Amax-1

She is usually much more reactive to another dog if they are moving. Running or chasing a ball etc. will bring her undone quickly.

Is it perhaps a prey driven reactivity?.......she's a Border Collie, high drive dog?

Justice is much more reactive with running dogs too but I wouldn't say he has a high prey drive by any means. I think for him at least, it's more to do with a fast moving dog feeling more unpredictable as he has far less time to assess the situation and get comfortable, compared with a dog that is standing still or walking along at a normal pace. The dogs that have attacked or tried to attack him in public have all started by running straight at him too, which probably doesn't help.

Yes, moving dogs would trigger a defensive action quickly if he's been attacked like that for sure. Attacks on a dog who is already reactive doesn't help in the training process teaching the dog that other dogs are not a real threat.

Yes she is very drivey. Although I have trained a very reliable 'off switch'. If there is something on the move, a bird, the postie, a running dog she will react faster than lightening. So yes prey driven reactivity. I try very hard to distract before she reacts. It makes things very hard for me at times. She is a wonderful girl.I just adore her but Id be lying if I said she is an easy girl. So far from it.

The first Belgian Malinois I had some involvement with in his training was like your girl and what he would do if he wasn't in focus with you at the time something else was moving, he would be after it before you had time to change his focus. He had super focus when he was in focus, you could heel him through a heard of elephants, you could hold him in a long down on the footpath with people walking around him even dogs approaching him when in handler focus he was ok, but when relaxed, he would catch you off guard and go nuts over something, so you either had to focus him all the time which was impractical or have him on leash, you could never trust him off leash in a relaxed state, some thing would catch his eye and was gone after it aggressively.....he was handful and a half. My GSD was like an old draught horse in comparison where I once thought he was fast and drivey :laugh:

My pup at the moment is exactly as you describe, around lots of people he'll stick like a magnet, when walking down the street he'll sorta be on and off, then around other dogs he just goes insane. But upping the rewards is definitely the way to go. I make my own liver treats and go through about 2 livers a week just rewarding him to walk nicely. As a result though he walks without watching where he's going, just staring at my hand the whole time :laugh:. Interestingly enough my father works in defence, and says when he sees the dogs in training they do exactly that. However you don't really notice the subtle differences in their walking style. When he was younger he'd drag for sure, but now, even though he does still like being out ahead, I don't have to tense my arm at all to keep him back, he kinda just keeps that slight bit of tension there and sticks with it. If he knows I have a treat he'll stick to my side quite reliably, walking perfectly beside me. As they get older though I'd imagine the food dependency will wear off a bit. My boy doesn't care for toys at all, but he'll do anything for food :)

Training and handling operational and apprehension dogs, control is critical, not only aside from the paperwork and facing the music if dog and handler stuffs up, there is a danger aspect as the dogs are trained to bite people so handler control extends beyond a nice obedience performance or causal loose leash walk and the dogs ability to focus on the handler is the essence to achieving a high level of control. if you call a dog off a deployment for instance, the return is where the reward and praise is at so the dog learns that getting called off a deployment is an awesome opportunity to have fun with the handler. Without that control and the high drive level the dog is at to apprehend someone, you can't stop them easily. On a note of danger if the dog is deployed and someone else comes into the frame could even be a child appearing into the dogs path, the dog MUST immediately abort on command and return to the handler, so all theses focus games adds to the reliability of the dog in the final product and using these focus games with a pet dog makes a fantastic well controlled pet you can technically throw your leash away in the end, just depends upon how much control you want to train for. :)

I have never used one, so want to ask, surely dogs pull with them if used first?

I see lots of people getting hauled around on them, its the powerful part of the dog, less control etc?

I did see a CC at the dogpark last week with a stunning leather one on with a handle on the back, holding 60kgs of dog a handle would help :laugh:

Harnesses are being marketed as anti pulling devices so people who's dogs are pullers on leash buy them in hope to lessen their dog's pulling. There are also a crop of trainers recommending them which I have also noticed more dogs in the community with harnesses pulling their owners around in them. Seems the stronger the dog the more interest in harnesses of late?

