BarbedWire

I'd like to think i would say something appropriate.. but it always happens so quickly!

Generally people aren't receptive to advice anyway, unless it comes from trusted source.

I agree about the right timing, and some people just have an air of authority about them don't they? I'm a hothead who lets fly first and then later I regret it so I achieve very little I'm afraid. That poor kid I refer to in my OP probably did not know what had hit him. I felt bad later.

Welcome to DOL. I think this thread has probably just about run its course, but I did not want to leave your post unanswered since it is your first. :)

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I really don't like saying anything to other owners, but I have done when absolutely necessary...

I had a minor incident at the fenced in dog park when a westie attacked my 24kg Husky. It was a bit vicious but my dog wasn't hurt, The man with the Westie, folded up his lead and was about to belt his little dog. I just said "DONT!" to him in no uncertain terms and he stopped. He later came in by himself and apologised to me.

There was another chap with a very nervous mid sized dog in the same off lead park and he had him on lead in the middle of the park and the poor dog would be in-between the owners legs and would snap at any dogs that approached. He slapped his dog on the mouth. I told him that this was not going to help his dog overcome the fear and he can either try a short period of off lead in this area or take his dog out. Bearing in mind this is purpose built off-lead enclosure. He was so over protective that the dog must have been super stressed out so he eventually left. I didn't really want to say what I thought, as it would have simply been, "leave the park - now" as it is not my place to order someone around and believe that giving them the opportunity to make the decision on what would be best for their dog would be more diplomatic :D

I really think that lots of owners will smack their dogs as a way of showing another owner that they realise their dog has done something inappropriate. It is a fine line between someone who just doesn't care and someone that cares but doesn't know what to do or how to react.

If my dog is rude...and on occasions he can be, especially being an early teenage husky, I will clip on his lead and take him to a far corner of the park and get him to sit, then drop to calm him and then let him off again. If he is rude again - I will repeat and say "If you are going to be rude, we will have to go home" - now I know he doesn't really understand this but it tells the others at the park that I am keeping a good eye on his behaviour. If he does the third misdemeanour - I will clip his lead on and say - "okay, lets go, no more play" again the words are more for those around us to know I won't just let him create havoc. Having said that if the misdemeanour is more than being 'a bit rude' he will get marched out immediately.

Again my thoughts are that I believe that there are quite a lot of owners who just don't know what to do - they are shocked, worried, embarrassed or perhaps nervous and they think a slap shows others that they know that their dog has erred

What a wonderful post Yonjuro. So much wisdom, especially the bolded part.

Thankyou for this Yippee Girl. This is what I was thinking of in my OP.

I was once at the groomers and a woman brought in a rotti to be washed. It was incredibly obese, must have been about 80 kg and the owner was so proud of it and seemed to think an overweight rotti was what all rotti owners want. I wondered how the groomers were going to manage such an enormous dog. They would have needed special lifting equipment and an enormous tub.

Yes it's sad. People always think German Shepherds (the breed I have) should be massive. However, usually I find they are either grossly underestimating their dog's true weight/size, or their dog is overweight.

There's no way I'd be alpha rolling a dog I didn't know. Our dogs don't care what I do with them, but there are some dogs I have known that would certainly take exception.

When we were at the vet not that long ago a puppy class in, and one owner of a very small dog was talking about how they were biting their puppy to show it who is boss. I almost died laughing on the spot.

I hope the pup has had its rabies shots. :D

I use a growly "aarrgghh" with my girls... or "leave it!" in a deep growly voice.

I'd never try to alpha roll a strange dog... that would just be stupid IMHO. I knew my boy well, and knew he wasn't likely to bite me no matter what I did - but he needed to be stopped from being the pushy and obnoxious turd he was being at the time and nothing else was working... funnily enough, it must have been exactly what he needed in order to learn that mummy wasn't going to put up with his crap... I flipped him over and growled in his face, then let him go, that's it - pretty much the same way my girls did with obnoxious foster pups.

T.

That's a good word T. If you say bah in a deep growly voice it sounds like a bleating sheep. :D

I find it sad that people just filmed the attack without helping. Surely someone could have done something.

its owner yelled its name and yelled NO BAD BAHHH BAHHH whilst pinning it to the ground and also whacked it over the nose

Guess who's had Bark Busters in... *sigh*

The last time I saw someone alpha roll their dog, I asked them if they'd like to try it on my Rotti/Pittie girl - with the warning that she'd tear them a new one if they tried it... they declined the offer, and stopped doing it to their own dog while I was there at least.

T.

I thought Cesar Milan did the alpha roll and it's barkbusters that chuck chains around and say bah. :)

Both I think nowdays. Have seen this from CM fans & Bark Busters clients.

Horrible, regardless.

