eyeopener

Could I please ask to see any pics members may have of dog run set ups? We are about to remodel for the 4th time & I am determined to get it right n working for me. My dogs don''t spend a whole lot of time in them although there can be times they are used more & need to be escape proof. I would like to not go the concrete route n what I have been doing is using a steel grating around the edges shallowly buried to deter any digging, I also like to make platforms that the dogs like to sit on or use in play, best 1 we had had a ramp up each side n they would play on it n sit up there all the time so if anyone has any ideas for platforms etc that would be great too.

I don't think mine suffer too much :) Although I am sure they would prefer a leather lounge :)

When I get rich enough to snakemesh 5 acres, then they can have free access to that area

Love it!! I have similar but not as good but that's what I want to do with all the weld mesh we have. Can you look the inside bit. I would like that but with a divider through the middle that can be left open too. Actually I love to see heaps of pen ideas as we are about to remodel.

There is but 1 Tasmanian TM breeder & the kennel has had a few litters over the last 4yrs.

Yeah, i thought they were alot of dog too. This one was black.

I asked if he got on with the 2 staffys ok, and he said he played with the male one, but gave the female a wide birth.

He is keeping him entire to show.

He didn't seem that dog savvy, he said his staffys sometimes fight, he said the male always started it

Oh dear! I imagine some problems in the future when TM grows up. Poor dogs mnight suffer from the sounds of this.

Should not be an issue if raised correctly my entires best mate is another entire small breed male.

Nothing to do with whether dogs are entire or not. The owner is already having problems with his existing dogs and he has brought in a third.

Oh yes very true I did not read that entire answer well enough sorry.

I am often amazed to find out the breeds people choose that are totally unsuitable for their lifestyle etc & think it has a big part of why dogs end up needing rehomed. That & the ability of pet shops n some breeders to totally ignore the fact the breed is unsuitable.

Too be honest I try not too count these days, we have 2 cats n 3 small breed dogs in it some night, lol.... We are just about to get a King bed, lol....

It's interesting the range of responses.

Sway I contain my dogs to my farm there is no way they would be in someone else's paddocks to be shot. Because I have lived on properties all my life & come from a farming background I was brought up knowing a loose dog on someone else's farm will be shot & questions asked later. Like you I have crates, runs, kennels n yards too & do use them when needed. I have several dogs well enough trained n old enough to be trusted to do their own thing but the 2 bitches still come in at night for 1 reason only & that is so they could never even be suspected if someone's livestock where attacked. My problem is with these forms of containment being over used.

I have 1 rescue here who spends the margority of his time in a well appointed n good sized dog run as its the only way to keep him atm but I do know he is not that happy with it. He gets run 5 km a day walked several km n swims every single day plus training 4 times a wk but it still bugs me as I know he wants more. Slowly he is getting more too but it has to be as he can be trusted etc too. So when I hear of dogs spending a whole working day crated then again at night I do think it's too much.

I never meant I was a better owner etc n think maybe you guys read that into my post. Just because I don't agree dose not mean I think I am better than anyone else.

I never said it was bad to work or to contain your dogs just not sure all day in a crate while someon goes to work or kennelled all wk n only taken out of a weekend is right thing.

I just try & make my dogs life's as full n varied as I possibly can & only contain in crates or smaller runs when necessary but see no prob with dogs inside houses of a day or backyards n decent sized dog runs as long as they are exercised daily n have enough interaction with their family etc.

I just know my dogs would hate to be crated for several hrs everyday n then again at night constantly, of course bitches whelping, sick or injuries dogs are different again.

So do most caring, responsible dog owners, regardless of where they live.

Most of us contain our dogs. All we are now talking about is the size of the containment. Have you seen the U-tube clip of the greyhound on the couch. It doesn't move.. all day!!

And as for what makes a dog "happy"?? I certainly don't agree with the complete social isolation that many urban dogs are subjected to (kept in backyard, not allowed inside, not walked). Frankly I'm surprised more of such dogs aren't stark raving mad.

I am sure they do. Would the greyhound still be on the lounge if he had something to stimulate him? Just playing devils advocate here as I know many a greyhound n yep most r lounge lizards given the chance to be, lol.

Yeah, i thought they were alot of dog too. This one was black.

I asked if he got on with the 2 staffys ok, and he said he played with the male one, but gave the female a wide birth.

He is keeping him entire to show.

He didn't seem that dog savvy, he said his staffys sometimes fight, he said the male always started it

Oh dear! I imagine some problems in the future when TM grows up. Poor dogs mnight suffer from the sounds of this.

Should not be an issue if raised correctly my entires best mate is another entire small breed male.