There is catch to this also. Some dogs will find a harness restrictive or aversive which can lower the drive to pull by suppressing their enthusiasm and that's a bad thing from a training aspect when a constant restriction/aversive that can't be switched off when the right behaviour is achieved, the dog then becomes equipment wise......haltis/head collars are good for that, dog's perfect with the halti on, take it off and the dog is all over the place again in it's original behaviour. Any aversive used as a training tool must have the capability to switch on and off in accordance with the exhibited behaviour.

I use harnesses for pulling activities only

That's their best use so the dog can power into the harness without drive loss from the corrective action of a neck collar.

SG, with the correction, it's a small pop paired with a firmish uh-uh and then a reward/praise for easing tension.

It's best not to correct as handler punishment, that's why before the dog reaches the end of the leash turn around quickly and walk in the opposite direction and let her self correct and say nothing. When she turns around to follow after the correction, say "here" excitedly and ramp her up yippee who hooo!!! and make her excited to come to you and reward that, make it a game to catch up to you so she thinks it's fun and rewarding. That builds handler focus by elevating drive and makes the handler much more fun than darting off for a sniff. The correction interrupts the drive to go sniffing and the reward creates the fun. Couple the two together and the dog learns to focus and be aware of where you are heading. The dog doesn't fear or avoid correction, they think it's a game of catching them out on direction change without them paying attention.

Also, when you turn around and the dog turns and you call "here" excitedly and reward when she catches up, that reinforces the "here" command so in time, the "here" command has real meaning and eventually the dog can be sniffing and you command "here" and the dog will shoot back to you as fast as she used to dart off and sniff.

You can stand still until she realises that unless she backs it up, you are not moving forward, but that's boring so the dog's response will be suppressed......if you ramp her up in drive, she will turn back to you much faster with greater enthusiasm to be rewarded. :)

Thanks for explaining that, the turning around method makes more sense now :) We have obedience tomorrow, not sure how that's going to go as she is usually a bit pully but I'll get there early and settle her down. In the class she's fine it's just walking around the grounds before and sometimes after which can be bad. At least everybody there can relate to me acting like a crazy dog lady!

She's overwhelmed with excitement and distraction which is pretty normal for a young dog and they tend to do that, so building handler focus will reduce that tendency making yourself more exciting and desirable than the environment. Dogs who like toys and balls for reward are a bit easier to focus in distractions than food driven dogs....toy reward is something else to try if she likes that :)

She is usually much more reactive to another dog if they are moving. Running or chasing a ball etc. will bring her undone quickly.

SG, with the correction, it's a small pop paired with a firmish uh-uh and then a reward/praise for easing tension.

It's best not to correct as handler punishment, that's why before the dog reaches the end of the leash turn around quickly and walk in the opposite direction and let her self correct and say nothing. When she turns around to follow after the correction, say "here" excitedly and ramp her up yippee who hooo!!! and make her excited to come to you and reward that, make it a game to catch up to you so she thinks it's fun and rewarding. That builds handler focus by elevating drive and makes the handler much more fun than darting off for a sniff. The correction interrupts the drive to go sniffing and the reward creates the fun. Couple the two together and the dog learns to focus and be aware of where you are heading. The dog doesn't fear or avoid correction, they think it's a game of catching them out on direction change without them paying attention.

Also, when you turn around and the dog turns and you call "here" excitedly and reward when she catches up, that reinforces the "here" command so in time, the "here" command has real meaning and eventually the dog can be sniffing and you command "here" and the dog will shoot back to you as fast as she used to dart off and sniff.

