skelp2

What on earth does this mean - "I provide my dogs with a detoxification protocol..."???

As I said, it seems that none of you have physically been there and are relying on the written word to base your opinions. What I found quite disgusting in this thread is that some of you have allowed those opinions and the moral outrage you obviously feel, as a result of what you perceive, to degenerate into online harassment and outright nastiness and you seem to revel in it, egging each other on to continue harassing. If you are so outraged by this rescue organisation and the RSPCA are investigating them, why not leave them to do so? Why then continue to make life difficult for people who are trying to help? The thread initially intrigued me, and I found that I probably wasted too much time, that could probably have been spent far better, going through 100+ pages of abject nastiness. My conclusion is that there are little people who spend their little lives sitting on a keyboard trying to stir up trouble, for no other reason than they enjoy it. I can't be bothered responding any further because it is pointless. I will leave you to continue your harassment.

I can only surmise from your responses that none of you who are detractors have physically been there, and that your opinions are based on hearsay? Ever heard of the game Chinese Whispers.

Are you saying Moorook is a well respected organisation? I want to check you really mean that. If you have read this thread you should know a bit more about what really happens at Moorook. I guess if you think hoarders who are up on some pretty serious cruelty charges and keep unrehomeable dogs for years on end in small cages till they go mad are well respected then I don't think anything I say will change your mind. I won't even start on the cat situation Thankfully most people know this is wrong and are doing all they can to help these animals after years of rspca inactivity. I gather you have been there then, have inspected the premises thoroughly and know everything there is to know about it, based on your personal observations?

In the process of looking for a rescue dog for myself, I stumbled across this thread and read through quite a lot of it, as it intrigued me why some people seemed to be so incredibly passionate with their derision of what seems to be a well known and well respected organisation. I must admit to being stunned and actually quite disgusted at the level of nastiness and vindictiveness shown to a rescue organisation and to those who have tried to help them. Have some of you nothing better to do with your lives than sit behind a keyboard to sling innuendo and invective at people? Are you all perhaps retired, or are perhaps bitter and/or bored and have so much time on your hands that you spend it being keyboard vigilantes? Have any of you actually been to this rescue organisation and helped them out at any time? I am sure that there are lots of rescue centres or organisations out there who may need volunteers. Perhaps your time would be better spent helping people or dogs than hindering and harassing them?

Having spent a bit of time in the outback, it was common to see Dingo crossbreds. They often retain the white tip on the end of their tail, which is common in a dingo. Your dog certainly may have some dingo, but looks a little too heavy boned to have much of either dingo or kelpie. There is possibly something else in the mix perhaps? I gather that Dingos in alpine regions tend to be heavier set than those from the outback. If he has a good nature, the dingo in him should not be a concern. They make good companions but tend to be aloof with strangers.

If you have a "mean" dog then it is your responsibility to keep it under complete control. "Accidents happen" simply isn't good enough. An extremely sensible article!

...and not everyone can view OT. I have to ask. What is OT?

Perhaps many people in Gympie are not in a position to adopt an animal, given that they have had quite disastrous flooding both this year and last, if memory serves me correctly. If you have lost your home, are renting temporary accommodation or are still waiting on repairs to your home and fencing, the last thing you would do is add a pet, surely?

The concept of their own imminent death or that of an owner or another dog perhaps? I would suspect that there is a huge amount of irrefutable evidence that dogs understand when an owner, or another animal that they live with, is dying or has died. Dogs do grieve, do they not? As with any mammal in particular, they also understand when their own life is in danger and react accordingly, using the flight or fight response. In regards to this particular situation, it is a shame that the son chose to follow his mother's wishes. People who know they are dying do not always make rational decisions, just as people who are not dying also can make stupid decisions. In my opinion, this woman's decision was not entirely different to people who choose to have a fairly young and healthy dog put down for other nefarious reasons. Yes - ask any person involved in killing dogs in pounds and shelters. I suspect they know exactly what is about to happen to them. The airy fairy idea that this dog did not "suffer" in any way before being killed is just denial of the reality IMO. Some may be fearful of the smells and strange people but they really don't have a clue about death. I have been on both sides, I have held animals as they were PTS when I was doing vet nursing and I also am a cognitive researcher who has done research with dogs in order to determine what they are capable of doing and understanding. I can tell you right now there are no papers that demonstrate dogs understand death, but plenty that provide evidence they don't. Your anecdotes are just that, your own experience coloured by your emotions and it is not evidence. Trust me, if dogs could be shown to demonstrate the cognitive capabilities to understand death there's be a Nature paper and you couldn't escape the press, it would be huge news. We think non-human apes might have a limited ability to think into the future but dogs can't. Do some feel a bit of fear because of the vet clinic and someone holding their leg, sure, but it's fantasy to believe they know they are going to die. So let's not scare people with misinformation. Oh, I see, you know exactly what every dog is thinking, or not thinking. Funnily enough yes, you do your experiments the right way you can confidently extrapolate your findings to the species as a whole :laugh: Can you post a linky to your work disputing the current literature? Where did you publish :D So you experiment on dogs? Hmmm, interesting. One benefit of age is that you come to understand that not all things on this earth can or will be explained by 'science'. I will give you a little challenge. How, scientifically of course, would you explain why a dog would exhibit unusual behaviour (pacing, panting, obviously stressed) at the same time as it's owner dies unexpectantly, and whilst that owner is not present ie: at another location? I knew you didn't know enough about cognitive research and would come back with suspicion :laugh: Cognitive research involves setting up tasks for the dog (or other animal) to do with a reward at the end. They love it because they get to play games. How you set up the task depends on what you are trying to learn, how they solve the task tells you what they are capable of. Those anecdotes are just that, stories that are unproven. You can't eliminate human bias as an explanation for what is described. As a scientist you can't just believe what you read in books without proof, anyone can write a book, doesn't make it true. I would be a bad scientist if I believed what someone told me without any evidence especially when the carefully controlled experiments say otherwise. You know nothing about my background. I don't pretend to have any great knowledge of animal behaviour, being an electrical engineer by trade. Setting up tasks with a reward at the end is only an extention of Pavlov's experiments in conditional response, is it not? What I am suggesting is that you have made quite bold statements about what dogs can comprehend, based on what is an inexact science ie: claiming an exact understanding of how dogs think. You seem to expect everyone else to bow to your perceived superiority on the subject. Testing on the psyche of mammals, higher order mammals such as dogs, dolphins, chimps etc.. will never be exact, because their communication is not verbal. Even human psychiatry is an inexact science, despite humans being able to verbalise. You can brush off my challenge as anecdotal,which I expected, but it seems it is impossible to explain it scientifically.