TM's are lovely dogs but definitely not for the average pet owner. They can be challenging. Also classed as a livestock guardian though can work a bit differently. Can be VERY territorial and need a very strong leader. Don't always get on with other dogs. Cute as puppies though that is for sure and a breed I greatly admire.

Alot depends on the bloodlines as not all TMs are the same guardian n territorial wise.

If socialised I have never had an issue n can have entire males together & do. Don't socialise or put the time in watch out & they can be night barkers & very destructive if not raised correctly or have enough daily exercise etc.

It's easy to assume that what we've always done or what we do now is good for our dogs and it's what they want because that's what we want. No one asks the dog. I've been 'asking the dog' in my research and the results so far have disturbed me. I don't have the numbers to draw any conclusions, but honestly, I don't think the way we keep suburban dogs is necessarily very dog friendly. This includes my dogs. They will be noisy in our yard if left there unsupervised for long periods, and they get 90 minutes of exercise and training a day and most of their food in frozen Kongs, bones, and treat dispensing toys. I work from home and they are with me most of the time, but are they happy? Were they happy when I worked in the city and they were cooped up indoors all day every day? I couldn't say. In some Scandinavian countries, it's not really socially acceptable to have dogs if you work full time. It's considered kind of cruel. Wrong? I couldn't say. It makes me very uneasy. Not just because I badly want dogs and full time work, but because so many people here do that it's not on the agenda. What if those northerners are onto something? How can we tell if we won't even consider it? Maybe if we had the data we could petition more businesses to allow dogs to accompany owners to work.

Well I can say some of my dogs where miserable when we where in town but they already knew farm life n where guardian breeds, yet my poodle thrived in town loved going for a cuppa at an outdoor cafe etc. So I decided, maybe some dogs are better suited to suburban lifestyles than some other breeds. I think as long as we keep their minds stimulated n their bodies well exercised on a daily basis most dogs cab adapt to most lifestyles. What worries me is when people talk of of getting their dogs out n about of a weekend n maybe a quick mid wk walk & keeping them confined to crates while at works etc as I just know that would not be enough daily mental n physical stimulation.

I never said it was bad to work or to contain your dogs just not sure all day in a crate while someon goes to work or kennelled all wk n only taken out of a weekend is right thing.

I just try & make my dogs life's as full n varied as I possibly can & only contain in crates or smaller runs when necessary but see no prob with dogs inside houses of a day or backyards n decent sized dog runs as long as they are exercised daily n have enough interaction with their family etc.

I just know my dogs would hate to be crated for several hrs everyday n then again at night constantly, of course bitches whelping, sick or injuries dogs are different again.

okay answer this if crates are cruel for your dog to go in during the day bearing in mind I live on acerage

Latte my very active coolie. Gets up in the morning from her crate, goes outside zooms around the yard at a hundred miles an hour. Her dog brother and sister both of whom she adores and they adore her gets put in a roomy pen out the back having also slept in the house. To get Latte into the pen you have to carry her in there as she absolutely refuses to go in there otherwise and when she does she barks.

If you can't find her to put her in the pen, go upstairs,she follows you and open her crate door and she runs into it and settles down immediately. She stays there until about 4 pm when my housemate gets home. Runs around more for hours, comes inside, is generally pretty tired and will more often than not puts herself in her crate and settles down for the night. Otherwise when the others go to bed she goes immeidately into her crate, settles down and not a murmer

So my question is why does Latte prefer her crate rather than a roomy pen during the day?

Because that's where she feel safest doesn't mean she thought it through well though or that when u leave she doesn't think damn I should have picked the run either, lol. But seriously all dogs are individuals but I bet if your dog would not stay in crate all day if she had you home or someone to stimulate her.

Ok I use crates, dog runs etc but they are not the place any of my dogs(bar 1) spend much time & I am often seeing people saying their dogs are crated all day while they are at work etc. For me crates are for transporting, containing dogs for short periods of time if needed, sick or injuries animals & for beds(we leave door open though). Not a living arrangement & somewhere to leave any dog for more than a couple of hrs & believe those that need to contain dogs while they work etc should invest in a well constructed dog run.

I also see many dogs who are confined to a kennel n run all week & then take out of the weekend or maybe once midweek & I feel if this is all the time you have for a dog don't have 1, my dogs come n go in n out of the house n some have full access to the entire farm & I know they would be miserable spending all the down time n contained times some other dogs have to do in a day or wk.

Am I way off base here?

You "often" see people say their dogs are crated all day while they are at work? You must move in very different circles to me because I don't know of anyone who does this and quite frankly the overwhelming majority of dogs are kept in backyards by owners who don't own crates.