You can stand still until she realises that unless she backs it up, you are not moving forward, but that's boring so the dog's response will be suppressed......if you ramp her up in drive, she will turn back to you much faster with greater enthusiasm to be rewarded. :)

Ok .. so I have never used a modern harness on a dog

Harnesses are good for two things, exercising a dog with a neck injury and training a dog to pull harder on the leash. Marketing of harnesses around gaining better control of a dog and eliminate pulling is about selling harnesses not training dogs. The best anti pulling device is a prong collar and the best of all is good training which can actually be done without a leash at all :)

Most trainers just wrote him off.

The are quite a few trainers and especially training classes that won't deal with reactivity and makes it very hard sometimes for owners of reactive dogs to seek appropriate support. Many will belittle the owner implying that their dogs reactivity is caused by improper raising and handling where in fact it's usually the dogs default behaviour genetically when under stress, nothing really to do with the owner at all. One consolation when mastering a reactive dog, you will be a better trainer/handler than the trainer who wrote you off

For clarity proximity for Jake is with me about ten meters at the closest, we take a bit of work to get that close. If the trainers have him and I stand away so his focus is split they can get him a fair bit closer. It's not expected that he will ever actually get close to a dog, just that he doesn't tantrum when he goes by.

That makes sense as the focus intensity wouldn't be as strong on the other dog with his focus split between yourself and the trainer so it would reduce the threshold distance.

What's he like if a dog walker is approaching on the footpath?. That's usually the worse encounter especially if you have little escape path to maintain threshold distance.....then of course handler stress, "shit, here comes another dog and mine is going to light up on this dog approaching", the dog senses the handler stress and makes the likelihood of reactivity worse.....all in the stride of exercising a reactive dog!

You can easily teach boundaries where 'sniffing what you can reach without pulling on the lead is allowed and sometimes it's ok to stop and have a good sniff but when I tell you it's time to move on you have to come'. You just have to be consistent about where the boundaries are.

Yes you can indeed and easily for an experienced handler/trainer, but personally I wouldn't teach that to an owner struggling with a darting sniffer to complicate matters further. Once the preferred behaviour is attained and the dog has adequate handler focus then by all means a controlled sniff can be implemented.

Mmmm yes I think Amax that they think he might be working it a bit. So he barks and then looks at me to get a reward, so he's being rewarded for barking possibly rather than the look. I've thought he's been doing that for the neighbour dogs. They don't really bother him anymore, they're over 70m away and quiet unless they're playing rough but he spends a lot of time looking at their house, then as soon as they appear he barks and runs to me for reward, I still reward him because I'd rather that than he decided to go fence fight.

I don't think he's that much in control with an on leash dog, his bark is more "real" if that makes sense. So I think though that it's more to build a more sustained calm response. I can't think of exactly how it was put but holding a more pleasant feeling will also be rewarding. He did seem to get it quite quickly. I think a newbie might be better rewarded for just looking but we've been at it for a while so I think it's also a progression.

I kind of reach for my treat bag as soon as I see a dog so I think that also creates some confusion for him. I know I do but I guess it's my nervous tic. Look Jake there's trouble but I have all this peanut butter rather than if you do the right thing I might reach in there and give you some. Because that is pretty much what I think rather than trusting him and giving the opportunity to prove himself.

What I have established over the years is once you can reduce the reactivity distance down to close proximity with another dog by any means you achieve that, the dog learns to relax when realising nothing untoward happens in close proximity to another dog. It's notable when achieving good progress and the dog is subject to a bad encounter with another dog, perhaps another reactive or over boisterous dog, it sets the progress back quickly, I guess the idea in the training process where it works well with close proximity to calm dogs. I am not sure that rewarding calm is what's happening and think calm is a state the dog chooses with increased exposure to other dogs without a drama occurring to trigger their previous reactivity.

