SaltyDog

Hi Lisa, Wow! What a coincidence. We are actually off to VACC with Thabo literally as I type this. We have a midday appointment for Thabo to start chemo and auranofin! We have fingers crossed he will do very well with the chemo and that we will see some good results with the auranofin. He has been absolutely amazing so far. His recovery has been quick and he is so happy and fully of life. Just like he used to be. I won't lie, the first two days were tough. But he was on good pain killers and got past that so well. Now he is just back to being an amazing, happy, energetic dog. We are very realistic regarding his survival time, but we are so glad we made the choice to save him and not give up. Even the past week has made it worth it, to see him happy and back to normal. We hope we get a lot more time with him, but we cherish every minute we have with him and we know his love of life is still there...making the tough operation he went through worth it. To be totally honest, I think it was probably harder on us then it was on him. He bounced back so well...

Hi guys, Has anybody had any experience with eastern medicine vets in Victoria? I have been to Anne Neville in bentleigh before...and had a good experience. But would like to hear of any others or any stories or thoughts based around this? We have a dog who has just had an amputation due to osteosarcoma and is starting chemo soon...and we wanted to use eastern meds in conjunction with conventional medication.

Just an update guys....picked Thabo up from the vet. Op all went very well, and was basically the perfect results. Tumour has totally been removed, and we have him booked in for chemo in a couple of weeks. He seems amazingly bright and happy...which is great news. He is a bit dopey due to the morphine, but that's to be expected. Besides that, so far so good!

Yeah, he got through yesterday all ok. Was extremely traumatic for us all at home and dropping him at the clinic was awful, he was probably zonked out most of the day so was probably an easy day for him. Although today is obviously going to be tougher for him, but he had an epidural, and is on an IV morphine drip, so hopefully he is quite comfortable considering. The op went very well and no further signs of a spread, so good news there again. He also got through it all with flying colors. We are now ready for the next stage, of getting him back to the bright, happy boy we know and love...which is going to be hard work for him, and for us to I suppose. But we think he is worth the fight and his quality of life is worth us going through all this...in a lot of respects, the PTS option was probably easier on us all...but if we can get even 6 months of good time with him, it's worth it, and I think he wants to fight on...everybody can see it in his eyes.

Hi guys, Figured I would start a new topic here to follow on from my last. Which was regarding my boy Thabo who has just been diagnosed with what is nearly certainly osteosarcoma. Post is here - http://www.dolforums.com.au/topic/254824-ostisarcoma-amputation/ I was just wondering if anybody can share some actual experiences with amputation surgery, recovery times and how the dog copes? I have heard some very positive stories so far!

Yeah, we lost Jake after a horrendous 12 month battle. He was PTS in October 2012. Just over 12 months ago and here we go again. I'm feeling more positive about this fight though, as there seems there are things we can do this time to help Thabo fight. Where as last time we had no diagnosis and no choice but guessing. If eventually turned out to be cancer but was only the last day or so it got diagnosed. Which was incredibly hard.

He has been getting around for almost a week now on 3 legs. The first vet we saw misdiagnosed his break as a sprain, and sent us home with NASAIDS. WHich didn't help, and we went back to another vet when nothing had changed 2 days later. He was diagnosed with the break officially yesterday but has been hobbling for a few days prior to that and even given the pain he must feel when moving, doing amazingly well. He quite literally just leapt through our garden bed when he went for a wee as we headed to bed just now...so he is already finding his feet, so to speak. I have weighed a lot of options, good, bad, for, against and all that. Our vet seems very positive and our boy is very happy, strong, brave and courageous...most importantly, I don't think he is ready to give up yet. I work from home, and spend 90% of my time with him...I think I'm very in tune with him and I just don't think he wants to give up either. As I said earlier, when I made the PTS decision with his brother....I beleive he told me in his own way that he was tired and didn't want to fight anymore. I just don't see it with Thabo. Me working from home also means I can spend a lot of time helping him get past his surgery...and making sure he is happy. Our vet has also said he thinks the tumor is quite early stages. He said most times he sees osteosarcoma, it's well advanced and much larger and more wide spread in the bone. Fortunately Thabo has has a break, which may very well be from a bad fall or knock, and potentially broken a healthy bone anyway, but which has allowed us to pick up on it 1-3 months earlier then normal. So he as much as the break is where the tumor lies, it's been a blessing in disguise that it's allowed us to diagnose him before he really started showing signs. The clear lungs also support this, and whilst I understand how osteosarcoma works and that is 99.999% likely it's already in his blood...hopefully we can get another 12 months with him and cherish his life and make him as happy as we can. I will post a pic tomorrow...I've been on my iphone and I can't see how to post a pic on here?? So I'll try on my pc.

