Stormy

There is something in place. I don't race greyhounds so am not up with all the in's and out's but talking to someone a few months ago there does seem to be some restrictions. The main one I recall is something along the lines of: if the bitch didn't race and/or didn't win, they were allowed 2 litters to prove their worth as a brood bitch. If none of the off spring did any good and the owner wanted to breed again, they had to say why and get approval from the racing board.

All matings are recorded, all results of those matings have to be recorded, misses, how many born alive, how many born dead, if the numbers don't match up between being born and ear marked (12 weeks) what happened to the missing pups (not sure if you need a vet to sign of on ones that died in those 12 weeks). Stud dogs were limited to 14 matings a month but I don't know the current regulations regarding this now everything is AI and often frozen semen is used. And of course semen is split into breeding units.

As I said I don't race greys, mine are show bred, so a disclaimer: this is all what I am pretty sure happens, some of it did happen but might have changed, and I am relying on my memory which can be faulty :)

Thanks Rebanne, I was just curious if breeding was regulated like in the show dog world :)

I'd be interested to know if the process that Vic Racing has in place has reduced the numbers bred & killed each year in the state. I did a quick Google but couldn't find anything on a state by state breakdown but will have a better look later on.

I assume nothing will be done?

The problem has been around for more years than anyone would care to count and considering the vast numbers of greys still killed every year I'd say it's unlikely for anything to happen any time soon.

I can't comment on the racing side, but in rescue, like Stormy I am sick of trainers over breeding and disposing of them so quickly and easily.

I have been at the pound too many times and watched trainers walk in with 3 or 4 youngsters to be killed, why?, its cheaper to take them to the pound than pay a vet to pts, that's all.

Their life expectancy needs to be longer, even if they race its short.

Couldn't agree more.

Juice, you were with me at the above mentioned vet. It would be great to be able to shift peoples perception away from these dogs being just a commodity who are discarded once their "value" seems to have expired.

I was introduced to Greyhounds during my time in rescue. Prior to that I had very little knowledge bar them being a racing dog.

For me it was truly one of the horrors amongst the many that I saw in rescue, where a breed of dog was culled in such larger numbers when in their prime. Though there are bred specific rescues, they can't even come close to taking them all and many other rescues don't take them on (in numbers anyway) as they're a hard dog to adopt out due to lack of public knowledge on the breed.

As mentioned before not all greys are suitable for living the domestic life, but that is also true of most breeds.

I doubt any other breed has the birth to death ratio like the greyhound, the dog that was born to die young for the most part.

While it's a nice ideal things like this can push the problem further underground. It's unfortunately easy for people to alter registration figures or do things like destroy dogs prior to registration etc.

The industry needs to change from within so that people that continue to be involved in poor practices are the increasing minority and will actually be outed by other industry members.

Maybe that's where they need to tighten the regulations - though how I'm not sure.

The problems run much deeper. If 80% of the trainers are doping their dogs as one of the insiders in the report claims, the whole viability of the 'sport' should be called into question IMO.

It's almost beyond being salvaged.

Personally I would love the money aspect to be removed from racing. That would see a huge drop in litters / deaths simply because they'd be in it for the love of the sport & breed. Sighthounds are magic to watch in full flight.

But unfortunately there's no way they'd cull a multi million dollar industry. Money talks loudest

In Victoria nowadays all greyhounds disposed of have to be accounted for to the GRV.

Rebanne - do you know if there are limits in Victoria as to how many litters each bitch can have a year?

During my time in rescue it was not uncommon to see a trainer walk into the pound with 4 - 6 greys to surrender during my visits. Most would have been between 18 - 24 months old, but didn't have a strong enough prey drive or just weren't fast enough.

As they were surrenders they didn't have to stay in the pound for any given time, and if the pound was already full they would be walked out the back and euthanaised straight away.

Equally as horrifying was the attitude of one of the vets out that way, that when we turned up with several greys that needed their vaccinations so they could go out to various rescue groups remarked "They're only greyhounds, why are you wasting you time?"

One can only dream that they can somehow restrict the numbers bred each year - it would be a start at least.

Whilst money is to made off the backs of these gorgeous dogs I doubt any real progress will be made in the numbers destroyed (and the cruel methods) each year, though I would love to be proven wrong.

I think like most things, people tend to be more forward in posting negative reviews than positive ones!

That is true too aliwake , people are more likely to complain than praise!

Yes...I agree. Stormy why don't you pop over to the Chinese Crested thread, if there is one :) Personally, if I had a little hairless dog like you, I would be just doing a daily search & picking off any ticks. They do have to be on for a while before they do any damage & he may even build up a slight immunity to them, which I believe only lasts for one season.