Social aggression is also another cause of reactivity which is a dominant reactivity towards a strange dog who doesn't belong in the pack......that's not a fear reaction but more an extension of territorial aggression. Socially aggressive dogs usually posture and growl a lot on dogs they know or first greetings with another dog will be putting it's head over the dog's shoulder and growling wanting the other dog to submit to their assumed hierarchy. Some little dogs can be socially aggressive and want to dominate big dogs. They don't realise that one chomp from the big dog and they are dead, but they will start a fight with a big dog if the big dog doesn't submit.

I have always used collars with my Boxer and Jack Russell but wanted to move to a harness.

What are you hoping to achieve with a harness out of interest?

I'm not really trying to achieve anything in regards to walking, both walk ok on a lead. They seem to look more comfortable and are easier to connect to a car restraint.

All the suggestions have been great. Now to pick one.

Ok, thanks :)

I don't really mind if she wants to sniff things as we're walking along but I don't want her forcefully pulling towards smells or digging her heels in when I want to keep walking so I'll work on that.

The dog has no reason to focus on the handler that's why she darts around sniffing and misbehaves in distractive environments. This is pretty normal behaviour or it's a common and predictable behaviour that unless a dog is trained not to dart around sniffing, pulling on the leash and digging their heels in to keep on sniffing from a puppy, the behaviour from adolescence onwards gets worse and more frustrating.

When they are trained in handler focus from puppyhood, they don't exhibit these behaviours to deal with in adolescence, but of course we only learn this from experience of raising many dogs, so when we do end up with an adolescent sniffer darting all over place on leash, the fastest way I have ever found to extinguish the behaviour is the change of direction self correction process reinforced with reward for maintaining focus on where the handler is going. Once the dog has a reason to focus on the handler, the environment doesn't matter and the dog will respond the same in practically all environments and distractions.

With sniffers in the training process, you can't relax on it and whilst training their is NO sniffing whatsoever as allowing one pull and sniff until the dog is proofed will undo the progress made :)

I have always used collars with my Boxer and Jack Russell but wanted to move to a harness.

What are you hoping to achieve with a harness out of interest?

Nathan Williams is Australia's leading dog psychologist and dog behaviour specialist apparently

What I need to do is let him look calmly back at the dog without reacting and then reward the second time he looks at me. That way he is rewarded for maintaining a calm state rather than barking,

He's actually being rewarded for looking at you......I don't see how they determine the calm behaviour which is the previous action before looking at you relates to the reward from the dog's perspective? It's more the teaching of a new response when in face of another dog and because of that, the reactivity is suppressed in the process as a by-product?

Correction = consequence that reduces likelihood of behaviour recurringr. Punishment = consequence that reduces likelihood of behaviour recurring. Therefore correction is punishment.

It depends how the correction is used whether it be a punisher applied by the handler for non compliance with a command or used as a behaviour interrupter as to how the dog associates with the correction. Punisher as in "cop this correction for disobedience or being naughty" or correction used as an interrupter from the dog making the wrong choice are two different things in the dog's mindset.

I generally keep the balance of correct and reward, even on walks where I know she'll walk nicely I bring treats and will after a correction (when she has gone from doing what I don't want to what I do want) mark it and treat and do a lot of fussing 'You're such a good walker!!!'. Even if we've been walking for 10 minutes on a completely loose lead I will keep telling her how nice her walkies are, I must look a bit weird :laugh: But you're right I do think in the situations where she's over excited that I get really frustrated and tend to correct more than I reward and am probably a bit more restrained in my rewarding when I do

I think I might give her a quick run around and then take her somewhere new tomorrow so that she's a little calmer and not being set up to fail and be way more liberal about rewarding the good walkies!

It's so weird that we can walk down a super busy street in my suburb full of people and screaming kids, trams and buses going past and all sorts of dogs (normally reacting to Didi aggressively) and she'll stick to my side like glue but put us in the exact same situation somewhere different and she loses it.