We had a very good chat with out vet today, and had lung X-rays done, which came up clear. We have him booked for surgery Monday, obviously pending us making a decision over the weekend and being sure. The vet has told us he thinks at least 12 months with him, and 95% of that will be happy, quality time. He has also said it will most likely go to the lungs and that it will be quite quick when the time comes... We have also been told by a couple of specialists we have spoken to today, that there isn't much point doing surgery with no chemo...so we will opt for both. We are leaving towards surgery as he just seems so happy and wanting to fight...despite the discomfort of a broken leg and the pain of the tumor. If we can remove that, and get him past the 1-3 weeks of post op recovery, we can have another 12 or so months with our boy and prepare ourselves mentally for what is to come. We realise part of our decision is selfish...but when I made the PTS call on my other boy Jake, I could tell he wanted to give up by the look in his beautiful eyes...Thabo just doesn't seem to have that look, and his eyes tell me he wants to go on, just as much as we want him too. So we are ready to fight this and give him all the love and care he needs to get throught surgery and spend a quality 12 months with him. We are also currently investigating Chinese medicine, which we did with Jake and believed he got benefit from it. Even if we can prolong the cancer growth for a few months, it will be worth it we think. We still haven't 100% made a call either way, but we certainly feel surgery and fighting the brave fight with him is the best option.

We just spoke to Melbourne Uni specialist and are going in for some chest X-rays shortly...which, if it's spread will make our decision process more simplified. If it hasn't, we are weighing up the decision for surgery. But his broken leg, which is a pathological break, is like a ticking time bomb. He seems fairly happy at the moment but he HAS to be in pain...the vets have said the pathological break is less painful then a normal break, and he is in pain killers but even so it must be hurting like hell. So we need to make a decision ASAP.

He has been very happy up to date. Looking back, he has slowed down and slept a lot...but not really noticeably, and we had chalked it down to him getting older...and he has put on about 4kg from his peak weight...which would slow him down. Even now, he doesn't seem to be distressed. He is on pain killers until we come to a decision...but too look at him, he seems happy. Eating, drinking wagging his tail when we pat him. All in all, he seems happy. It's just blown us out of the water have to make a decision on what is basically a healthy dog...and to hear his best case is 12-18 months, is just mind blowing given the lack of symptoms before this.

Thing that sucks is that when I have needed courage over the last 11 years...it has actually come from him. Now I feel like I don't have him to prop me up and that is so, so, so tough and lonely.

Thank you so much everybody. It's amazing how much support can help in times like this...just knowing other people feel the pain and have been there before is an amazing boost. It's such an up and down ride. Tears and sobbing one minute and then feeling positive the next. I just spent 10 Mins out in the garden and when I came in the old boy was waiting for me on his bed, bright and alert and wagging his tail like mad....broken leg and all. He is incredibly brave and courageous. Such a hard choice when you see him like that. I wish I could have some of his courage myself.

Thanks guys And thanks spotted devil that advice. It's very true and an excellent point. I think the hard bit now is to actually be rational and think like that. The shock of it all has really knocked me and I am really struggling to gather myself back together.

Has anybody out there had experience with amputation of an older dog? That is one of the things that is holding us up too, if his age is going to make his recovery too hard. He is mental sharp as a tac, and physically good in every other way besides this p***k of a disease...it's such a hard choice.

It is a terribly tough journey. It's made worse by the fact he has a broken leg, and we don't have the choice of palliative care...we can let him suffer on and it's either amputate or make the tough choice. I wish we had more time to decide...I just am not ready to make this decision and 15 hours ago, my worst case was to have pins put on a possible broken leg...now this. It's such a raw slap in the face shock, yet I am trying to be strong and rational at the same time to do what's best for my old boy. People keep telling me that I'll know what's right ...but I really don't and that terrifies me.