If you wondered why you copped some flack, then consider for a moment the tone of your opening post. Basically you've said "my dogs go where ever they like when ever they like and this is the correct way to keep a dog".

Well, my dogs don't go where ever they like. Like the vast majority of Australians I'm an urban dweller and my dogs are confined to a house and yard. They are further confined by a lead on most days when I walk them. I also work.

So the conclusion I must draw is that you think my dogs are miserable. And you wonder why folk weren't impressed.

Whippets that roam are Whippets that die... often under a car. I'll keep my dogs "miserable" thanks because it keeps them alive.

No I didn't I said I have a couple who can have full access n I said 1 actually spent a bit of time contained. Then in a further post I stated that have containment areas n I do use them as needed.

I have no issues with contained to a yard if walked its the crating while at work then again at night n those that use dog runs as a dogs place n only ever get out at weekend etc.

OP, I'd be interested to know where you get the impression of dogs being crated all day from. As far as I'm aware, it's an extremely uncommon practice to crate during the day in Australia, it's more of a US thing. Nevertheless, many people have to work outside the home, and they have to do something to keep their dogs safe. I work full-time, but I don't consider that it makes me a bad dog owner. My dog is crate trained and will happily spend all day at a show asleep in her crate when she isn't being groomed, walked, shown or fussed over, she runs full-tilt into it twice a day for her meals, and considers it her treasure cave where special toys or treats are taken to enjoy. I don't crate her while I'm at work, she is either in the house with close to free run now that she is well-mannered enough be trusted inside, or in the backyard. I don't know anyone who would crate all day in similar circumstances unless the dog is being confined for health reasons.

I have heard several people lately say they keep their dog crated all day whilst they are at work.

No working dose not make you a bad dog owner at all. As I have said no issues with a dog run just the crate for so long seems extreme. When questioned many say their breeder says its fine to crate them while they work n even again at night.

Full access to the entire farm..... sounds like a recipe for lots of dead livestock, dead wildlife and snake-bitten dogs to me.

How wonderful that all your dogs in the past, present and future will get on with each other, not even think of harrassing other animals and not wander on to the road and cause a fatal accident - unless you are saying your entire farm is bordered by dog-proof fencing?

Different management systems for different situations...You are no more familiar with Eyeopeners system than they are with yours,so since it was asked if the perspective was way off base,an explanation would be fair?

I am lucky enough to live in a similar situation to Eyeopers,but I realise how lucky that is after my introduction to DOL.

Out of 5,some times 6 dogs only one is regularly in a kennel run,and I feel awful for her,and guilty though shes out every day and part of the evening.I'll take care in choosing the next to avoid that.

My dogs are trained to stay in the acre yard unless out with one of us by invitation,and in the house together if we are out,on their beds and toys /company for any pups.Live stock some times shares the yard,chooks always and lots of wild life.The only one who MAY break the rules is the one kenneled when we can't keep an eye on her.

We walk the rest with out leads on the rest of the property when we do,usualy when snakes are less active.The dogs have good recall.We don't have dead live stock,plenty of live wildlife here darting out underfoot with no kills yet.

I can understand the need to crate for most,But I think there can be over reliance on crating for some and it shouldn't always be the 1st option.

I know I am lucky,and would learn to crate if I had to live like most others.But good management and breeding comes into it too,so we have dogs that fit into the circumstances they are bred for,and that they go to those places.It shouldn't be a case of "putting them away when not in use",but breeding and choosing dogs who are not a nuisance.

There are good reasons to crate,for some they are excuses and it is open to abuse.

I am in the same situation and also agree that some people reply on crates a little too much. I personally dont believe a dog should be crated all day (sure some dogs are old/infirm so this is different). But I dont agree with a healthy, active dog being crated all day and then again overnight. My dogs are out around the property during the day and sleep indoors overnight. Occasionally I will crate the Pug if I'm dashing out, but if Im out for more than an hour , two of the dogs go in the runs. I always make sure they are not confined for more than 4 hours in the one day, and this is probably only once a week. The rest of the dogs are out free ranging with the other animals 24/7.

Agreed - but I have breeds and dogs which just get on together. I often hear stories of breeders with other breeds and realise how easy I have it. Mine free range all the time and at most they may be confined in a backyard sized fenced area when on heat or if we are laying concrete. Ive never used crate training but I do put a large pen 8 feet square around the whelping box when almost due to whelp so they don't mess up the rest of the house when in labour - as soon as they have their puppies the baracade is taken away. We have sheep, chooks ,ducks,cats and magpies which share space with them and no need of crates.

I have my pot plants and lots of stuff in pens so the dogs cant wreck them and the dogs run free rather than the other way around.