You on the right track.....what I do is build more handler focus by changing direction, when she surges ahead, before she hits the end of the leash, turn around and walk briskly in the opposite direction and let her self correct, when she catches up make it fun and praise her for catching up and give her a treat......don't let her pull against the leash, turn around before she hits the end of it and what happens is the dog thinks it's a game. The correction is NOT a punisher, it's a "hey, we are going this way" but along with praise and treats for the right behaviour, you have a double reinforcer. If the dog values toys more than food, use a toy or ball as a reward for maintaining composure :)

I would ask my obedience trainer but I'm fairly sure she doesn't like me and her only advice regarding walking has been to get a front-attach harness as if that would solve all my problems

Tell her you just bought a prong collar and she will hate you with a passion :laugh:

I'm being irreverent but sometimes a shut down response would seem quite desirable.

I think the term threshold distance is quite misleading too. I gather for a lot of dogs there's no magic distance but rather a combination of factors. Initially I used to try find the exact distance at which he would react and then as per the text book that would be reduced. Much experience later and I can nearly 80 percent of the time predict whether he will lose it or not.

Border collie threshold is another country, he will freak out at them in the tv.

Fence between him and the dog and he can pretty much stand two meters away and be ok under instruction.

No fence,on leash if you're big and dark colored and confident and ignoring him then across the road and you can go by.

Off leash, well inversely proportional to size it's a circus.

I think you just have to keep plugging away patiently but after two years I've also learned that you really need to learn your own dog. Theory is general and therefor very simple, good to have but not applicable to every dog.

Correct, you are spot on there

Theories are ok and have their place, but many in dog training are purposely implemented to sell training packages, so we can only apply theories as they apply to own dogs.

Leash aggression is often because the leashed dog has no flight. A dog that has been mismanaged as youngster and not allowed to escape will not choose flight. Jake was six months younger than his mate. My behaviorist has postulated that he was possibly not allowed a safe retreat as a pup and his unthinking response to anything fearful or new is to make a lot of noise.

A phobic person will also attack if given no flight. The first thing many people do is reach for a heavy object to kill a tiny spider. Dogs do what works, if yelling makes your phobic object disappear then that's what you do. Jake is by no means a confident aggressor. I think treating a fear aggressive dog as such would do great harm to the dog. He may learn in your presence to surprises his first response but you wouldn't change his internal state.

I agree hankdog.

I think it's also important when making statements, such as A-max's that if a dog sees another across the street and, given the chance, would rush over and attack, that this is therefore confident aggression and not anxiety or fear, to take in to account that each dog is different. Each dog has a different distance requirement that keeps them under threshold and some may not feel threatened and afraid until a dog is two metres from them, while others may feel threatened at 20 metres or 100 metres. If the dog's fear response is fight (whether due to past experience or being restrained from flight by a leash), I would think that response would kick in at whatever distance puts the dog over threshold, meaning that just because a dog is across the road going ballistic and wanting to chase the other dog off, it doesn't automatically mean the dog is a confident aggressor.

When I first started working with Justice he would go over threshold and kick in to fight mode if another dog was on the other side of the road but he wasn't confident and it would have been a huge mistake to have treated him as anything other than fearful and anxious. Over time he increased his threshold so that he could have a dog walk past him a metre away without reacting and eventually got as far as his response consisting of a sniff and then walking away, or moving behind me, when strange dogs ran up to him in public. Hopefully we'll get back to that point again but at no time was he ever confident in his aggressive displays. I think you need to be very careful giving advice to owners of reactive dogs that suggests their dogs should be treated as anything other than fearful and anxious, without an in person assessment done by an excellent behaviourist. The consequences of someone acting on that with a fearful dog could be very damaging.

There a two behaviour components in a dog attack, the trigger and the reaction. The trigger is fear and the reaction is active aggression and only a dog confident enough to win a fight will react in active aggression when a flight path exists. The further a dog will chase another dog to mount an attack, the more confidence the dog has it's ability to win the fight. Dogs lacking in confidence to win the fight are not brave enough to test their luck over any great distance. Dog aggression is exactly the same in principal as old school trained protection dogs in defence drive but in reverse in terms of the rehabilitation/training process of the behaviours.

