dannyBC

I need to buy a grooming table suitable for large breed dogs... Any recommendations of where to buy??

I'm looking to buy a grooming table for large breed dogs.... I want a really good quality one that is stable & able to have 80kg plus....Does anyone have recommendations of where to buy???

I apologise the last time I did research into Penn Hip, there were only about 3 vets that were doing Penn-Hip. That was about 5 years ago.

It is interesting how many vets now seem to be doing Penn Hip. I still feel that without any breed information provided back to breeders or breed clubs it really has no place in a breeding program.

My other concern with Penn Hip is people with pet puppies coming back to breeders claiming their puppy has HD when it is less than 12 months old.

Well Yes I've had 2 pet people come back to me after their Vet has diagnosed HD..... One was 18weeks old the other 8mths... Both have high laxity????

Until research proves to me how different breeds cope with Laxity??? I think this is useless information...

I'm very frustrated...

Wow thankyou everyone.... Heaps of great information. I think I'm off to buy one this weekend. It'll be a be ask of it, but I'm prepared to empty it daily & run the other vacuum over each week.. So I think my expectations are OK.

Thanks for everyones input.

I'm interested to hear from people who have a Robot Vacuum.... & what they think. There seems to be lots of different brands... I have 10 dogs in the house & the hair is crazy..

PennHip is not well thought of here in the USA. They (the PennHip people) won't diagnose if a dog does or does not have HD, they just tell about the laxity...um, why not just tell if the dog is dysplastic based on the radiographs?? Also, they do not have an open database whereas the OFA does. That information is useful for breeders/owners to learn all they can about the bloodlines.

Anyway, not a scheme I use. I prefer OFA.

Very interesting...... Problem here is there are Vets now recommending pet owners Penn Hip score at 16weeks.... Then if there is laxity... They are telling the owners their puppy has HD....& scaring the hell out of them..

Lils mum I don't believe that it was actually even sent away for evaluation It is only done as a reference and the procedure demands that it is done :mad . It has no value as it is too late for the puppy the xray is done the same day as surgery and desexing so it is too late to prevent anything.

I have not heard of any of these PennHips done prior to JPS that are evaluated PROFESSIONALLY >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I WOULD LOVE TO HEAR FROM ANYONE THAT HAS HAD THEM EVALUATED >>>>>>>>> PLEASE

This is just getting ridiculous!!! I feel so sorry for these Pet owners who trust their Vet... I have just started a thread on Penn Hip as I have concerns with it?? as an evaluation process....

I've had similar happen to me twice with Border Collie puppies I've bred.....

Penn Hip Vets are calling dogs with Laxity - Hip Displasia!!!!! & its not.....

I have posted this in the Health / Nutrition / Grooming and it appears that no one is interested.

Am I among the minority because I am concerned about the prevalence of vets that are advocating this surgery?

I first posted about this on the 23rd March 2008 and at the time it received many hits and even today I still receive emails asking

(a) about the surgery and

(B) which veterinary practices are involved in advising puppy people to have the surgery on their puppies.

I would first like all breeders to warn their puppy buyers about vets who are advising that puppies undergo this unnecessary surgery, some of these vets can be very persuasive making new puppy owners think that it is in the best interest for the life long health of their new puppy.

What do other think, are they concerned, who here has been contacted by worried new puppy owners because vets have advised them to have the surgery on their new puppy?

These days I warn all of my new owners to BEWARE of vets who offer this surgery and to contact me if their vet should even mention JPS surgery.

OMG thats terrible... So are the Vets suggesting this procedure after Xraying the puppy???? Why would they do this.....I'd like to know more..

The original Penn Hip system was based on 100 dogs, mainly greyhounds and beagles, with a few crossbreeds.

Most breeds have a scoring system for their breed where there are cutoff points and recommendations for how to lower the score. You also have to look at dogs and though the bones are the same shape in the hip pelvic girdle positions in breeds can vary.