Reminds me of the time years ago, a friend tried that with a new entire Mareema male that had just come out of quarantine.

We both know who got alpha rolled.

It must be catchy because I say 'bah' to my dogs when they are about to eat something I don't want them to eat, such as other dogs' or cats' droppings. It's a good word to express disgust.

It's one of the sad things about the easily bought soon forgotten poodle mixes that they need cost care that doesn't happen. I've been told before that because they're not purebred they don't need grooming.

Because of the marketing I think a lot of oodle owners think they are easy care which they interpret as meaning they don't need grooming. Having a matted coat would be so painful. It would be like having your hair pulled all the time.

Our elderly neighbour kills her dogs with kindness. They have all been fat, poorly socialised, and have all had terrible manners.

Her previous dog was an under-socialised, backyard bred, dog aggressive, white boxer. The poor dog was grossly obese but whenever we mentioned it to her, our comments would be swept aside. Of course, she always thinks our dogs were skinny, so whenever she was babysitting our previous dogs, she would overfeed them. One of our dogs died of bloat while she was babysitting it, and after telling us she completely cleared out the fridge because our dog was sad, we do wonder if that had anything to do with it.

Her present dog is this mixed small breed who is overweight by at least several kilograms, has a multitude of fear issues that are never addressed, and has some sort of allergy that results in her almost constantly scratching herself raw. Her toilet training seems to have vastly deteriorated, and I think she also has a problem with her back end as she will often yelp if you touch her there.

This dog is certainly not mistreated in the sense that she is abused or neglected. But I would say that this is certainly not a very comfortable or fulfilling existence for her.

We are very good friends with this neighbour, and we have tried countless times to help with her dogs. We have purchased Applaws dry dog food (she is a pensioner) for her to try as the dog gets fed Beneful and human scraps such as buttered toast. But she always tells us her dog won't touch any 'proper' dog dry, most likely because she still continues to fill her up on scraps. When I was looking after the dog for several days, the dog didn't get any extra food but the dry I put in the bowl. She wouldn't eat it the first night, but it was gone when I came back the next morning, and in the days following that.

However, as soon as the neighbour comes back, the dog refuses to eat the food and is instead given human scraps and crap quality dog food. She also starts having accidents in the house again because the neighbour doesn't realise you stay out with the dog until it goes to the toilet.

We gave her a list of questions to take to the vet about the dog's allergies. She was given some tablets, and my mum had to give them to the dog because she would snap and bite her owner. In the end, it went nowhere and the poor dog still scratches herself almost non-stop.

The son and his family who also live with her, recently picked up a doodle looking thing from somewhere. When it came it was all cut and bleeding from being badly clipped. However, they haven't had it clipped since and every time I go over there I tell them that their dog needs clipping soon as she is going to start getting matted. I doubt they even brush the poor thing.

Sadly, some people just seem content to wallow in their ignorance. Nothing you will say is ever going to get through to them. I know I will never change my neighbour's mind. So I just don't talk about the care of her dogs any more.

I've never seen anyone being physically violent with their dogs while out. So I'm not sure what I would do or say in that regard. As a petite woman, I would probably be quite scared to confront a strange man or group of people who are abusing their dog in such a manner.

Sorry I did not realise my post was so long :laugh:

Thankyou for this Yippee Girl. This is what I was thinking of in my OP.

I was once at the groomers and a woman brought in a rotti to be washed. It was incredibly obese, must have been about 80 kg and the owner was so proud of it and seemed to think an overweight rotti was what all rotti owners want. I wondered how the groomers were going to manage such an enormous dog. They would have needed special lifting equipment and an enormous tub.

I have a book here (Train your dog the easy way) by Danny and Sylvia Wilson who are the founders of Bark Busters

I quote from page 10:

Although food is sometimes used as a basis for training, we believe that training a dog in this way will not make for success, because your method will not be meeting the dog's need for a pack leader.

Then further down the page:

You can successfully use food to help in training when you are teaching new tricks.

The idea of a pack leader was so in vogue at one time, and Cesar Milan has popularised it even further. I remember about 20 years ago being given information from my local dog training club about making sure you're the pack leader by going first through doors and eating first and making your dog wait. Today the same club is all about rewards based training. Personally I think alpha rolls are scary stuff and I wouldn't be game to try it especially if I had a big dog who was agitated.

Edited to change an error. The author's name was Wilson not Weston.

Over the past few months DAS doesn't seem to have as many dogs as usual. I have no idea why. Not many if any are being transferred from the RSPCA. Previously there were about four each week.

I wonder if it is compulsory microchipping making a difference to the stats because I don't think it is being policed. Maybe there is another reason. Perhaps dog ownership is declining.

I wonder what was the reasoning behind the introduction of the minimum age.

