m-j

Hi all, I would just like to say that I am withdrawing this ad. This is due to the fact that since I am home now I seem to have managed to explain to them that while their enthusiasm for their work has not gone unnoticed, they don't need to keep practising and they seem to be understanding, not that I'll be putting the house on a bet that this is the case.

That was quite interesting, but the article said that of thirteen  cubs only three showed any interest in returning the ball to the person I wonder how many 13 say greyhounds or another breed of pup, that may have little or no retrieving / nurturing drive would with no training to bring back a ball. My experience has been (with Greys) that they are generally quite nonchalant when it actually comes to holding it in their mouth after they have chased and grabbed it, once the movement has gone they have very little interest. They would be more than willing to come back, but not one brought the ball back with them  also I did this collectively not individually which may have had some influence on their behaviour. Having said that i have seen a retrieving nutter Grey but the owner told me that he did need to learn to retrieve.

31 minutes ago, PANDI-GIRL said:

Oh my goodness,   so I guess you don't waste time planting pretty flowers 

:-) No, I had toyed with the idea of getting them to dig my vege garden but it would be several years before the plants made it to the surface.

Hi

I have decided to hire out my two dogs as excavators. No charge for them as your swimming pool will be placed at their discretion. They can be a little lazy at times and will lie down on the job but don't worry your pool will most likely be finished by Christmas. They have had many years of experience but they haven't watched the ads for dial before you dig as when I enquired if they had contacted them Buster cocked his head sideways which my OH interpreted as huh????, so you may need to. 

Cheers

 Probably because I ve had cultural diversity rammed down my throat for the last month or so, long story (Im not saying it is right just the person there probably doesn't really actually think what they are doing because it has always been that way, it is the norm). Things like that kid who mowed down all those emus with his car when they get caught that's what I loudly cheer they are deliberately being an ass...... it is not the norm in Aus to mow down emus. 

7 minutes ago, twodoggies2001 said:

Yes it is terribly cruel, but if the Spanish can do what they do to the bulls in the name of entertainment then nothing surprises me. 

Yes. I must confess I have secretly done a happy dance when I saw footage of a matador getting nailed. 

It is absolutely awful, these hunters are sooooo deliberately cruel. if they just hung they are lucky, they have some very cruel "traditions" (I won't go into detail)  It isn't just Galgos either there is a breed called Podencos (bit like a Pharaoh hound) that also is commonly used by them so so sad

On 5/10/2019 at 1:04 PM, Rascalmyshadow said:

One thing I’ve nevet understood is why prong collars are banned here when they are so much more gentle and less damaging than head collars, check chains and quite a few types of harnesses.

Yes this is true if used properly but in my limited experience I found them to be very effective which means the sensation they give is quite poignant so in the wrong hands they could cause damage. If they were freely available the likelihood of them getting into the wrong hands and being used as punishment instead of as a training aid is very possible.

I know any collar, harness etc can cause damage but just just the look of these collars I believe could attract the wrong person to them.

I have seen the "wrong person" experience with an e collar which is why I tend to err on the side of caution.

Thanks Persphone, she was a sweetie and deserved it.

My little red cattle dog passed today.

You had the first eight years of your life on a chain attached to a bare board kennel, with never a loving word said. The ground you spent that time on was grass-less. I bought you home and watched you grow through the new experiences you had. I will never forget you watching Roxie rolling on her back in the grass with a look of curiosity and puzzlement, then trying it yourself and doing again and again as you decided it really was one the fun things in life. 

Today was such a contrast emotionally from those days but at least the eight years you were with us enabled you to be a dog.

We will miss you!

Yes you are probably right regarding assessments etc and I have seen  dogs do wonderful things to/with these guys, but I think regular reviews would be absolutely essential.

Without wanting to sound mean, I hope they temperament test the kids also, when some people realize they cant do what they used to be able to do they can have an extinction burst and become violent even the most benign.

40 minutes ago, Tassie said:

And that in itself is a plus @m-j  .. doesn't always happen.  My young BC was comfortably in his show trolley at a similar event .. in the care of a friend, and well out of the way so he wouldn't be bothered by other dogs.  I was in a different part of the grounds with my girl as part of an agility display.   Luckily my friend was quite capable of dealing with the woman who was all gung ho about the cruelty of keeping the dog in a "cage".   This was just a member of the AR fringe I think, not an official.

