M United

Someone was telling me yesterday that he some sort of staffy tied up near some restaurants in canberra. He was going to go for a hello but saw a leather muzzle on it and decided against it. Lucky he did when he was near it (walking on the footpath) the dog lunged at him to attack him and just missed him. No owner in sight. God knows what would happen if a kid walks past. Risky business leaving your dog tied up.

Its been done before (dogs riding skateboards) lol. Good idea i should do it with my dog because she goes nuts (only barking and chase) when she sees a bike or skateboard near her.

If he lives in housing commission he is not allowed to own a declared dangerous dog. As soon as Housing Commission get wind of him having a dog that is declared dangerous (the Council will likely alert them), they will insist the dog is removed. Because you can't rehome a declared dog, unless he moves he will have to put the dog to sleep. He will also not be able to build the enclosure in his housing commission property. Not going to fight his battle for him i helped him out as much as i can, he can do the rest.

As long as he's careful & he doesn't accidently let the dog escape via the front door, then he could be in trouble...but I agree they are hardly going to inspect where he is sleeping at midnight! He is actually pretty careful. If its a stinking hot night and he has his window open, his dog is tied to a long lead overnight. and you know this how? The "owner" told you? The same person who is carrying the muzzle instead of putting it on his dog? Yes you are correct.

Well i thought i would introduce myself to the forum with a bang.

As long as he's careful & he doesn't accidently let the dog escape via the front door, then he could be in trouble...but I agree they are hardly going to inspect where he is sleeping at midnight! He is actually pretty careful. If its a stinking hot night and he has his window open, his dog is tied to a long lead overnight.

Ye i told him that there not going to do inspections at midnight when your sleeping. I said just get a cage if they require it.

A cage in the backyard for his dog to sleep overnight. But his dog sleeps in the house which is locked. So not sure how that would work.

I myself see around 5-20 skateboards in a 15 hour day every day. Anyhow i had a chat to him and he said if he loses the appeal he is going to comply with everything they ask. He doesn't want to lose his dog. Good on him. The cage in the backyard though would be hard to comply as his dog sleeps in his house.

Yes this is exactly what i wanted to do, and get advise and feedback from people who has been in this situation or people who know more then me and get there views. If he doesn't want help that's up to him. I just had to try and help because i like dogs and of course like his dogs.

Goes to court? I'm not an expert on NSW dog law, but this isn't a criminal matter that will be given court time. The dog was simply declared dangerous under the powers that council has. This declaration is valid in all eastern states of Australia. Any appeal is about whether council followed procedure, and then this is investigated, and the appeal is only upheld if it's found that council did not follow procedure (and why wouldn't they?) There is no courtroom or judge or 3 dogs or character assessment. The dog has been declared dangerous based on what is was reported to have done. What it is known to have done. That's it. He must pay his fine and keep the dog under the prescribed conditions, regardless of any appeal or argument or appeal for assessment that he is considering taking. He sounds like a person who is rambling on without having had any legal advice. So don't entertain his line of thought and urge him to get a lawyer if he wants advice, and keep the dog muzzled in the mean time. Im not sure on the law that's what he wants to do. If this cant happen and he has to comply then that's what he has to do.

This was the point of the thread, to get advise from people who know a lot more then me so i can give this person some advise and its up to him. But people who are judging and saying he should be pts with no professional assessment is silly.

That is my first thought as well , and I am no hot head . An owner who is apparently suffering some sort of mental problem?? Limited income Loves his dogs will find it very hard to attend assessments/training .. is finding it difficult to comply with the rules has a very large dog who is aggressive/reactive. Going to court can be stressful and expensive . Having to cope with a tragedy if/when the dog attacks/injures another dog , or a person.would be intolerable It needs to be weighed up ............. and if this person can not manage everything, then , yes, the dog can be gently PTS , instead of being taken away and impounded . Those highlighted points: 1) If doesn't do that it should be pts 2) same as above 3) he is going for free legal aid If he is to carry on in his normal way the dog in my view should be pts. IF he is willing to give it his all and try fight for his dog and obey the law the dog should be given a chance.

No Muzzle will stop that instinctive reaction to fast-moving skateboards, or aggression to other dogs. . A muzzle will lessen damage caused when a dog does attack Yes i know that is why i was hoping training could help this and have the muzzle on as backup so to speak just in case there is a situation where harm could happen to someone or something. I have never said anywhere that training will fix him and all will be hunky dory. Also mind you if it is declared to dangerous and it cant be fixed i cant argue about the dog being pts. I dont think there should be any savage dogs roaming the streets. I would die if my dog was attacked by a dangerous dog so please understand that im just trying ot see if it can be helped im not 'backing him up".