A guy frequents my local park with two aggressive staffies. A few months ago one of his dogs was attacking another dog, and the distressed owner of the other dog pushed the staffy off with his foot. The staffy owner ranted in his face and for a while it really looked like violence would ensue.

There's been a number of problems with this guy over the last 6 months, but he still comes to the park and still causes trouble. Yesterday his dogs attacked a border collie, and when the young female owner complained he followed her up the street shouting.

What would be the best course of action? Nobody wants to tackle the guy directly, and I don't know where he lives. I can't imagine calling the police would go anywhere?

and no one did anything? How awful for her.

I agree Rebanne. Isn't it some sort of offence to follow someone up the street shouting? I would be so terrified if that happened to me.

I would be notifying the police and the rangers and ask for advice.

its owner yelled its name and yelled NO BAD BAHHH BAHHH whilst pinning it to the ground and also whacked it over the nose

Guess who's had Bark Busters in... *sigh*

The last time I saw someone alpha roll their dog, I asked them if they'd like to try it on my Rotti/Pittie girl - with the warning that she'd tear them a new one if they tried it... they declined the offer, and stopped doing it to their own dog while I was there at least.

T.

I thought Cesar Milan did the alpha roll and it's barkbusters that chuck chains around and say bah. :)

Another instance I can think of is being at the dog park and a guy had a westie that was filthy and matted. I told him with a smile that his dog needed a bath. He replied that you don't wash dogs. That's sissy. How do they survive in nature?

I don't go to dog parks anymore because I can't stand moronic owners. And I suppose that poor little westie is still ungroomed.

I've given food, clipped dogs and paid for vet treatment when I know it's an issue of money for the owner.

If it's a lame dog or appears to be struggling through an illness/injury I will ask the owner if they are aware that their dog appears to be in discomfort.

If it's how it is being 'trained' or 'punished' I will usually say some thing like, "Do you think that is appropriate? Have you thought to try........?"

Fortunately I haven't seen too much physical abuse, but if I follow form in terms of other physical abuse I've seen perpetuated against people...I'll probably say the first thing that falls out of my mouth and damn the consequence.

I did think of offering to pay to have the maltese clipped, but I am not really all that financial either.

I usually try the friendly approach first... start chatting about their dog and how friendly it is and such, then kind of start generally talking about the condition of the coat or whatever, and what they could try to make it more comfortable for the dog...

If I see someone actually physically abusing their dog, I'm not usually quite as friendly about it...

T.

I wish I could be cool too, but I am a bit of a hothead where animals and children are concerned.

I sometimes see things that have really upset me when I'm out with my guys. I often wonder what other folks do too actually. Do you say something??? Intervene or what??? I have spoken up on occasion only to be told to 'F' off & it is none of my business. And it probably isn't but I can't bare the thought after witnessing abuse not to speak up & a least intervene if I can.

I have seen one young couple with a SWF at our local dog beach on a coldish sort of day stand on the shore at low tide & literally throw this puppy up in the air & out into the shallows Apparently teaching her how to swim :mad I sore read. I couldn't believe it ! They were a distance away from me so I yelled out to them 'what the hell are you doing' to which they answered, 'teaching fido how to swim'. I walked up & asked them why aren't they going into the water as well then & they said 'Oh no it is too cold". I say, but you expect that tiny puppy to want to go in then?' HMMM... & another thing that is not the way to treat any animal. You don't bloody throw them I also showed them that it was indeed low tide & if you want to break puppies legs, just keep doing what you are doing then. I was fuming but kept my cool to get my point across. They actually ended up thanking me in the end but I wasn't after thanks just wanted them to stop mistreating this poor little pup. Shocking really some of the things you see. Amazes/horrifies me.

That poor little JR op I wonder what happened to him???

You handled that well BC Crazy. The JRT was dragged for about six metres. I like to think the boy was as shocked as I was. It did appear to be unharmed afterward. Amongst other things I did say I would report it to the RSPCA. I think that possibly they might have rehomed it. I do hate seeing dogs, especially small ones tied to bikes though.

Personal liability worries. They are scared that if they sign off a dog as an Amstaff and then the dog is involved in some kind of incident that the authorities will say it's a Pit Bull and they're liable for signing it off.

I disagree with that. A vet isn't liable for signing off a dog as environmentally safe, they are signing off on breed, so if they can't scientifically prove a dog is a Pit Bull and they need to employ a visual test which the Amstaff fits, they can't scientifically prove that a dog isn't an Amstaff to prosecute a vet for an incorrect breed assessment so they have nothing to worry about. It just takes a vet brave enough to sign a piece of paper and not hide behind lip service to free a dog unfairly subject to euthanasia by appearance. If someone had a dog fitting the visual description and produced a vet declaration as an Amstaff to an ACO, compliance would be more the nature of the exercise not questioning the vets breed assessment. An ACO can't seize a dog fitting the visual description when the owner produces an Amstaff declaration as ownership the dog then complies with legislation whether in fact it is a pure breed Amstaff or not?