There are also these little ultrasonic things which I have used quite successfully in the past as a back-up to spot-ons, but I got sick & tired of taking it off before they went swimming & of course, sometimes they sneak off to the dam without me knowing :laugh: Skudos

Thanks sheena, I didn't think of the Cresty thread

After reading all the info on ticks and preventatives I'm leaning towards just the daily checks at this stage as he is an easy dog to check (as are our others). Knowing we have a time to find them (and someone is home most days) I feel that we should hopefully be able to stay on top of it all. I was just a bit concerned when Nemo got 6 ticks in three days (which is the most we've ever had) but since clearing the yard on the weekend, he's not had any (neither have the others), so I'm hoping we've reduced the numbers at least.

I do like the look of that electronic device so may look at trying a couple of those (possibly one for my OH too as he's seems to get a few tick too when working in the yard). We don't have a dam thankfully - mind you our dogs seem to have an aversion to water, they jump over puddles or go around and hate going outside in the rain, sad really :laugh:

The current collars, ie preventic, kiltix and scalibor have lower efficacy than topicals.

Collars are approx preventic 74%

Kiltix 92%

Scalibor 81%

Topicals:

Advantix 98% fortnightly application

Frontline 62% fortnightly application

Frontline spray 87% sprayed externally once every 2-3 weeks

Permoxin 67% sprayed every 3-5 days

Advantix is the only one that repels as well as kills.

This is good to know, thanks :)

Here's a link to customer reviews on it Customer reviews

That's worrying

I've been Googling and DOLing looking at options and Advantix seemed to come out as preferred in effectiveness but there too seems to be a lot of reaction to it, like the Scalibor collar.

I'm still trying to work out what's the lessor of the two evils, ticks or chemicals

One of the last ticks we pulled off Nemo was definitely a paralysis tick, it was bigger than the others by a fair bit and a different shape (female by the looks of the Id photos) but yes, the others may well be bush / brown ticks (they were tiny).

We do get bandicoots and possums but unfortunately there's no way we can stop anything that size from getting into our yard, I'm still trying to work out how to stop the Bush / Brush Turkey from flying over the fence into the newly fenced portion as I'm not sure who's going to come off worse, the turkey or the dogs...

It all depends on the individual dog, not really it's size. We had a maltese X living here when he was just a pup. He disappeared during a thunderstorm & came back 3 days later with at least 6 of the really bad guys on him. I picked them off him & kept an eye on him for a couple of days & he had absolutely no effect. At the age of 15 he still doesn't get affected. We also had a lab x BC living with us & she got one tick on her head..we got it straight away, but she went down like a pack of cards about 12 hours after. Never put anything on the tick to kill it, always just get your nail underneath & pull it off. I believe its a fallacy that you have to make sure you get all of its head out.

That's interesting Sheena re the reactions of two very different sized breeds, and totally opposite of what you'd think (bigger animal taking more time to succumb).

We don't put anything on it, just remove it with either the tick remover or, if it's too small, just a pair of tweezers.

I came across this paper on paralysis ticks by the vet Mike Cannon, and found it really informative.

It might answer some questions.

Thanks jemappelle it's an interesting read.

It's also dispelled one thought I had - "Toxicity does not relate directly to tick size or duration of attachment".

We normally find the ticks the same day. Admittedly some of the tiny ones are hard to find until they actually attach and cause slight swelling (of the tick and/or the site), so possibly the next day.

So far Nemo hasn't shown any signs of tick poisoning (coughing, vomiting or being unstable on his feet), so I'm hopeful that we're removing them in an acceptable time frame.

It's making me wish I could drop a match and clear our block (of leaf litter, shrubs & grass and all!).

I asked her today & she said she doesn't use anything, just picks the ticks off. Reason being that her cresties don't have any hair for it to adhere to. Very easy to find the ticks & they are just little dogs.

Thanks Sheena, that's what we have been doing up till now too :)

We haven't used a tick preventative as yet as we have been able to find the ticks pretty easily on our dogs, but after having opened up a larger area of our yard for the dogs we've of course found more ticks.

Does anyone know how long after getting a tick will the dog show symptoms? I know it's relative to the size of dog and tick but is there a rough guide line?

http://www.scalibor-usa.com/

Stans Mum - I'd be interested to hear how you go with this. If I can get over my aversion of collars I might use it on my other three as most other tick treatments need to be reapplied every two weeks, or so we were told.