Yes it is good that people are concerned but when they are vigilante on a crusade it's nuisance at best.

Many years ago I had a stall set up at a million paws walk and underneath the table I had crate which my dog was in basking in the sun. This was before crates where common and the only people that really used them were show people and true dog people. I saw the local inspector making a hurried beeline toward me, he came around to where I was sitting, stood there and stared at my dog who was half asleep, she opened one of her eyes looked at him for a short time went meh and closed her eye again. I was asked quite abruptly "why is your dog in there", I replied "to keep the other not friendly dogs away from her". He asked "does she want to be in there" I opened the door she opened her eyes raised her head saw I was still seated, leadless, treatless and hadn't asked her to come out, so promptly put her head back down and closed her eyes. I looked at the dog that he had with him who was at the end of its lead tense tail up and constantly pacing as far as the lead would allow it and said " of all the dogs that are here she is the about the only truly relaxed one". With that he turned and walked away.

Now while I don't read minds I think I would be fairly safe to say he came over with the intent to "have a go" at me about having my dog locked up in a cage, but he did see what Sasha was telling him.

They are fantastic at calming. Only the other day I was with a person who loading up to have a meltdown the moment I put the dogs lead in her hand her demeanour did a complete backflip, she ended up having a great day, magic!

On 10/26/2018 at 5:51 PM, Big D said:

All Dog Breeds are not the same.  It's the same with most "domesticated" animals, but more so because Dogs have been bred for such different purposes.
Furthermore, many breeds, originally bred for a particular purpose, have over recent decades been bred as pets for temperament and companionship.

Greyhounds haven't.  To this day, they are bred to race.

 

Their reputation as "couch potatoes" is not surprising.  Even the fastest champion spends most of its life waiting around.  So I would imagine that "patience" and "calmness" would be characteristics inherently enforced.  (eg a dog that was constantly agitated would presumably not make a good racer and so would not be bred.)

But they are still sighthounds with a huge prey-drive.

 

I have Flatcoats.  A wonderful gentle, passive, breed.  But they can't be let lose anywhere near ducks, because, guess what, they want to retrieve them and break their necks.  Go Figure.

 

And I still come back to my original point, and I can't believe you would use the horrible euphemism "wastage."  Surplus dogs, especially those not good enough to race, are simply murdered.  It's horrific, and it should be stopped.
GaP is simply a very small band-aid.

Yes wastage is not nice terminology.

The surplus Greys are now not"murdered" it is against the law to do so, unless a vet verifies that they should be due to injury and the vet has to do it and a report must be sent to the governing racing body of the state.

A race dog has more interactions with people and other dogs on an average day than pets whose owners work. They are couch potatoes because that is the nature of the breed.

They bred from because they are fast regardless  of the anxiety/excitement levels. Prey drive is inspired visually or by noises or actions associated with that vision, just like the vision of ducks makes your dogs excited, the difference being the Greys get to go through the sequence of the fixed action pattern, unlike your dogs which remain frustrated, albeit with good reason.

11 minutes ago, Maddy said:

Handling ears for any reason.. something I dread. Ear branding of puppies while they're wide awake, and during a critical socialisation period, is setting the dog up for issues. One of my greys would SCREECH if you touched his ear leathers, even if you were just gently touching. I was concerned enough to take him to our vet (who also got screeched at ) and his ears were clean, healthy and very normal. Since him, I've had many others who weren't keen on having their ears touched, yet NEVER seen that issue in unbranded greys (which I've had several of).

For that very reason I (and I got strangers to) handled the pups ears, put up on tables etc before they were branded. The stewards always remarked how calm they were and afterwards I dont recall any having issues. Most came already branded and yes there were issues to be resolved, but I was fortunate that the majority were still young 3mths or so they did learn to accept it fortunately, as throughout their racing life they were going to have it done alot.

The thing that used to bug me the most is the way they were generally handled, the guys were rough, not to be nasty, but just "that is how you do it, gotta show em who's boss" "gotta treat em rough or they wont cope with being knocked around in a race" That was what the guys had been taught, they believed they were doing the dogs a favor. That culture changed eventually thank goodness. 