I actually haven't provided any advice only discussed behaviour elements basically

I've already been through this process once with him and did learn an incredible amount about both of us as well as about training and timing. I would however, have been very happy to have avoided the need to go through this again and miss out on the opportunity to enhance my training skills once more.

Leash aggression is often because the leashed dog has no flight. A dog that has been mismanaged as youngster and not allowed to escape will not choose flight. Jake was six months younger than his mate. My behaviorist has postulated that he was possibly not allowed a safe retreat as a pup and his unthinking response to anything fearful or new is to make a lot of noise.

A phobic person will also attack if given no flight. The first thing many people do is reach for a heavy object to kill a tiny spider. Dogs do what works, if yelling makes your phobic object disappear then that's what you do. Jake is by no means a confident aggressor. I think treating a fear aggressive dog as such would do great harm to the dog. He may learn in your presence to surprises his first response but you wouldn't change his internal state.

Yes, aggression can manifest in fearful dogs from scary experiences with no flight path but depending on the individual dog, they can also shut down and anything else in between so there is really not much point in trying to establish what's caused the reactivity in a time that can never be confirmed as to what did happen, and often nothing happened at all and the dog is just reactive, doesn't like other dogs.

I think most importantly is to establish the behaviour of what the dog is displaying now as it's being assessed for a training plan based on the mindset of the dog you are seeing when in a reactive state. When the dog's mindset is mis-read by a behaviourist and the wrong training approach applied in rehabilitation, it either makes the reactivity worse and more unpredictable, causes a shutdown or doesn't really fix the problem other than minor suppression of the reactive behaviour.

Dogs should never be trained to attack. Why we do this I will never know. There are plenty of other methods that can be used to protect property.

I doubt these dogs were trained to attack. If they were trained dogs both would call off on command.

Sorry, my wording was not great. I meant to guard, not 'attack'. Dogs should not be trained to act aggressively IMO.

In most jurisdictions if not all, it's illegal to train pet dogs to bite/attack/ or act aggressively towards people or other animals, yet it's quite legal to breed and keep dogs high in civil and territorial drive which are untrained and otherwise uncontrollable. the most dangerous version is quite ok, but the safest trained version is not ok......hardly sensible is it?

To my mind, the fearful dog may very well act aggressively (exhibit reactivity). This is because often this sort of behaviour often results in the feared object retreating. Thus it is a case of negative reinforcement, which we know is a very powerful behavioural influence.

Yes, that's how it begins in many fearful dogs, the target they are insecure about retreats from an act of aggression then by learned behaviour, the once fearful dog transitions into a confident aggressor/attacker, but when rehabilitating a dog in training, it's the state of reactivity the dog displays is what's best addressed I have found more so than the dog's state when the behaviour first commenced.

Sometimes if this makes sense: A behaviourist will piece together from the owners account of how their dog became chronically reactive towards other dogs and determine that the reactivity is fear based and they are correct, it's exactly where it all began, but it's transitioned into confident active aggression over time, so the treatment or training process needs to be compiled around a confident aggressor which is what the dog is now on the leash before them, not compile a training plan around what the dog was initially when the reactivity began. As we know, dog aggression elevates, gets worse as the aggressor gains confidence and before long they would attempt to take down a grizzly bear so to speak. A fear biter can transition into a dog that he/she thinks of themselves as being pretty tough to the point they can look for fights and enjoy the challenge

Justice wasn't over threshold. He didn't respond to my voice because I did the wrong thing. The clicker is normally used in the context of the Look at That game where he gets rewarded for looking at another dog without exploding. He knows what he is being rewarded for and if he looks at a dog and looks back at me because I missed it, he will keep looking at the dog and then back at me until I catch on. In this particular instance I used the clicker incorrectly and as an interrupter to stop him from going over threshold because I wasn't on the ball. We also do the Look at That game without a clicker and treats and with praise as the reward. It depends on how stressful each situation is for him and prior to him being attacked recently, we weren't using LAT or BAT at all as he no longer needed it.