Sorry should have said, yes it does run a bit so just do it a tiny bit at a time and have some cotton wool handy to smear it in the right direction :)

Good to know, thanks :)

Spot on treatments do NOT go into the lymph systems. They disseminate and go to the lipid layer of skin. Re a Cresty being hairless, the actives would go to the lipid layer. however May I suggest a call to the customer information line on 1800678368 to get correct technical support from the vets re this.

Will do, thanks :)

It wouldn't work well on cresties as it has no hair to stick to I would imagine. Since he has hair around his face I would be inclined to double check it with the company and then just use a partial dose up high between his ears so that it goes through the hair around his face which is where he mostly gets ticks anyway, you'd still need to check him though. If it's OK to use on him you could mist the rest of him lightly with permoxin before you go walkies.

Tick pick up the heat signature of animals walking past. Since his has no fur to trap body heat he would be letting off a higher heat signature than a regular dog which explains why he's a magnet for them :)

Well that makes sense, thanks. Nemo is like a little furnace, we all want to be his best friend in the cooler months :D

Lipid Layers not only produce hair follicles but also skin cell development. Most topical applications that disseminate to and from the lipid layer, also reside on the hair and dander and skin surrounds. However reiterating my original suggestion of contacting the customer service helpline and the vets can advise you correctly. An interesting question and I will be studying more for my own interests on this.

Also for further environmental tick contol you could use Solfac Pro diluted and sprayed around your yard for 3 month residual effect for treatment of ticks. Have fun gardening and I hope you Cresty is safe in the interim.

Thanks, I'll look into that too :)

all for your replies, it's greatly appreciated.

Just curious...but is the reason you can't use a spot on treatment, because the dog has no hair follicles for it to adhere to I have a friend with cresties, & I will ask her tonight what she uses on hers :)

The spot ons work their way into the lymph system and spread through the skin, so lack of hair follicles shouldn't matter it would be more the sensitivity of the Crestie's skin that would be a problem.

Yep, that's was what I'm worried about too. Mind you he's like a lizard and is worse than Donatella Versace with his attempt to get a tan :laugh: so gives the impression of a tough hide but I've been worried about the chemical reaction.

My greyhounds both get itchy from Advantix spot on that I had previously used on my RidgebackX with excellent results. I have been told by many greyhound people not to use tick collars but my vet has just stocked this new one Scalibor which he said was safe to use on them so I'm going to try them. The best thing is they are odourless because the others stink at first.

http://www.scalibor-usa.com/

I can't remember the brand we used once on the whippets (when they went into boarding) but Storm now has a permanent patch of wavy fur where we put it on, it's really weird.

I'm a bit worried leaving collars on the dogs (they don't wear theirs at home) after reading threads about dogs getting choked. Dante is really big on pouncing on Nemo's neck when they play fight which also makes me worry about the chemicals that he too might ingest from either a collar or liquid.

I know I'm probably being a bit paranoid - I'm worried about the effects of using a treatment and the effect of not, just trying to find a happy medium

I don't use anything on Louis as he has IMHA at the moment, and we are in a low risk area, but have used Frontline a couple of times in the past. Having looked on the USA based Crestie forum, many people seem to use the spot-on treatment, but just put it a bit higher up in their crest.

Maybe pm YellowGirl as she has a lot of Crestie experience :)

Nemo is a cutie-pie :D

Thanks CC, that's promising to hear re Frontline / Spot On. I did kind of wonder just where you put it as I figured it would just run down his shoulders / back, with nothing to halt its progress :laugh:

Unfortunately we are in a high tick area

I'll shoot a PM to Yellowgirl, thanks :)

Nemo and cute, hmmmmm. He has the head of a sucked mango as he never got the traditional flowing mane of a Crestie. He's been known to stop traffic in the street when we walked him (people have thought that he was diseased or a hyena) :laugh: but then again they also think our Iggy is a by product of our two whippets whom they think are greyhounds *sigh*

Just curious...but is the reason you can't use a spot on treatment, because the dog has no hair follicles for it to adhere to I have a friend with cresties, & I will ask her tonight what she uses on hers :)

Sheena from what I understand it's more that it would cause a skin reaction. I'd be more than happy to just massage it all over otherwise

Strangely though our two whippets, who've had the same exposure outside, haven't had any ticks so far and our Iggy has only had one tiny one. So I'm not sure if their ultra short / fine coats help prevent the ticks from latching on to them

I'd love to hear what your friend uses, thanks :)

Nemo, our Cresty, seems to be a tick magnet. He's had six so far in the last couple of weeks. All have been on his face (especially around his eyes), so I was wondering if we should shave off what little hair he has, would that make it harder for the ticks to latch onto him when he's outside?