Just going ot for minute have you had anything to do with corns?

On 10/18/2018 at 10:25 AM, Maddy said:

Maybe pet breeders down here are worse but it all looks comparable to me. There was stuff I don't agree with- such as the culling out of very young pups with health issues or from the odd oopsy litter, even though they could have been good pets- but the fact is, euthanising unfit/unsuitable puppies is not exactly unknown in the show world either (white boxers come to mind). From what I saw, living conditions were much of a muchness (comparable, if not better than the conditions at the breeder we purchased our last pet dog from), socialisation as a whole was definitely lacking but pups were at least kept together, so social skills with other large dogs are generally great.

Most breeders that I know of down here, feed out a raw puppy mince, no one cuts off dew claws off puppies (which some registered breeders do themselves, even those toes attached by bone) and overall.. it's average care. 

It's certainly not ideal (very far from it, especially with regards to socialisation) but compared to the conditions you see companion bred puppies living in down here, it's no worse.  

Yes their social skills with other dogs are good but with many of the older pups that came to us that was where their social and other skills ended. Acceptance of and not enjoying being handled was a common problem, but as I said easily fixed due to their nature.

On 10/16/2018 at 8:28 PM, Maddy said:

I can't see what major issues there would be with rearing, it's no better or worse than how many pet breeders (registered or otherwise) raise dogs. 

From the pet breeders I know the practises were worlds apart. This is why the rearing of greys has come under scrutiny with the changes that have been introduced into the industry.

I changed some of our practises at the kennels years before the proverbial hit the fan in the industry by introducing aspects of the way pets are raised. According to the feedback we received the results were favourable, which is why my boss allowed me to do so. 

22 hours ago, corvus said:

 I'd like to know what's going on for real as well. Wait for another Four Corners report, I guess. 

*Sigh* probably, unfortunately.

On 10/6/2018 at 11:50 PM, corvus said:

I'm not sure exactly what Karen Dawson's experiences are with human-directed aggression and anxiety in ex-racers. Frankly, the industry has chewed her up and spat her out, and it's hard to know what is driving her comments. Whatever her stance and however right or wrong she is, no one deserves the sickening way she has been treated.

 

That being said, what do you do? She's still seen a lot more ex-racing greyhounds than I have, for example, and seen them from more sources and regions. The industry isn't the same everywhere, and in the past perhaps there has been more self-selection occurring with the greyhounds that get sent for assessment with GAP than there is now that in NSW at least, it's a lot harder to euthanise a racing greyhounds than it used to be. So, I wouldn't comment, I guess. I don't know what the situation is. I haven't seen much evidence of human-directed aggression or anxiety from dogs I've seen at tracks or in training. That might be because it's not very common or it might be because they don't usually make it to the track, or maybe I have missed out on seeing a sizeable portion of the greyhound population. 

I still would really like to know as to how many nasty greys she saw and how long for and what were the owners like. In the kennels I worked at we had dogs come from all over Australia and from many different trainers, breeders and rearers. You could tell the dogs that hadn't had the best life and one of the things that used to astound me was the great bounceback these dogs have, wallflowers would blossom, nervous wrecks would take on the world, with a little bit of encouragement and sensible handling, they are not hard dogs to train or convince they have got it wrong about whatever their issue was.

I don't want to seem to be being nasty to the vet but I just still find it difficult to believe that a large proportion of her human aggro cases were greys. Maybe she was seeing a lot of dogs that had come from the same racing kennel??? One of the big revolving door training establishments, where if the dogs aren't an instant asset they're a liability and get treated accordingly.

On 9/22/2018 at 7:51 PM, MillieMar said:

My family has recently adopted a young Male greyhound from rescue. He is a sweet boy who loves people, but I already had a cavalier king Charles spaniel. After a few days settling in, the greyhound has taken an interest in chasing my cavalier.

 

We step in straight away, putting the lead on the greyhound until he calms down...but this behaviour can't continue.

 

I want to provide a home for this greyhound but I won't risk the safety of my cavalier, who is now terrified.

 

Can anything be done?

I'm sorry to hear that it didn't work out for you, did you find a home for the grey?