The concept of their own imminent death or that of an owner or another dog perhaps? I would suspect that there is a huge amount of irrefutable evidence that dogs understand when an owner, or another animal that they live with, is dying or has died. Dogs do grieve, do they not? As with any mammal in particular, they also understand when their own life is in danger and react accordingly, using the flight or fight response. In regards to this particular situation, it is a shame that the son chose to follow his mother's wishes. People who know they are dying do not always make rational decisions, just as people who are not dying also can make stupid decisions. In my opinion, this woman's decision was not entirely different to people who choose to have a fairly young and healthy dog put down for other nefarious reasons. Yes - ask any person involved in killing dogs in pounds and shelters. I suspect they know exactly what is about to happen to them. The airy fairy idea that this dog did not "suffer" in any way before being killed is just denial of the reality IMO. Some may be fearful of the smells and strange people but they really don't have a clue about death. I have been on both sides, I have held animals as they were PTS when I was doing vet nursing and I also am a cognitive researcher who has done research with dogs in order to determine what they are capable of doing and understanding. I can tell you right now there are no papers that demonstrate dogs understand death, but plenty that provide evidence they don't. Your anecdotes are just that, your own experience coloured by your emotions and it is not evidence. Trust me, if dogs could be shown to demonstrate the cognitive capabilities to understand death there's be a Nature paper and you couldn't escape the press, it would be huge news. We think non-human apes might have a limited ability to think into the future but dogs can't. Do some feel a bit of fear because of the vet clinic and someone holding their leg, sure, but it's fantasy to believe they know they are going to die. So let's not scare people with misinformation. Oh, I see, you know exactly what every dog is thinking, or not thinking. Funnily enough yes, you do your experiments the right way you can confidently extrapolate your findings to the species as a whole :laugh: Can you post a linky to your work disputing the current literature? Where did you publish :D So you experiment on dogs? Hmmm, interesting. One benefit of age is that you come to understand that not all things on this earth can or will be explained by 'science'. I will give you a little challenge. How, scientifically of course, would you explain why a dog would exhibit unusual behaviour (pacing, panting, obviously stressed) at the same time as it's owner dies unexpectantly, and whilst that owner is not present ie: at another location?

The concept of their own imminent death or that of an owner or another dog perhaps? I would suspect that there is a huge amount of irrefutable evidence that dogs understand when an owner, or another animal that they live with, is dying or has died. Dogs do grieve, do they not? As with any mammal in particular, they also understand when their own life is in danger and react accordingly, using the flight or fight response. In regards to this particular situation, it is a shame that the son chose to follow his mother's wishes. People who know they are dying do not always make rational decisions, just as people who are not dying also can make stupid decisions. In my opinion, this woman's decision was not entirely different to people who choose to have a fairly young and healthy dog put down for other nefarious reasons. Yes - ask any person involved in killing dogs in pounds and shelters. I suspect they know exactly what is about to happen to them. The airy fairy idea that this dog did not "suffer" in any way before being killed is just denial of the reality IMO. Some may be fearful of the smells and strange people but they really don't have a clue about death. I have been on both sides, I have held animals as they were PTS when I was doing vet nursing and I also am a cognitive researcher who has done research with dogs in order to determine what they are capable of doing and understanding. I can tell you right now there are no papers that demonstrate dogs understand death, but plenty that provide evidence they don't. Your anecdotes are just that, your own experience coloured by your emotions and it is not evidence. Trust me, if dogs could be shown to demonstrate the cognitive capabilities to understand death there's be a Nature paper and you couldn't escape the press, it would be huge news. We think non-human apes might have a limited ability to think into the future but dogs can't. Do some feel a bit of fear because of the vet clinic and someone holding their leg, sure, but it's fantasy to believe they know they are going to die. So let's not scare people with misinformation. Oh, I see, you know exactly what every dog is thinking, or not thinking.