That's good he was still clear headed enough to hear the clicker so he was still within a workable zone and hadn't blown over the threshold or what we often say "lost the plot".....so there is still some good behaviour left in Justice to be gained in command compliance it seems which is great progress. People who have never had a reactive dog to deal with don't realise the infinite timing of events in training and management involved in achieving sometimes only marginal success. As I mentioned previously, as a handler/trainer mastering a reactive dog which are not easy projects provides great enhancement of a person's overall training skills in general :)

Somewhere in the vast amount of stuff out there on training reactive dogs there's a notion that instead of calling them off once they're looking at a dog, so long as they're not acting out you allow them to "gather information". It's all part of the conflicting stuff you can find. Jake has vision problems and I've found the best thing to do is to warn him and face him in the direction of the dog. And 1 and 2 and 3 and we see the dog, sucked in and completely deaf and rigid. If I try do anything he will crack and throw a tantrum.

Basically at that point I just leave him and hold his peanut butter jar next to his head. If he relaxes and turns away then he gets his treats and pats. If it goes badly and he lunges out he gets his own punishment from lunging on leash, a stern word and let's go.

All reactive dogs are different, obedience straight up can helped but some reactive dogs treat other dogs more as a phobic object than a distraction which they wish to interact with. It's not rational and they can't control their reaction. It's the same as if a snake dropped in your lap, I could tell you to be still but it's unlikely you would.

Jake took ages to actually want to sniff or do dog stuff on a walk. For him I actually need to encourage him to do that kind of thing. We counteract by doing a few minutes of "work" on a walk, but walks are about learning to interact with the world. I don't think of Jake as a normal dog who is misbehaving. He is a dysfunctional individual who suffers from a deep phobia and high anxiety.

End of sermon. Sorry I had to just say that. Reactivity is not a lack of obedience.

Anxious and phobic dogs will run away is their first option, they don't react unless there is no escape path and they most certainly don't react in forward motion in active aggression. Anxious dogs will react to other dogs in close proximity so they tend to bite another dog when face to face or when a another dogs overwhelms them physically with no escape path. Dogs who react at another dog on the other side of the road at a distance giving the impression that if you dropped the leash, your dog would chase the other dog and attack it, is not an anxious phobic dog and both conditions require different training approaches, so one condition is a phobic type anxious fear aggression state, and the other is an active aggression state. Active aggression is a state where a dog perceives threat usually from weak nerves if the dog reacts to non threats, but the dog has courage and commitment to fight is a different mindset to a cornered fearful dog lashing out, so training of reactive behaviours depends a lot on the type of reactivity the dog is displaying but you certainly can in most cases dramatically improve reactive behaviour with good obedience training as the foundation to the rehabilitation process.

This was Justice's first challenging encounter with another dog after being attacked two weeks earlier and his fear and reactivity resurfacing. I was stressed and flustered and was trying to get him to respond by calling his name, rather than the commands he's been conditioned to respond to when I want him to turn away from another dog, such as "leave it" and "let's go". If you read the rest of the post you quoted you would have seen that as soon as I did something he has been conditioned to respond to when on alert (using the clicker), he responded immediately. This situation was my error and not his and I agree that reactive dogs should have their training proofed to a level where they can respond when on high alert. He has responded to the commands he has been trained with on every high alert encounter since this occasion.

I have no interest in setting up a relationship where Justice isn't allowed to sniff or show me he's interested in something when he has a leash on. I do not expect him to be completely focused on me, provided he's not pulling me and responds when I ask him to do something. I have done training with him in the past when I was following advice I had been given about keeping him focused on me and not sniffing etc.. and these walks were not enjoyable for either of us.