that can only be decided by hiring the services and experience of a REPUTABLE and personally RECOMMENDED dog behaviour professional. people here will be quite happy to recommend you someone who is honest and known personally by folks here ....and who will have no rash promises of a gauranteed 'fix' to entice gullible people. I understand a fully agree with you. Just seems there is a fair few hot headed posters who think the dog should be PTS. My view is i think there is a chance it could be trained and muzzled but im not saying this is a gaurantee. I may be wrong and it might need to be pts in the end. And there is many posters have given me good information in this thread which i have to pass on to my customer after i print it off this weekend. After that its up to him if he wants to work with this dog and try resolve (if it can) any issues and abide by law or just plot along as normal and likely be pts.

of course it is hurting humans. Why do you keep making excuses for this dog? Im not making excuses. Im telling it how it is. When i have seen it go for skateboarders its intent is to grab the skateboard. In this process hurt could come to the skateboarder by falling over or getting an ankle bite. Muzzle would solve this. How do you think its hurting humans when it hasn't hurt any human in its lifetime? and if the human hits their head on the footpath, breaks their ankle in the fall? Get real, the dog needs to be PTS and the sooner the better. If the skateboarder hits a pedestrian will they be pts to? Lots of ifs and buts this situation is not clear as day. Another point if the skateboarder is going slow the dog does nothing if the skaetboarder is flying past dangerously the dog loses control. Like i said i think a muzzle would fix this. A skateboarder would not be attacked if his riding slowly like he should be (legally) and also would not fall because he wouldnt be attacked in the first place.

Of course it does :) A so-called 'dangerous' dog doesn't usally walk around frothing at the mouth , or even be hard to handle! This type of dog is dangerous because it will attack, or has attacked . Whether an attack takes 5 second ,or 10 minutes ..an attack can cause grave harm . Im not denying it is dangerous, i know it is, its strong. My whole point was can it be trained and have a muzzle on after that and still be walked in the streets or will it eventually be pts.

of course it is hurting humans. Why do you keep making excuses for this dog? Im not making excuses. Im telling it how it is. When i have seen it go for skateboarders its intent is to grab the skateboard. In this process hurt could come to the skateboarder by falling over or getting an ankle bite. Muzzle would solve this. How do you think its hurting humans when it hasn't hurt any human in its lifetime?

He wants to appeal it and take his dog to court as he believes it is not dangerous because its gets on very well with humans. All the prosecution has to do is bring 3 randoms dogs in the court and there goes his case. Anyhow if/when he does go to court i wouldn't be suprised if the dog gets pts, because the judge will be able to judge his character very well and realize as posted above because he doesn't listen to the law there could be further issues. If its on a muzzle the whole time i personally thin the dog would be fine because like i said the dog calms down in seconds like nothing happened after it sees a dog or skateboard but at the moment its not on a muzzle which is worrying, a stubborn owner i suppose.

No he has no car no license. His dogs are his life. He lives for walking his dogs. He walks them day and at night. To be honest his dogs get treated very well, they easily walk 4-5 hours a day at minimum. Discipline is another issue. Anyhow like i said at the start of the thread he is not a stupid person but he is not 100% there in the head if you know what i mean. He doesn't think like you and me. If i was told by the council to put my dog on a muzzle (because its dangerous) he/she would be on a muzzle.

The guy lives in the city so the only place he walks is in the city. And no he is not rich he lives in a housing commission. My business is in the city that is how i met him.

I might add that when the younger dogs annoy him to much he snaps to put them in there place. I have tested the water here and can easily get him to stop and calm down and move him away. I myself made him sort of calm down near another dog. That is why i was thinking there could be some hope with professional training and proper handling of the owner. But i still think he should be on a muzzle all the time, only takes 1 snap to do serious damage.

Why is this? IMO- Controlling a large aggressive dog requires an owner's complete attention, and strength . A dog may well gain courage from being in a pack ..and so react in a stronger manner . Walking 3 dogs ..if one lunges or attacks will probably lead to injury , and possibly death, to dogs or human . I know his dogs and have seen them many times in action so to speak many many times. This big dog goes off lunges for a few seconds then complete calms down instantly once the skateboarder for example passes. On a muzzle in my opinion he is safe to walk with his other dogs. The only bad issue i see is if he somehow gets off the leash even with a muzzle on can easily knock over a skateboarder and the fall could cause harm to the skateboarder, but they wont matter if there is 1 dog or more in his control.

Its in his hands now. It doesn't hurt humans, when it goes for a skateboarder it tries to take him down by the ankles and go for the skateboard, not interested in hurting humans which is still not good but that's the reality. Animals on the other hand is a different story. I believe he should be on the muzzle the whole time but dont believe he should sleep in a cage at home. I also dont believe he should just be walking that dog and not his others if his big dog is on a metal muzzle. The council though that has declared him dangerous is not the city council so i have no idea how they can enforce it, hopefully they communicate with other councils. Anyhow i got some good advise in this thread which was what i wanted so i done what i can.

In the city.