I think that Greys being dangerous to small dogs cats etc does depend on what they are trained on to a great extent. I only ever used a toy and saw many dogs pass over rabbits that were closer to get the toy, one dog literally ran over the rabbits. When she saw the two rabbits her gait faulted for a couple of strides and then she continued on to get the toy which would have been easily a couple of hundred metres away and she certainly had high prey drive. Im not saying that all dogs would be like that but early learning certainly has a huge impact on how they think even with intrinsic behaviour.

The crackdown on live baiting should be a good start to alleviating this problem. I know it had been illegal for a long time and was still practised but the 4 Corners report, the public outcry and the near closure of the industry has had a huge impact. 

I have only rehomed 20 or so dogs after they left our kennels and had gone to a trainer to race. All came straight from the track and all were easily rehomed in urban situations. I did keep in touch with the owners and not one had any animal or any other type of aggression issues.

The dogs at the kennels were handled a lot though, my son who was quite young at the time was frequently with me at the kennels obviously he was always supervised when interacting with them but not once did I have any concerns when he was with them. I would NOT have allowed him to come to the kennels if I thought he may have got hurt in any way.

20 dogs is only a small sample but I handled over 700 dogs during my time at the kennels and can say there was only 1 dog who came to us with anything near what you would call an aggression issue and I would have not rehomed him even though he was great with us after a couple of weeks, my son was not allowed near him except when the dog was in his kennel, there were no issues the dog actually enjoyed my son talking to him as he would eagerly greet him when got to know him. The others I would have had no issues with rehoming as they presented while at the kennels. This why I really find it so hard to believe that people have been bitten badly enough to  loose body parts or even just bitten which the vet in the article leads us to believe is a fairly common occurrence with Greys. 

On 8/27/2018 at 10:02 PM, Big D said:

The Greyhound Industry is an abomination that should have been shut down decades ago.  The vast majority of dogs, unsuccessful at racing, are simply killed.
GAP is a sham.  It's actually an Industry initiative designed to cover up the the true horror.  Obviously they have a vested interest in distorting the truth, and promoting this fairy-tale that surplus Greyhounds all go on to happy lives as pets.

The "domestication" problem isn't restricted to Greyhounds.  Trying to take any animal, bred and trained for a particular industry, and force it into a radically different environment, is a recipe for suffering and disaster. 

If what you say is the case that dogs bred to do a job can't settle into a domestic situation we shouldn't own any dogs except toy breeds which were specifically bred to be lap dogs. Actually we shouldn't own any animals at all. Many animals for hundreds of years have managed to settle into domestic bliss without suffering or disastrous outcomes.

Yes GAP was an incentive of the industry but I'm fairly certain the people that invest a lot of time and effort into rehoming dogs, not of their making, would be very disappointed to hear that their efforts are a sham. I understand your concerns and also feel the "wastage" issues in the industry was disgraceful but since the reforms have been introduced, things are improving. While it isn't perfect they have some of the strictest regulations of any dog industry. Can you give me an example of a dog/animal industry that is perfect?

I agree that the dogs need to handled and exposed to life outside a kennel but to say that because they are bred to race and that makes them less able to be integrated into life as a domestic dog I feel is a bit of an exaggeration. Any breed of dog not exposed to life will react to a situation that is different and they perceive as threatening. They do have a very passive coping style and yes many people think that they arent stressed when they are, as with any dog with a similar coping style. I would love to have a dollar for everytime I been told "my dog's not stressed". When I was working at the kennels I did my best to expose the dogs to novel situations with a good outcome i.e I would put alitter the back of my car and take them to the shop to see the people cars, dogs cats etc coming and going while giving lots of treats, if the owners said I could.

I would like to know what the behaviour issues these dogs are going to a behaviourist for. I just find it hard to believe that they are over represented in the stats of dogs being presented for behavioural issues. In the same ten years I worked at the kennels I was also a dog trainer/instructor and I experienced many many more dogs with issues in just the basic obedience classes than I did with the greys which way outnumbered the amount of dogs that went through the classes.

@asal when I was riding trackwork we had a horse for want of a better word was mad and like you say dangerous to ride. Anyway several years later we went to the stud where his sire had stood and the stud master remembered his dam Queens Gambit well because she was as "mad as cut cat" to quote him and then went on to tell us a few things about her. The apple hadn't fallen far from the tree.