So funny same here we have plants n good wooden outdoor furniture locked up from the dogs

Thank you for your considered replies that's more along the lines I expected when I posted.

I confine my dogs at times for their n my best interest but was just surprised with the amount of hrs some feel is ok to confine their dogs for.

I did as if I was off base with the majorities feelings on the subject so had no issues if I was not agreed with.

To me they have a service n are needed at different times but personally if I needed to crate a dog all day every day whilst I worked I would make it a dog run.

I would be worried about my training abilities if my dogs where unable to be trusted on the farm by time they where several yrs old, would never let a youngster free access though. Some dogs I have are breed to be naturally protective n gentle with livestock n other animals though.

Thanks again for the replies.

Why are you getting upset and bagging out the forum? You made some statements, asked for opinions and now you don't like the responses. If you don't want other people's input, don't invite it, end of story.

No worries just surprise with the manner of the answers n truly did not realise this was common practise to lock dogs in runs or crates all day everyday. No worries, I'm not upset as nothing to be upset about just surprised n dismayed I guess

Umm the rest of that sentence was if a dog is left in a dog run all week n only taken out on weekend or maybe mid week they don't have time for a dog. I find it hard to believe you all think that's ok n that its harsh for me to think that.

My goodness sorry I spoke your a real friendly bunch hay it was just a question. My dogs are all but 1 locked up of a night, they are locked up when not supervised but my daily jobs are around the property n I switch n change dogs as needed n depending on what I am doing at the time but they all get plenty of free time. When they aren't out with me they have backyards, runs n houses to follow us about in.

I use crates, chains, runs etc just was asking if other thought they may be getting over used. But don't worry I now know why I was warned not to post here

Full access to the entire farm..... sounds like a recipe for lots of dead livestock, dead wildlife and snake-bitten dogs to me.

How wonderful that all your dogs in the past, present and future will get on with each other, not even think of harrassing other animals and not wander on to the road and cause a fatal accident - unless you are saying your entire farm is bordered by dog-proof fencing?

I would not give full access to a dog that would touch livestock as here they don't get second chances & that's why jot ALL dogs have full access. As for snake bites just as likely in a run or backyard I'm afraid.

Not all my dogs get along but you manage that not lock them down,

Wow talk about touchy subject.

Your debate is very simplistic. You haven't taken into account owners who have dogs who do not get on together, owners who have neighbours who will tease/abuse or complain about dogs left in runs outside, and dogs that are destructive.

Whether the dog is crated, locked inside a house, locked in an outdoor run or free in a fenced backyard, the dogs movements and ability to do doggy things is still restricted in some way.

Lucky you having a farm for your dog to exercise on. If urban dwellers are lucky, there might be a safe park within a few k's to take their dog too.

I have dogs that don't go together but we just share time n 1 will b inside while other is outside or 1 in the run n 1 in the yard etc. I also own multiply dogs but then again my animals are my life & I never leave home for more than an hr generally. Lock own to go big food shopping every few weeks & any trips that take longer than that 1 of us stays home or we employ a pet n livestock sitter.

I had a dingo when I was younger n she lived just as my other dogs did as I knew no better at the time but she would only eat when I feed here was timid n if felt had no opinion to run away n felt trapped would bite n attack. Her recall was quite good unless she was cashing a rabbit then forget it. She lived happily with my cats n chooks n never killed anything. Only animals she ever hunted where rabbits n crop quails. She was incredibly athletic n could clear or scale all fencing but luckily enough never wanted to go far but I always double tied her instead a dog run of a night as I never wanted her to get blame if there was any dog attacks on sheep anywhere near us.

All in all she was a great dog but not your average family pet either & till the day she died she only ever let me pat her without looking like it was torture, lol.

Ok I use crates, dog runs etc but they are not the place any of my dogs(bar 1) spend much time & I am often seeing people saying their dogs are crated all day while they are at work etc. For me crates are for transporting, containing dogs for short periods of time if needed, sick or injuries animals & for beds(we leave door open though). Not a living arrangement & somewhere to leave any dog for more than a couple of hrs & believe those that need to contain dogs while they work etc should invest in a well constructed dog run.

I also see many dogs who are confined to a kennel n run all week & then take out of the weekend or maybe once midweek & I feel if this is all the time you have for a dog don't have 1, my dogs come n go in n out of the house n some have full access to the entire farm & I know they would be miserable spending all the down time n contained times some other dogs have to do in a day or wk.

Am I way off base here?

Wow similar to how my TM's work then although they do boundary patrols while the maremma stays with the flock. Can take my TMs to town but not the maremma so much. Is there anyone breeding the pry mastiffs in Australia?