Fred Flintstone

No one is saying belting a dog out of frustration is ok. But the idea that a dog will never understand a smack or it will never work is incorrect. There is a difference between taking your dog out the back after a show and laying into it, and a short, sharp smack on the rump when you catch the dog with their head in the kitty litter. The latter, if timed correctly WILL punish the behaviour and the dog will associate it with the behaviour you want to deter. The smack doesn't hurt more than discomfort, and serves much more to startle the dog than anything else. Like I said, I'm not promoting smacking as a be all and end all, it's only really useful in a very small amount of situations, but I disagreed with the notion that a dog will never understand a smack or learn from it, no matter what the scenario. I'm not disagreeing with you. i also said some dogs will learn via punishment using as you say "a short, sharp smack on the rump" they through fear but they may still learn. In the kitty litter example a stern voice would be just as useful to have the startle affect. either would be effective for some dogs...others dogs may just learn not to do it when you are around as the motivation is too strong to raid the litter tray or the bin....scavenging is normal dog behaviour after all. I think the original post was more about incidents at trials and dogs being punished inappropriately.... not a tap/smack on the bum for eating kitty crumbed sausages in the litter tray. Any physical punishment or handling of a dog at a trial in public land is not acceptable from the dogs welfare and the image of the sport. Regardless of how minor others may think the punishment was, incidents should be reported to have the message to all competitors it is not acceptable. What people do in their own homes is up to them but they should be more careful when out and about. Like :-)

Why is it okay that they 'barely do any promotion of pedigree dogs and of direct members'. Why does everyone see this as OKAY and is happy to accept it? You'll note I didn't say it's okay nor that it's accepted. Any thread about oodles will contain any number of complaints on this point. Any promotion depends on a number of things: 1. Money. 2. Organisational structure. 3. Those involved in said organisation. 4. People willing to swallow their pride and cooperate. 5. In an organisation that relies on volunteers, goodwill and time. Even now there are pedigree dog people who do not believe that they should do anything to promote pedigree dogs even at a personal level. Do you think the promotion of flyball should be reliant on people who can't be bothered to get up and fight for pedigree dogs? I think the flyball community is rallying behind this. As an aside flyball promotes itself to the community (I do believe the AFA membership is on the rise while ANKC membership appears to me to be going down). A quick run down of what a grass roots member of the AFA has been involved in to promote the sport..... The AFA was involved in the World Dog Games a few years ago, goes to the sydeny pet expo when its on, has a presence of most of the 'dog days outs' in NSW either as a Demo or an actual comp. We have comps at the Sydney royal (4 days of competition, and 3 demo days plus a demo in the main arena and we have a great area right near the gates so everyone gets to see us at sydney ) and I think some of the other states do comps and or demo's at their main agricultural shows. I know we also have a comps for a few Agricultural shows. At all these events we have sprukers that are constantly (and I mean CONSTANTLY after 4 days at the royal) telling people to come and talk to members about getting involved because flyball is the sport for every dog. AND for most small events we can put together a demo team (usually people with beginner dogs who want some exposure and bring our racing dogs with us) within a few weeks, not the 5mths that it takes DogsNSW to plan. Part of the selection criteria for our nationals is for it to be tied in with a big event- this year it was canberra royal, last year sydney royal, next years is with the Dandenong show (no idea how big that one is lol). We usually make it into the papers for our nationals, go on morning TV shows etc. It is the amount of enthusiasm that I think the ANKC missed out on harnessing. It probably wouldn't have taken much effort at all on the part of the ANKC or its member bodies to actually engage with its members involved in flyball to end up with a very solid sport and a group of people that are very active and committed to keeping the enthusiasm running. I have also pulled out my flyball dog during lunch breaks to put on obedience and agility demos at the community pet events when the local members haven't shown up- so I certainly know a fair bit about apathy. Doesn't mean I am not going to try and use some enthusiasm to get the ball rolling with other people too. PS if anyone one wants any info about their local flyball club email the AFA secretary at [email protected] Don't forget about the Purina Sponsorship with the AFA.

How can smacking your dog ever be an acceptable training method? One very smart man once said....'The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the ways its animals are treated ~ Mahatma Gandhi'(1869-1948. Spiritual leader of India) BTW I understand that regarding the abuse incident mentioned, the person was proven to be guilty! Cheers. FF

Dogs NSW has always said that flyball competitions won't be held at Erskine Park grounds mainly I was told because of insurance issues. Flyball demo's have been held at Erskine Park. As far as I know, no one has ever asked to host a comp there. Interesting observation.