The concept of their own imminent death or that of an owner or another dog perhaps? I would suspect that there is a huge amount of irrefutable evidence that dogs understand when an owner, or another animal that they live with, is dying or has died. Dogs do grieve, do they not? As with any mammal in particular, they also understand when their own life is in danger and react accordingly, using the flight or fight response. In regards to this particular situation, it is a shame that the son chose to follow his mother's wishes. People who know they are dying do not always make rational decisions, just as people who are not dying also can make stupid decisions. In my opinion, this woman's decision was not entirely different to people who choose to have a fairly young and healthy dog put down for other nefarious reasons.

so can I I can't understand why anyone would want their healthy and relatively young dog to be put down, because they were dying themselves. It seems a very callous and selfish act.

Clever videos. Loca doesn't seem to be suffering all that much either and lives a seemingly happy life with a caring family, so why all the negative responses I wonder?

I can only add my sympathy for your loss Cazstaff. It was a very sad and unnecessary way to lose an obviously much loved old dog.

Dear me, exaggeration much? Hankdog is most likely correct. Happy, normal people don't usually dislike certain breeds of dogs, to the point where they will take a photo and threaten to report someone for having a dog that may look something like a pit bull. The term 'bitter old busybody' comes to mind. Staffyluv, if you see her taking your photo again, I would suggest you take a photo of her, and advise her that it's evidence if she continues to stalk you. It may make her think about her actions.

Hoping your dog improves Dogbesotted. Has the Vet looked deep in his ears and up his nose? I pulled a tick off my own head last week. Friends nearly lost their dog twice with ticks. They switched from Advantix to Preventic collars and the dog never had another tick. Possibly coincidental but they feel it worked better. My sister also uses Preventic on her dogs with no issues. I suspect I will use them when I eventually get a dog.

I do have to admit to being stunned that anyone would even consider feeding an animal, that has essentially evolved as a predator and therefore mostly carnivorous, anything other than what that animal is designed to eat? Why do we humans feel it OK to inflict our lifestyle choices on our pets, who rely on us to feed them? If your dog is eating factory farmed animals and it bothers you, what's wrong with the range of free range meat available these days? Humans don't poop in the backyard and sniff each others bums and dogs are not vegetarian.

My sister has an issue with one local dog that barks aggressively at her and her dogs every time she walks past that house. The yard is fenced but is only about chest high and has nothing to define front and back yards. It wouldn't matter if the fence was higher, the aggression from this dog has traumatised one of her dogs, to the point where she can't walk anywhere near that street anymore, as her dog puts on the brakes and will not go any further. This limits and restricts her to walking her dogs on the same route every day. It may be fine to keep a dog in the front yard if that dog does not react to the other dogs, but when they do, it can impact on others, especially those who have timid dogs that don't cope well with barking and aggression from other dogs.

Cruel? They just go to sleep and die. There are far more cruel methods of getting rid of foxes. Populations of Fairy or Little Penguins are also at critically endangered levels due to fox predation along the Vic and NSW coasts, as they nest on land. Humans introduced foxes to Australia, and it is our responsibility to remove them, so why the angst about a humane method?

Yes, I did.

There seems to be a hell of a lot of conjecture in this thread, based on a small article which basically states that it is the owner and his mate's word against the attack victim's word. What's the point in arguing about it. The only people who know the truth were those who witnessed the attack. The dog could be deemed 'dangerous' because of his breed or perceived breed - restricted because he is a dog that looks rather like a pitbull? Many Qld Councils have pitbulls on their dangerous or restricted dog lists I understand. I looked up the story, which shows a photo of the dog. It looks like a mixed breed/pitbull cross perhaps. If there was a road rage incident and the dog attack victim was moving towards and/or acting aggressively towards the dog's owner, then the dog was defending his owner. If not, then perhaps the dog is aggressive? Who knows? I don't see the point in all the argument when no-one here actually knows the truth?

And what is wrong with a Subaru? :laugh: Friends live in a gated estate that is a koala area. Dogs are welcome, fences are not though, so either the dogs are chained up, on a running wire or kept in a wire enclosure. They have had no issues with dogs attacking koalas. Male koalas make a lot of noise at times, especially at night. It would have to be a 'Greens' idiot who thinks it is fine to move 40,000 people in to an area, but not allow dogs. Do they not realize how much impact that human population would have?

How do you know that? It seems that mixeduppup's conjecture was actually correct. The child was definitely involved in the theft, as were his parents or family.