BSL is about Pit Bull restriction as the other listed breeds don't exist if they do it's a miniscule number, so perhaps it should be about freeing the Pit Bull from the list, not the abolishment of BSL? The GSD Club freed the GSD from the list when subject to BSL by breed promotion proving to politicians that the breed was safe where they consequently overturned the restriction. What people don't understand is abolishing BSL means the introduction of more supposed dangerous breeds and that will never happen.....the first one who gets chomped by a Dogo or Fila it's going to hit the fan big time......no one is going to abolish BSL entirely for the introduction of breeds that are not here in the first place to cause a safety concern. It's not only about Pit Bulls, it also about opening the gate to the rest on the list and who in reality is going to do this to appease a small number of anti BSL supporters versus the greater community?

Someone told me about 5 years ago that a Pitbull breeder ran a litter off Amstaff papers.....not sure the truth in it, but the breeder for some time now has produced working line Amstaff's......bit naughty, but pretty smart legalising Pit Bulls from another angle :D

This is a very interesting discussion and I am out of my depth but (see bolded part) I just wanted to know what do working Amstaffs do?

I have been thinking about the topic of how you respond if someone criticizes the way you raise your dogs and I thought it might be interesting to discuss the opposite. What do you say if you see someone abusing their dog? By abuse I don't mean physically bashing it but more the abuse that comes from neglect or ignorance.

As an example the other day I was out walking and I met a girl of about thirteen with a maltese which was badly in need of a groom. Its coat was severely matted and dirty. I tried being friendly and asked if I could pat her dog. I then realised she had a speech impediment and was very difficult to understand. I then knew that it was going to be impossible to communicate so I said nothing about the dog's coat. I am sort of wishing I had. A matted coat can be quite painful.

Another example is a family who lived in the next street to me and who had a JRT. When they rode their bikes the JRT would be tied to one of the bikes. I always felt sorry for it as it raced along as fast as its little legs could carry it. Then one day when the boy of the family was about fourteen I saw him coming along with the dog and, when he speeded up to go down a short hill, the poor little dog lost its footing and got dragged. I was horrified and told him off. I never saw the dog again. I don't know if they got rid of it or just left it in the yard.

I am interested to know what you say if you see a dog you believe is being misused in some way or do you say nothing?

So sorry to hear about this. I hope you are recovering well. You have such lovely photos to remember your girl forever. She was obviously so loved.

What a super gorgeous little dog she is. Well done dogmad

I am 67 and have two active Koolies, Perry who is nearly 12 and Friskie who is 14. I adopted Friskie a year ago when her previous owner died and she has settled in happily here. I have ankylosing spondylitis which limits my mobility but I have an arrangement with neighbours to walk the dogs regularly. I am not expecting these two to be my last dogs but any future ones will also be elderly rescues. Australian Koolie Rescue often rehomes dogs to older people if they can provide the right kind of home and the arrangement is always that their dogs can come back to us at any time. We have just rehomed a 3 year old failed worker who just wants to be cuddled to a retired farmer and his wife who are in their early 70s.

I apologize if I'm going too far off topic but I don't want to start a new thread. :)

Perry's Mum, could you tell me more about Koolies, especially the ones that don't want to work. How heavy are they and are they barkers? Are they good with children? I really want another dog to trial (I have one more left in me) and I think my children would love a Koolie if anything were to happen to me.

@keetamouse I have written to several local politicians, including Katy Gallagher, but haven't received any reply. I know Michael Linke said back in 2011 that he hoped the TAMS annual report would use a rehome rate based on all dogs as early as 2011. That still has not happened Hopefully with enough public pressure things might change? http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/pound-earns-praise-for-rehoming-dogs-20111005-1v746.html

DAS have nothing to be ashamed of. Their work is great.

@sarsaparilla the %rehomed after reclaimed is the percentage of ALL dogs rehomed to a new home (i.e. adopted/rescued) after excluding those dogs that just went back to their original owner. At least in the ACT just over 50% of dogs that come to either RSPCA ACT or DAS pound are just beloved pets that have gotten out of their yard and been picked up. These are usually reclaimed by their owner after just one or two days. So the %rehomed after reclaimed is the standard rehoming rate, excluding from the denominator these reclaimed dogs.

Thankyou so that column heading means %rehomed after removing the reclaimed ones from the figures.

I agree with HW. People do probably think I'm a crazy dog person, but I really don't care and if I was told I was, it would just go in one ear and out the other.

That being said I am critical of the way some other people care for their dogs. :laugh: And their children :laugh: