BarbedWire

I can't believe the mother's attitude. She says: 'They started playing tug-of-war with the pug.' She speaks about it all as if her dogs were doing nothing wrong.They were tearing the pug apart. I have just found out elsewhere that the pug was okay, well up to a point okay. it has been to the vet and has stitches on its back leg. There may be other injuries as well. I hope the mother is going to pay the pug's vet bills.

Yes what the man with the cricket bat did is indefensible but the mother's attitude isn't much better.

18 minutes ago, DogsAndTheMob said:

I used to wonder why people had difficulty training for the group stays in obedience. My dogs loved the stays; the stays were an opportunity for them to relax and watch the world go by. Then I had a dog who was anxious in the stays... and another one... and another one.

 

i’ve finally realised what has changed. I grew up in a dog training household, which meant my dogs learnt the stays alongside older, more experienced, more confident members of the pack. The older dogs were relaxed, so they learnt to relax. Now, I train by myself, or occasionally in mixed classes of inexperienced, restless dogs that my dog doesn’t know. This ramps up my dog’s anxiety.

 

Now that I know what the problem is, I can fix it. I just need to be patient. Maturity will help, too. My current dog is still very young.

 

I believe that some overseas training groups hold stay classes, where dogs work at their level of confidence, alongside other dogs at the same level. I would to see our local clubs do this. The best heeling dog in the Novice competition class may not have the confidence for relaxed distance stays, but the sluggish heeler in first class may have the confidence for out of sight stays, and the maturity to imbue other dogs with the same confidence. 

 

I’d also like to appeal to would-be triallers. If your dog is breaking its stays, don’t put it into the group stays at an obedience trial, in the hope that you might “fluke a pass”. This is unfair to your dog, because  you can’t offer the reassurance that your dog needs. It’s also unfair to the other dogs in the class, who are likely to pick up on your dog’s anxiety and become anxious as well.

I agree with this. My dogs always had excellent stays and I did put the younger ones alongside the older ones as part of their training,  but my last dog's stay with the handler out of sight was ruined when another handler in the class used to rush back in and correct her dog several times. It made my dog anxious or let's be real, possibly it was my annoyance with her that made my dog anxious.

I do agree DATM. In training it is important not to set dogs up to fail. If your dog is not ready don't enter it in a trial.

4 minutes ago, JulesP said:

I originally thought that being attached to the belt thingo would be bad but then I considered that when lunging an unruly horse I did use to put the lunge rope around my hip area which gave much better stability. I think you had horses too Sars?

 

I can understand your initial worries. I get concerned if I see a smallish lady walking a biggish dog that looks like it could pull her over. And I don't like walking past kids walking large dogs. Had a lady wrap her dogs lead around a fence once as I approached. That was alarming but at least she knew she needed extra reinforcements to hold the very, very large dog!  But as others have pointed out these pooches seemed to be trained to walk this way. 

 

Good discussion! 

Thanks JulesP. I did think about horses and how big they are and once upon a time I felt quite comfortable leading three of them. Maybe it is because I am becoming unsteady on my feet. :-)

17 minutes ago, sandgrubber said:

DDD: "Extender leads should be banned."

and various posts seem in favor of banning multiple dog walking.

I'm all for banning wide access to assault rifles and banning guns in schools... but the history of bans in the dog world is not a good one.

Sorry it has come to this. I don't want anything banned.

I started the thread because I was talking with a friend the other day and she mentioned dog walkers with multiple dogs and how cute they are. When I disagreed ( I had visions of a walker trying to hold on to, or even being attached to, several dogs who were all wanting to go in different directions as a couple of loose dogs were bounding towards them) she laughed and I just started thinking about why I had my reservations and I thought I would come on here to ask for others' opinions.

I have learnt that it is quite common overseas where it seems to be done safely. Some posters think Australia is different  and maybe it is not as safe here. Then it was mentioned that dogs need to pooh etc which I also had not thought of and then I wondered why we take our dogs for walks anyway. Then someone mentioned the belts the walkers wear which do alarm me. There were a few other issues raised but 'shrug' this is DOL after all.

I have changed from my original position. I now believe that it's probably safe for people who know their dogs to walk them in this way, and my original reaction was probably just me being anxious which I am prone to and possibly also because my dogs have twice been attacked when they were on lead walking by my side. 

3 hours ago, sandgrubber said:

Ban, ban, ban, ban!

If I remember right, in WA there's a 180 cm limit on leash length, almost never enforced. 

That's the same attitude that produces BSL and all the stupid rules regarding dog breeding.

I use a retractable lead for my old girl, who is deaf and a little demented, when the others go off lead in bush, because I'm afraid she will wander off in the bushes and get lost.  Should this be banned as well?

Do you think banning a handful of people who walk multiple dogs in an unsafe manner is going to do anything to cut down the multitude of idiots who muck up walking one or two dogs?

How's about a little tolerance?

As Grampa used to say: "You can't outlaw stupidity."

 

Sorry I can't see where anyone has talked about banning anything. :-( 

Of the original photos one is from New York, two are from Argentina, and one is Australian. I do not wish to identify the Australian one but I am seeing more and more of these dog walkers and I am concerned for their safety. Having multiple leads in your hand that you could easily let go is not so bad but having dogs attached to a belt is just asking for trouble. 

Some more photos here

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=dog+walkers&rlz=1C1CHWA_enAU620AU620&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjl2_nznbPYAhVBEbwKHYm8C6QQ_AUICigB&biw=1600&bih=769

When I used to walk my bigger dogs, who were also trialling, I used to break the walk up into sections. If I said 'working' that meant no sniffing or anything else but walking beside me on a loose lead, but then I would say 'long lead' and that meant they could then sniff and relieve themselves if they wanted. It worked well. With my current dogs I let them stop when they want to, but when they are sniffing for too long I say 'walk on' and I then walk on smartly and they follow.

One of the reasons why we walk our dogs is so that they don't get bored and being allowed to sniff out all the neighbourhood dogs' calling cards keeps their little minds busy. That is why I walk my dogs. I want to relieve the boredom of being inside all day. I don't use offleash parks because I don't like them.

2 hours ago, Dogsfevr said:

But keep in mind many of these dogs are generally apartment dogs ,they would live a more social life than many dogs in Australia & dog walkers are employed to do that take them for a walk ,The climate is different so going for a walk is just that ,most owners take them to the offleash parks once home,do doggy daycare & take them out to the cafes etc etc ,They get to enjoy more daily life skills than dogs here .
Even in the UK in March the dog walkers are going for a brisk walk,its cold,wet & maybe sleeting  but again owners can take there dogs for other thrills to more places than us

One of the photos in the OP is local not overseas. I do think it is dangerous, and as others have said if I see someone coming with more than two dogs I am going the other way as fast as I can.

That is a very interesting point Gillybob. I hadn't thought about it. When I walk my two dogs I let them stop frequently just to sniff at posts etc and to do a wee or whatever which I clean up.  Sometimes they go round and round in circles just to find the right spot for it. Those dogs in the photos would just have to keep on walking. They wouldn't be allowed to stop and sniff which makes me wonder about why we walk our dogs. Is it to let them explore and sniff and enjoy themselves or is it just for the exercise?

Just wondering how safe you think it is for dog walkers to be walking multiple dogs. I find the situations in these photos quite scary. A dog walker who weighs around 80 kgs walking dogs with a total weight of over 200 kgs. When I have told people I think it is unsafe I have been told that it shows that the dog walkers are really good with dogs. It makes me think of photos I have seen of Cesar Millan with multiple dogs although mostly they were unleashed. Just wondering what others think. Is it dangerous?

8 hours ago, Thistle the dog said:

WE were chased a couple of weeks ago  thistle was on lead and this kelpie came angling right at her! We did a 180 and speed walked the other way and it kept following us it was right up thistles ass! Was zig zagging all over the field trying to keep her calm, talking to keep her attention and walking away so she wouldn't turn and confront the dog but you could see her getting more and more worried  

 

owner was no help just standing there half heartedly calling his dog. I was getting really worried thistle would react!

 

thankfulky others saw our dilemma and came to our rescue and shoo"d the dog away but it was no fun! 

 

Yknow if she reacted back to such a pushy dog she'd be the one in trouble  even though she's under control and on lead

 

really ruins our our confidence to walk together too

This is how it felt when the dog followed after us when I was trying to get away. My older dog is very anxious and initially reactive to other dogs although usually I can make her settle. The owner made no attempt to stop his dog. I was walking down a street calling out for someone to help me and no-one came. People must have been not at home or they didn't want to be involved. It really does ruin your confidence to go for a walk again. My older dog has been very clingy since. She is sleeping at my feet right now. We just have to be so watchful now. 

Thanks everyone. Your stories are so scary. Roova I like the description of approaching dogs as having a bouncy or flat running style. I found this chart which I think illustrates the flat focussed running style of dogs who are about to attack. 

1 hour ago, karen15 said:

Call council and report it. My staffy was attacked on a walk. On lead, unprovoked and I had to haul the dog off him. Luckily someone saw it happen. Brisbane council were excellent. I called them around 6.30 am. A ranger was at my place bt 8.30, but we were at the vet. He went and saw the dog and witness and returned around 12. Dog was declared dangerous in under two days.

 

not long after another dog raced out of its yard at him. I stopped that by stepping in front of him, between the dogs. If a dog bites a person consequences are way worse.....

 

recently outside of puppy park, off leash dog rushed my two. I went off like a fire cracker at the owner. Told her if she wanted her mongrel off lead then put it in the bloody park RIGHT THERE!!!!!! Otherwise she's breaking the law. She said dog wasn't doing any harm I yelled yes it bloody well was, jumping all over my leashed dogs. Called council, reported and requested ranger to patrol at peak times.

 

any off lead dog that approaches me is met with hostility and advice to owner that if it gets close enough I'll use it as a football.

Thanks Karen your dogs are lucky to have such a protective owner but I am not very mobile these days which is what makes it all more scary because I can't protect my dogs.

59 minutes ago, mingaling said:

I recently has a similar experience on the reserve across the road. It is an offlead area but the laws of effective control still dictate. 

I wrote an email to the council. I’ve been told this is the best way to make things formal and for records and follow up. 

Thought I’d share as an example. I tried to explain things in the order they happened and in a factual manner without too much emotional embellishment. 

 

On the afternoon of Wednesday November 22nd at approx 5.15pm I was walking my small dog on the riverbank bird reserve on Purnong Rd, just adjacent to the end of the caravan park. 
I walked first in the direction of the jetty and passed a couple eating takeaway on the grass. I kept my dog under effective control at a respectable distance. I then passed a group of 4 Black and Tan kelpie type dogs swimming it the river, accompanied by a man and woman on the bank. As we passed 2 of the dogs rushed over to us. They bounced around and got us wet and frightened my small dog a little with minor chasing etc. I kept my dog at my side under effective control and moved on. The 2 kelpie dogs returned to the man and woman and jumped back in the river. I continued on up to the jetty before turning around to head home. As we approached the area where the 4 dogs were swimming, the man had pulled his Ute up on the roadway next to the reserve and was attempting to get all 4 dogs to recall from the river where the dogs were, still with the lady. We held back around 50 metres to wait until the 4 dogs were clear of the park. 2 of the dogs went directly to the Ute and jumped on the back. 2 failed to recall. One raced about 50 metres in the opposite direction to where the couple was still sitting on the grass eating take away food. The dog failed to recall to the woman and the couple were forced to stand up with their food while the dog bounced around and shook water all over them. While this was happening the other dog still on the reserve spotted me and my dog and made a beeline for us. In an attempt to protect my dog I got down on my knees to protect him and yelled loudly “No” and “stop” at the dog coming towards us. It failed to recall and started menacing my dog, by which time it was joined by the dog who had been harassing the couple with the food. I also yelled at the second dog as it sped towards us. I was fairly confident the dogs were not actually savage, but my dog was not to know that as 2 dogs 8 times his size bounced around and menaced him. The man at the Ute with their other 2 dogs made it quite clear what he thought of me yelling at his loose out of control dogs and kept yelling at me that they were friendly, I tried to make it clear to him that this was not the point and that his 2 out of control dogs had managed to upset 3 other park users and my small dog, who remained by my side under control at all times. At no time did I strike out or attempt to strike away these dogs. I yelled at them and I yelled at their owners. At no time did they produce anything that looked like a lead, and lost control of 2 of the dogs on 2 occasions. Once the dogs finally recalled to the Ute parked on the roadway, the man once again yelled at me for yelling at his unleashed uncontrolled dogs. At this point I yelled back at him that it’s not good enough to stand 50 metres away and yell at people that your dogs are friendly, as they bounce around and menace people and other dogs. At which point they drove off with all 4 dogs unrestrained on the back of the Ute. As he drove off one was actually standing on the top of a silver toolbox on the side of the tray of the Ute well above the roof level! 
These 4 dogs all reside at 00 xyz Rd. I’m not exactly sure how they are allowed to have 4 of them in a residential yard. 

I’m not sure if or what can be done about this. As you can see, we all live fairly close to each other. This is not the first time I’ve seen them out and about not under particularly effective control. 
If my dog had of taken fright at these dogs rushing towards us on the park  and lost his nerve and bolted, the result may not have been as good. And who could have blamed him. He doesn’t know if these dogs are friendly, despite their owners yelling it repeatedly across the park! 
I probably would not have taken the time to submit this complaint if it hadn’t been for the attitude of the owner, chastising me, for attempting to ward of his dog by yelling loudly at them! 
And for the possibility of running into them again. I should not have to change where I walk my dog, which is directly across the road from where we live. 