Everything I've read online recommends to not put chemicals on their skin (fluid & collars) so is there something else we can use (ie a natural product) safely?

We're going to cut all low lying branches and clear out as many shrubs / ferns as possible this weekend but as we're on a bush block it's going to be impossible to clear everything.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated :)

Neither of Storm's (my whippet) testicles had descended by 6 months of age when we had him desexed.

They were found quite high up so it was a big surgery for a male & by memory it cost us $360 around 7 1/2 years ago.

EFS

I'm so jealous, I would love to get some chickens but I honestly can't imagine our lot not trying to hunt / chase / kill them

I never thought I'd be able to either. I had the chooks penned for many months, all through Winter and Puck was jealous and would rush at the wire. I never really told him off, I just used to say (and still do) in a flat deadpan voice, so no enthusiasm in my tone, "no, we don't chase the chickens" or occasionally I'd say "leave". Then when the weather started warming up I put the chooks in my old chook dome that I made years ago, and in there they could peck at grass and scratch around. I let the dogs get up close to sniff them through the wire, but all the time reminding them that we don't chase the chickens. I only did that for 2 days I think when I decided to see how they'd go loose.

I'm now trying to teach Iggy Mums iggies and min pin cross and it's going well too. One day I might be able to post a photo with visiting dogs and my gang and the chickens all together.............in peace and harmony. :laugh: Wouldn't that be nice. :D

That's good to know Kirislin, thanks. It gives me hope! :)

I'm so jealous, I would love to get some chickens but I honestly can't imagine our lot not trying to hunt / chase / kill them

Thanks Austerra & Kirislin and everyone else for your input, it's greatly appreciated. :)

I've picked up a Weatherbeeta harness today (it looks as comfortable as the Puppia but made from neoprene). I'll see how we go with it but haven't ruled out the Ruff Wear Web Master if needed.

Thanks CrazyCresties I'll certainly look at those too. :)

Juice - Good thinking :) Though at the moment I'm loathe to put anything around his neck, but once he's better it would certainly give me that added security.

Thanks Huski (sorry missed your post initially). Ruff Wear do get good reviews - I thought they were more for working / sporty dogs (rescue / hiking) - glad to know they are suitable for whippets too :)

OSoSwift - I could add padding - the way I sew it just woudln't be pretty :p but may be my best bet.

His martingale has given me a sense of security over the years that I've grown used to.

Thanks Meggie. The Weatherbeeta ones look good too (similar to the Puppia ones). The Cleanrun ones look really confortable but with the deeper V at the neck was worried that it might make it easier for him to back out of (mind you he never has but I suppose that doesn't mean he never will).

By the looks of it odds are that I'm going to end up with more than one!

Thanks OSoSwift. I did look at the Ruff Wear ones, though their padding is on the back (I assume to help protect them from packs etc) rather than having padding on the chest / shoulders.

On looks alone the Puppia ones looks more comfortable but would like to find one that is both comfortable (as they don't have much of their own padding / body fat) and secure.

I know the best thing to do would be to take him out to try them on but not in the state he's currently in.

I'm torn between walking him as the vet suggests or letting him rest as he's still in pain (had to go get more painkillers ) I just want to do whatever will make him get better as fast as possible.

I'm looking for a harness for one of my whippets who currently has a neck injury. Due to his build I was hoping that someone here can recommend one that works well with the sight hound shape (deep chest & narrow head) as I don't want him to be able to slip out of it.

He does have a wide leather martingale but I don't want to use that whilst he's in recovery and the vet has recommended light walking to prevent the muscles seizing (I'm also using heat packs and light massage on top of his meds to try and help).

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated :)

Edited to add I have Googled and have found a few that look ok (Ezydog, Puppia, Ruffwear & Cleanrun), but was hoping someone here has first hand experience with any of them (or others) on a whippet.

My blue and white Whippet was mistaken for a Kangaroo...........my neighbour saw her sitting, from behind, and must have needed glasses. 100% true

The new, true blue kangaroo...

People often call our whippets Greyhounds, and think our Iggy is their pup (obviously colour plays not part in this)

As for our Mutant we've had him called a Hyena, another guy walked up and asked "What the hell is that?". We've even had people stop their car in the middle of the road to ask what he is...

There are some nasty, cruel ferals out there

Demon is lucky that the @holes didn't use broadhead / hunting arrows...

Doubt I could do it - makes me feel sick just thinking about it