Our vet has recommended chemo. All her prognosis are pretty much what you read on any forum. If we take his leg off, 4-6 months. If we do chemo too, maybe 12-18. Less then 5% chance of longer. Id do anything to spend more time with my boy, he is my shining light and has been such a unique dog with such personality. But I just don't know what to do here. I know I have to make the right choice, and I will make that choice based on what's best for him every single time...but there are so many unknowns.... How much will the surgery effect him ? He is 10 1/2 years old, so it will have a huge impact on him. Will he just get over the surgery to be riddled with cancer? Then suffer for weeks or months? Or will he get over the surgery and have another 6/7 months or more of quality life? Then I also wonder, as you always do in these cases..did the vets get it right? Is it ostisarcoma? Can we treat his broken leg and he will be ok. It's so bloody hard...just days ago he was my old mate, and following me around the garden and "helping" me out. Now we have the worst decision a dog owner can ever have to make...really, really sucks.

Thanks for the response guys. I have contacted Dave from that other post just to see if he has any thoughts on it all. We are stuck between putting out Boy through trauma or giving him peace. Every minute with him is special to us, and if we can get another happy 1-2 years with him...we think it will be worth it. But we don't want him to suffer for no reason...and we are worried we may be taking the option that keeps us happy, by which I mean amputation, and this may not give him the quality of life he deserves....bloody hard choice.

Hi guys, Just wondering if anybody out there're has had a dog with ostisarcoma and gone through an amputation? We have just had a worst case diagnosis and have 2 choices...either amputate or euthanize. It's in his back femur, and would be a leg and hip amputation. It's incredibly hard...so just wanting to hear other peoples thoughts.

Not as yet...but I am going to look that up now, and discuss with my vet. Thanks for the tip! Yeah, I agree. I dont want to put him through any more stress...and I suspect have no definitive diagnosis either. Since his last Ultrasound and needle Biposy Friday week ago, he just hasnt been himself. Up until then, his only real symptoms was the weeing constantly, with some blood at the end. Now he just seems very down and depressed and not himself at all. I dont know if the tests and vet experience have caused it, or if whatever he has is getting worse...but its awful to see him like this. :-(

I disagree Megan. As I said I understand business basics, I work for and have owned several small to medium businesses, in Hospitality and in Telecommunications. I can tell you 100% categorically, that if I served a customer a below average meal, or a customer had no phones for an extended period of time...I would not be asking them to pay, and they certainly wouldnt be expecting to pay. I have paid every bill to this vet without a complaint, despite it being 12 months of no result...but his last contact with me was very disappointing, hence my frustration. To open him up and diagnose something that they cannot even narrow down is ridiculous, and I laughed out loud when he said it. The original diagnosis was chest, so they wanted to cut him there, then his stomach, now his bladder? Theoretically they could have chopped him 3 times now. Its not good enough. My issue is that Vets just seems to put it in the too hard basket way to quickly, especially considering the amount of money I have spent at the current vet, and his attitude now is to give up on making a diagnosis. I also disagree with Vets making no money...yes, maybe a first year vet, or second, and the same would apply for a doctor. But partner in a large practice would be raking it in. I only need to look at the car he drives to know that is the case. All the vets I have visited have been large multi vet practices, and in 4 out of 6 cases...I have seen a partner at least for some of the consults. Our regular vet is a partner. But never once has there been a offer to reduce fees, or spend some time trying to get to the bottom of this. The last charge of $77 for looking at a drop of urine under a microscope is disgusting, and I was appaled. He was out of the room for all of 2 mins...and charged us the full price. Anyway, its not the point. My aim of this post was to get some suggestions on what may be Jakes illness, and I have had some good input on this and on other forums, which is much appreciated. I just wish vets would show as much interest in getting to the bottom of this. Is there a Dr Gregory House in the veterinary world?

Thats an interesting read Nekhbet. Thanks for that info. I agree, the fact they keep saying it "may be there but not showing up" just astounds me, especially given the amount of xrays and ultrasounds they have given him. The last two, had been told it was missing, and actually looked for it...still couldn't find it. It seems to me vets are of the train of thought, "what is likely is certain" and "what is unlikely is not possible." Which in this case, isnt helping...as he quite possibly has some odd auto immune disorder. I just cant believe the attitude of the vets ive been too. I accept that its tough to diagnose an animal that cant describe his symptoms, and I accept Jakes symptoms are quite obscure, and that cancer is possibly the correct diagnosis...but the vets seem to just be money grabbers. They charge me $300 for an Ultrasound, on a machine they own, and that took 15 minutes, and the only overheads on would be that it may consume $1 worth of power, TOPS...then proceed to tell me "we cant find anything", or "we dont know what we found." So what am I paying for? Because its certainly NOT an expert opinion. I would assume a person goes into veterinary science because they have a love for animals...so when does that love for animals, become a love of money? Obviously, I am becoming quite frustrated with the whole thing and vets in general. I can tell you, if I was a vet, and I was seeing a dog like this...it would have piqued my curiosity not to mention my want to try and help an animal...seems like vets just take my $$$, until they are out of answers, then give up, leaving Jake and I in the same place we were. And before anybody says it, I DO understand they need to make money as a business. But these vets have made their fair share off me, (By which I mean THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS of dollars) and we are still yet to give a definitive diagnosis...pretty piss poor IMHO.

Hey Dancin, Thats also my fear with Jake ...cutting him open, and putting him through that stress, would find nothing or, as I said above, incurable cancer. He is seeing Ann now, and has been for a couple of weeks, and another visit last night, she has adjusted his dosages, and added a few new herbs. This morning, he seems marginally brighter(he is currently chomping away on a pigs trotter on his bed in my office)...but its probably too early to tell, being only two doses in on the new meds. But fingers crossed we can get a result from her, as lot of other people seem to have...at least she offers some hope, unlike the "cut it and see" or "he is a goner" attitude of the other vets.

I am very reluctant to do that, especially as the only thing it is going to show is Cancer. He was really knocked around by the needle biopsy and anesthetic on Friday and I dont want to put him through a full anesthetic and surgery if I can avoid it. I know it would get us an answer, but it seems we are putting him through a lot, just for our own piece of mind. If it is cancer, and that biopsy confirms that...its untreatable, and doesnt really gain anything for Jake, other then trauma. Hopefully that makes sense...I would prefer to be able to treat him on other conditions, assuming its not cancer and not put Jake through anything more then he has been.

Hi Guys, Thanks SO MUCH for the responses so far! Much appreciated! He has been to Werribee back in September, (Xrays, blood & fluids and U/Sounds), and they are the ones who picked up the possible cancer in the chest cavity, and suggested that was the cause of the coughing and also was secondary to a tumour elsewhere, that was causing the Ascetis. Both those symptoms have resolved themselves, and our local vet thinks the masses may have just been lymphatic swelling, hence his tonsils also being enlarged and causing the cough...and another lymph in his tummy causing the swelling. We are currently seeing Anne, but without results thus far. She did explain it can be a lengthy process...so we are being patient. Its apparently missing or at least very hard to find. Several vets have had problems finding it...Werribee said its very rare to not have a spleen, and because of that discounted it as a cause. But I agree with your thoughts about the myriad of infections due to no spleen. Does anybody else have any more information or experience on missing spleens?

