgery and travel home. And whilst I admit my thoughts are still all over the place and generally I will go to the ends of the earth when it comes to treatment for my animals, my initial gut reaction when the vet gave me the bad news was that given his age and what is happening is to give him quality of life and manage it, keeping him pain free as long as we can. The info I have found to date is not at all promising, even where surgery was able to be done.... That said, the brain is spinning at 100miles per hour and I just don't know what is right...

My 9 year old boy has today been diagnosed with an inoperable rectal Adenocarcinoma. It's situated right in the pelvic, approximately the size of an egg. The vet has advised given the position of the tumor it is inoperable and it is palliative care, Aside from being slightly constipated in all other aspects he gives the appearance of being healthy, eating, drinking, playing and has an active interest on whatever is going on around him, including chasing swallows in the paddock. I'm shattered. Has anyone had any experience with this....and if so what did you learn, what was helpful, useful etc etc. Has anyone used a herbal/naturopathic approach (and if so what)? And has anyone used or heard of POLY MVA? Thank you

Didn't work for me, last snake removed from this property (last season) was in a direct line between two repellers which were only about 9 feet apart????. I should have saved my money and put it towards the snake mesh I eventually put around the dog runs. Snake catcher has also posted a video showing a snake in fairly close proximity to one of the repellers...still I know of others who swear by them, just not me....

I have dealt with severe arthritic issues in my 12 year old shepherd for a few years now. One of the easiest and really helpful things to do is to remove all wheat from their diets. Wheat is a huge inflammatory agent and it was amazing the change in my boy when I changed his food. Also look towards herbals and I recommend these people http://www.herbal-treatments.com.au/herbal_treatments_for_dogs.html Depending on the severity of your dogs issues you may be able to help him and cut back on vet pain relief. When I first made the above changes I was able to cut out all vet medication. Sadly time continues to march on and it has again become necessary to provide additional pain relief via vet medication and after trialling a few different medications (after appropriate wash out periods) have settled for Onsior which is working very well for him. Others I tried were at the maximum dose rates and not nearly as effective. Onsior is not cheap either but more cost effective than being on maximum dose of other meds tried. If giving fish oil in substantial doses you also need to look at supplementing vitamin E as well. I wish you and your boy the very best....our oldies are special.

Hello :) I take it that is the total score each for the sire and dam? What are the individual scores for each hip.... If for example the dam's score is the 9 - how is that split for each hip to add up to the 9? And the subtraction is actually subluxation. :) I don't mean to confuse you...but it is helpful to know what the score is for each hip....to see how balanced the results are....Of course if there is a big discrepancy between the score for each hip it can also mean the dog was set up badly (tilted) for the X-ray, which can also have a big impact on the results. I don't know about Lagotto's - but for German shepherds you can't have anymore than a score of 8 for each hip or more than 3 on anyone of the measurable points. Hopefully some wiser Lagotto owners will come on here and let you know what the specifics are for your breed.

Howdy.... Ring Robert McDowell and ask to speak with Kate....she will run through with you all your dog's symptoms, when it all started, what you've done since, current medication etc etc.....then come up with a plan for you. They are brilliant...can highly recommend them. All the best with your girl and hope you get something sorted soon.

Great idea

Sorry can't help with suggestions of who, but feel your pain. My Oh and I have had 1 holiday away together ion 18 years and that was when my brother was staying with us for six months and he could look after our tribe. Wish you good luck in finding that person to look after your dogs......and enjoy your holiday!!!!!!!!

Can thoroughly recommend those folks.....a lot of the time "quackery " provides far better outcomes.....the specialists just don't want to admit it,

Yep guilty - worried dog mum. They the dye and stuff in his eye to check for scratching etc, it didn't show anything. And no they didn't move the third eyelid back., not sure but that could have been because of how much of a mess he was at the time and not to stress him any further? It looks better again today, so fingers crossed while continue to improve. Thanks again everyone for your help and advice. :)

Hi all. Well he is definitely brighter in himself (back to climbing on the couch and coming around the paddock for a little walk). While the swelling continues to go down (almost disappeared along with the fluid below the eye) and there is hardly any gunk coming out of it now - the third eyelid still remains across part of his eye though and still quite red/inflamed in the corner. I took him back to the vets last night as he also has slightly enlarged lymph nodes directly below his jaw. Vet checked all other lymph nodes and they are fine, so just localized swelling of them. They have doubled the antibiotics and I have to ring again tomorrow just to give a status update. He's also eating soft food quite easily, although doesn't really like it if you get to close to the front of his mouth. I'm still worried about the third eyelid -does anyone have any experience of severe eye infection and will the lid retract as the eye continues to heal? Vet did not have any satisfactory answers for me as to what they think occurred and what is happening....... It's very much a let's wait and see what happens approach.....one I don't cope with well when it comes to the health of my animals.

Thanks for the info Lyndsay .