The mean average score in GSD's is now around the 12 -13 mark well inside the breed cut off limit. Most breeders now not only use animals that have very low scores but now look at adding both parents scores together and unless the combined parent scores are under 12 a majority of breeders will not do a breeding.

There are no specific indicators or available scores made available to breed clubs from the Penn Hip scheme via the University of Pennsylvania and as such there is no point in any breed club supporting a scheme that doesn't assist breed clubs or breeders to improve their breeding stock.

Yes my point too... But I still want to know how a high DI will affect different breeds & I don't think this information is available.... I have 5 dogs here scored with both systems & only 1 has a good Penn hip score???? But all 5 have AVA scores between - 1 & 5 total?????

From a breeding point this is hard????? As one always wants to do the best.... Very confused...

A link that might interest you on how sublaxation may actually help a BC or similar dog in its intended work.

http://stilhope.com/writings/hips.html

My BC who does primarily work sheep has a score of 1-1 with the score being in thet acetabular fossa (SP), which is normally associated with wear and tear. Has he got this score from the damage caused by twisting and turning when working? Not Pennhip I know.

Thanks that article is great & interesting..... Very much along the lines of what I was thinking too. I wonder if there are other articles & research in this same area... It would be interesting to Penn Hip a large number of working BC's to see what they come up with...

The original Penn Hip system was based on 100 dogs, mainly greyhounds and beagles, with a few crossbreeds.

Most breeds have a scoring system for their breed where there are cutoff points and recommendations for how to lower the score. You also have to look at dogs and though the bones are the same shape in the hip pelvic girdle positions in breeds can vary.

The mean average score in GSD's is now around the 12 -13 mark well inside the breed cut off limit. Most breeders now not only use animals that have very low scores but now look at adding both parents scores together and unless the combined parent scores are under 12 a majority of breeders will not do a breeding.

There are no specific indicators or available scores made available to breed clubs from the Penn Hip scheme via the University of Pennsylvania and as such there is no point in any breed club supporting a scheme that doesn't assist breed clubs or breeders to improve their breeding stock.

Yes my point too... But I still want to know how a high DI will affect different breeds & I don't think this information is available.... I have 5 dogs here scored with both systems & only 1 has a good Penn hip score???? But all 5 have AVA scores between - 1 & 5 total?????

From a breeding point this is hard????? As one always wants to do the best.... Very confused...

I'd also like to comment on the practice of those that use PennHIP and then report their results ONLY as percentile results. To me this is meaningless, unless the breed is one which has a genepool pretty universally affected by HD

Percentile results don't tell us if the information is based on 4 dogs or 400 dogs. It is likely to alter over the years as more dogs are added to the database. AFAIK the PennHIP information indicates that it is the degree of laxity - ie the Distraction Index - which gives the information on the potential to develop arthritic change in the future, and is therefore the meaningful measure.

My thoughts too.... Its not a good study under about 500 really.... On their home page they show a graph of only 1 dog with .7 DI & 1 dog with .8 DI in their study that showed 100% of those 2 dogs developed Arthritic changes..... Gee not enough to convince me that all dogs with a high DI of over .7 will definitely develop HD.????? OR more my question is??? Do all breeds fall into the same???

The ANKC/AVA scheme is recognised worldwide. A number of FCI and other countries do not recognise Penn-Hip.

If you look up on your search engine the origins of the Penn-Hip scheme, you will realise that it isn't suitable for all breeds of dogs. Plus you are basically sending money to an American University instead of keeping it in Australia.

Interesting that you found information on Penn hip not suitable for some breeds.. I can't find much on that, but will try searching again..

I have used Penn Hip on about 6 dogs & only one dog has a good result.???? But all 6 dogs are very sound & do Agility.... So I just wonder if certain breeds can cope with laxity better then others??

All very interesting..

What does everyone think of Penn Hip?? I do wonder if laxity affects different breeds differently??? There doesn't seem to be much research on many breeds. Any thoughts???