Regards 
*insert name
Address 

contact details

Thanks Mingaling, I really don't want to report him because I think he lives in the house that every year around Australia Day has a lamb or sheep in the backyard which I assume is then butchered for their Australia Day barbecue. I would hate to have anything thrown over my fence. 

46 minutes ago, Dogsfevr said:

So what was he doing in an offleash dog area with a wheelbarrow & woodchips?

The council had cut something (a tree?0 down and left the chips for the locals. It is often done here.

Thank you so much for the supportive comments. I have just been for my regular blood test and I told the nurse about it and he said that the other guy was being aggressive and being a bully probably because he knew he was in the wrong. What you say and what he said is so true. Unfortunately for me I always feel guilty. That's just who I am. I need to change me and stop eating so many biscuits. Thanks again. I did so hate hearing my old girl yelp and I couldn't help her. 

I know this has been done many times before and sorry to bore you but I need to vent and I need to understand why I feel as I do and what I should be doing about it.

This morning I took my two smaller dogs for a walk along one of their usual routes when I saw an offlead dog ahead on the path. It was a yellow dog, the size of a shepherd. Normally I would assess its body language and harm potential and make a decision about continuing or a detour. I had also noticed a man shovelling wood chips into a barrow and I thought the dog might be his so I decided to continue expecting him to call his dog if there was a problem. Then the dog noticed us and immediately sprinted towards us. Both my dogs were on lead and I waved my arms yelling at it to go away. It paused for a moment and I picked up my smaller dog so that she at least would be safe. Then it lunged at my old dog and I started yelling and pulled her away calling out to the man asking if it was his dog and could he please come and get it. The man then came over and said he only wants to play and obviously I didn't know the first thing about dogs. If he had wanted to hurt my dog he would have ripped her to pieces.  I was now extremely agitated and I asked him to control his dog deciding that I wanted to escape asap. The dog then bared his teeth and lunged at my old girl again and she yelped. It was all so quick. I am not sure what happened next but I said to the man that wasn't his dog wanting to play and he said that his dog didn't like my cranky voice and a few other choice things which I have forgotten. I then took off expecting him to restrain his dog but it kept following me until it finally went off into someone's front garden and I turned a corner hoping it wouldn't know where I had gone and we got home safely. My dog is not hurt physically but I guess her anxiety about other dogs has just been reinforced yet again. I am okay but that's just one more area I now have to avoid and I have just eaten a packet of biscuits.

My thoughts about all this: What should I have done? I know I got upset which I shouldn't do but my old girl has been attacked before and I was very afraid. I am also very fearful because I am elderly and unsteady on my pins and because I know that if I had tried to intervene I would probably have fallen over. I am also feeling so guilty that I let my old girl take the brunt of the attack while my smaller younger dog was safe in my arms, but I can't hold them both at once. I am also angry that a lot of what was said to me was a male bullying a female and I am so over all of that. When I got home I thought about reporting him to the ranger but the area is actually an offlead area and also it wouldn't be hard for him to find out where I live and there could be repercussions.

Thoughts welcome.

I just wanted to share. This is what boxers can do.

https://youtu.be/Tn0Wt2MfMUc

So sorry! Did I really deserve this? I was trying to be helpful. I'm going.

1 hour ago, Papillon Kisses said:

This has been thoroughly disproven. In fact the opposite is true.

Can you quote your source.  I found this article from two vets that supports what I am saying. Note my post was referring to treating a dog who is already acting out her anxiety I said 'when she is carrying on', not while the dog is still being calm when it would of course be appropriate to treat.

Quote

All cues and most treats should come from the owner and not the veterinary staff. Corrections should be firm but not forceful and involve pulling up on the Gentle Leader until the dog sits and appears calm and settled. This should occur within 60 seconds, if not, make the situation easier for your dog by lessening the stimulus either by increasing the distance or turning the dog around so he cannot see things as well. Do not punish or get angry with your dog (see Using Punishment Effectively and Why Punishment Should Be Avoided). If your dog is aroused and reactive then recognize the need to slow down and progress at a less stimulating pace. Remember the goal is for your dog to have a positive, pleasant experience.

 

“Any behavior you reward is likely to occur again.” 

Positive reinforcement is used to reinforce desirable behaviors. Remember: any behavior you reward is likely to occur again.

my bolding

https://vcahospitals.com/know-your-pet/reducing-fear-of-veterinary-visits-for-dogs 

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Going back to the OP and the second option I am not sure that giving an anxious dog treats is the best way to go. I have an anxious dog who detests vets and I wonder if giving her treats when she is carrying on is just rewarding and reinforcing the anxious behaviour.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

She is beautiful. I love black dogs and she has such a shiny coat.

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