I do think a dog's ability to respond when on alert is very different to a dog's ability to respond when over threshold. I know you didn't mention being over threshold but I wanted to bring it up in case anyone is reading this and thinks that they have a disobedient or untrained dog just because they can't get a response to verbal commands when their dog is over threshold, as this is not the case.

A dog over threshold really means the dog is too over stimulated in the moment to respond to known commands and what we see from a reactive dog is that he/she has lost the plot and reverted back to the default behaviour, barking, lunging etc for which we have no verbal control over the dog to interrupt the behaviour and re-gain the dog's composure.

Yes I did read all of your post and the dog did compose when using the clicker which means the clicker is being used as a lure and the message the dog is learning in the training process is that he shall respond to the click sound and not handler command. The dog ideally should associate the click with displaying the right behaviour as commanded by the handler as in "handler commands, dog obeys, click for obeying followed by a reward". In the circumstances, the dog was actually rewarded for blowing over threshold and reacting by luring with the clicker.

I know these moments are difficult and you have to make a call and the bottom line was you did re-compose the dog and diffuse the reactivity, so well done as any ability to defuse a reactive dog is good and moving in the right direction. From what you explained of the situation, the clicker is working more as a lure in the way the dog sees it, like he is relating the click as meaning he gets a reward but he's not understanding what the reward is for, what he did right to hear the click. Sometimes it's hard to tell if a dog sees the clicker as a reward lure or a marker for the right behaviour. I think Justice may be seeing the clicker as a reward lure more so than realising the click was actually for displaying the right behaviour you are seeking from him?

What you can also do, is train him for "work mode" where he MUST obey everything then a relaxed mode when the work is done, so you can train little sections of a walk where he must focus, no sniffing etc, then release him to relaxed mode where he can do what he likes. You can train a working mode commanding "ready" meaning for the next few minutes he must focus and obey then command "done" meaning he can relax.

As painful as it is to manage a reactive dog, they are worth their weight in gold to own one just once as they make you become a great dog trainer by the time you have mastered them. They teach you in 5 years what would normally take 20+ years of knowledge gained in dog behaviour :) :)

Some dogs when on high alert or over the thresh-hold switch over to another part of their brain & literally do not hear you. It's called "sticky-dog syndrome" & happens a lot with herding breeds & it is difficult if not impossible to train out. I know, because my BC girl is a "sticky dog" & unless I read the warning signs, usually sniffing, circling quickly with nose to the ground etc. she will be off chasing some scent trial & it's true, she has switched to a different part of her brain & cannot hear me when I call. I would imagine the same thing could be true of dogs that are reactive to other dogs in their space. :)

Unless you use aversion not as a punisher but used to change the behaviour, it is difficult to train around a dog in "sticky" mode. The greatest "un-sticker" of all times is the dreaded electric collar and in working dog situations and especially with herding breeds is why they use electric collars in the training process otherwise without it, the dog washes out and doesn't certify in that working role :)

Commonly called "clear headed" dogs is a term given to dogs more genetically resistant to reaching "sticky mode" which serious and professional working dog trainers will seek in the parentage of a prospective working litter.

Dogs should never be trained to attack. Why we do this I will never know. There are plenty of other methods that can be used to protect property.

I doubt these dogs were trained to attack. If they were trained dogs both would call off on command.

The dogs were obviously just mutts with territorial drive. Trained protection dogs are not cheap and takes a lot of owner/handler input in the training process to control them safely that not many average people will spare the time or the money involved.

Because at least one of them was not a safe dog. Whatever led to it, however much it was not the dog's fault and it was let down by humans, a dog that would respond like that to a human in its yard is a highly dangerous dog.

We need to be mindful of the fact that no laws prevent anyone keeping a dog dangerous to humans and until the dog is declared dangerous which can only result from complaint, the dog is regarded as a compliant. The council said apparently no reports had been received previously about these dogs. Not sure how long they had these dogs, but prior to the attacks it didn't seem that the neighbours had a problem with them?