Hi Guys, I have a dog with a mystery illness. Ive posted the letter I've sent to several vets below, excuse the length of it! Lots of info. I realise the diagnosis of cancer is a big possibility...but Im not giving up on my mate just yet! If any body has any thoughts, or suggestions, please offer them! Or if there is actually a vet out there who cares enough to want to get to the bottom of this(willing to have a consult if possible), please help! The 6 vets Ive seen all just seem to want to charge me $$$ and then diagnose without really looking into it. I would just like to point out, I am not after yet another "cancer diagnosis", as I have heard this time and time again. My aim to post here is to try and find something else, or hear from a vet who has another theory. (I am more then willing to travel to see a vet(I live in Melb CBD) - given online diagnosis is useless). If you read below, you will hear why I dont believe cancer is a neat fit here...but I seem to be at a dead end, and cannot find a vet who will look deeper. Thanks in advance. ---------------------- I have an 8 year old Hungarian vizsla, Jake, who has had ongoing symptoms for at least 2 years. He has experienced a bout of what was diagnosed as Myosistitis, fluid in his abdomen, tonsillitis, and a bad cough/gag. Details as follows… Early 2010, Jake showed signs of being a bit off colour on two or three occasions. This was diagnosed as bouts of pancreatitis, due to fatty food intake and once treated went away. First half of 2011. He was showing signs of lethargy, lost a lot of weight and was quite unwell. During tests, a vet found his urine was quite diluted and suggested cushings disease and further tests were suggested. While we considered options, he seemed to come good, and got over this untreated. He regained weight, and seemed back to himself. This has not reoccurred. July/August 2011, he had extreme muscle and/or joint pain. Arthritis was the first diagnosis, but treatment failed to improve his symptoms. I googled and came up with a possible diagnosis of Myositis. He was placed on steroid treatment and the symptoms stopped in 3 or 4 days. This has not reoccurred. September 2011 Jake developed severe ascites in his tummy, he was given several ultrasounds and X-Rays, first of which showed a vague mass in his tummy. The subsequent xrays and ultrasounds found nothing to repeat that finding. He was then sent to a specialist clinic, who found to symmetrical masses in his chest, and he was diagnosed with Chest cancer, and given 3-6 months. Upon returning to our local vet, he suggested the masses found were too symmetrical and were possible swollen hilar lymphs. Jake also had tonsillitis, causing him to gag and cough. A link to lymphatic tissue swelling was suggested. Our local vet suggested possible lymphantasia. At the time, nothing was found that was suspicious in his bladder. 10 litres of fluid was drained, and Jake was placed on Aldactone and Macrolone. 2 weeks later, he was as good as he ever was. They also noted during testing that his spleen seemed to be missing. He has never had a return of Ascites. Early 2012 His latest symptom set began, which is that he is having an urge to constantly wee, and has been passing small amounts of blood at the very end of his wee. He also passed a finger sized lump of "congealed" puss recently, and upon squeezing his penis, I was able to get more puss to come out, and another blob. He hasnt had any signs of puss since that. He has also been experiencing small bouts of leaking urine beginning around a week ago. He doesn’t seem to be in any pain, but does appear to be a little depressed, which I would think is from the urge to urinate all the time. His appetite is fine, and no marked weight loss is noticeable. A recent ultrasound showed thickening of the bladder wall, which was possibly a tumour. So a sample of that was taken via needle, and the pathology result was as below... The variability in the cells both in the prostate and urine are suspicious for a carcinoma. The cells in the urine are consistent with transitional cells - while highly reactive transitional cells can have features similar to those seen here, in the absence of a cause (i.e. UTI/uroliths) the cellular variability is concerning for a tumor. The origin of the tumor is unclear. The cell populations in the urine and prostate are not identical. A tumor originating in the prostate could be of either prostatic or transitional cell origin. Spread throughout the urinary tract is possible particularly for a TCC - also variability within these tumors is also not uncommon depending on the depth of sampling. Consider biopsy to confirm the diagnosis No diagnosis has been accurate or consistent up to now and he has been to at least 5 different vets. We are at wits end! We are a little but concerned that we aren’t getting anywhere with his diagnosis, and once again the above doesn’t confirm or deny cancer. My concern is that he has had symptoms on and off for months and months...if it is cancer, surely it would be degenerative, and symptoms wouldn’t be coming and going. For example, if cancer was causing his cough, surely that would be still present? Or if it was causing his ascites, surely that would have reoccurred? It seems he gets a symptom set, then it disappears and another appears. I cant help but think he has some obscure infection or auto immune disorder, that vets locally are missing... What is really frustrating, is none of them seem to want to get to the bottom of it, and are happy to latch on to whatever the most obvious diagnosis “could” be. Nothing has been conclusive, and if cancer is present in his chest, bladder and stomach…surely he would have other signs, or at least re-occurrence of his previous symptoms. I realise cancer is still very real possibility…but something just doesn’t sit right…and I am not willing to give up just yet…hence trying online for a solution!