Erny

I tend to adapt games where I can. Eg. If doing "musical mats" .... the ones who are "knocked out" then have to walk their dogs on a loose lead (or heel, depending on what level they are at) around the outside of the group who are still "in". Whether they walk in the same direction or in the opposite direction again depends on the level of obedience they are at, and what group of dogs are in the class. This creates a higher level distraction for those still "in" as well as keeping the others moving and training, as the "in" dogs are a distraction for them too. If I have enough instructor availability, the extra instructor/s can be watching the LLW's and, again, depending on their level, periodically call out commands to "sit" or "drop" or "stand" or to recall out and away, and then resume LLW or heel. I have also done a 'game' where dogs and handlers are in a line. I call out 'forward' and they walk (LLW or heel, depending on skill level of group) forward. I turn around away from them and call out a commanded position. I count seconds (how many, depends on the class level) and then turn around. Whoever I spot who is still not in the commanded position goes back to the start line. Everyone else keeps moving forward from the spot they were at. The 'winner' is the first one to the line, but no-one gets "knocked out" .... they're all still in there and training. Hhhhmmm .... that was a good game - even the ones who are almost at the finish line can find themselves way back at the start again, and people who think they no longer stand a chance can still suddenly find themselves at the front. Haven't done it for a little while, so might see if I can integrate it into one or two of my groups. There's also things I have done in stay work. Handlers (eg) drop their dogs at a 'line'. The handler has to walk away from their dog to a specific 'line' and return to their dog, release and move to another line forward of the one they were originally at. They repeat, but need to walk away from their dog to a different (further) specific 'line'. Any dog that breaks has to be taken back to the start line. It is similar to the one I've just explained above. I mix this one up a fair bit - with changes of position; making handlers do the 'walk' to line twice so their dogs don't begin anticipating release etc. The 'winner' is the one who gets their dog to the finish line first. This means the faster the handler is, the more chance they will get their first. EXCEPT, the faster the handler is (eg. running) the higher the intensity for the dog, who might break as a result. So it makes people work within the capabilities of their individual dog's skill level. There's more - sometimes I make things (rules) up on the spot to suit a particular group. But I like to keep those who are "knocked out" part of the group and active.

I agree, FDT. I don't like games that then leave people standing on the sideline looking on. They are there to train as well, not to stand around looking at the others. Knock-out games aren't as motivating as what some people/instructors think. Knock-out games are more appropriate for (eg) Christmas fun events, where people can pick and choose which fun competition they'll put their dog into. I like games that provide competitive motivation and which might reveal to some where their training perhaps isn't as up to scratch as it could be, but where they get to enjoy the activity all the way through, even if they might be losing (so to speak). Having said that, if it is a knock-out game that's fast (ie concludes really quickly) and done only occasionally, with other interactive games tossed in the mix, then that's not so bad.

I'm really proud of the 23 DOL Victorians who have mustered to do a letter - I'm aware thata number of them contributing have sent more than one letter and not necessarily to just one MP either. I realise there are 6 people noted as being happy with the laws that will impact if the proposed Bill succeeds. Four have no time and another 6 don't believe efforts will make a difference. Assuming all of these people are Victorians (they may not be) then that's a total of 12 other DOL Victorians. That would be a rough estimate of a total of 35 Victorians. I was musing how it would be interesting to know from Troy how many DOL Members are Victorian residents to see what the percentages are. I wonder if we'd be ecstatic or dismally disappointed in DOL Victorian response to the 'cause'. But for those 23 Victorians aforementioned, good on you ;) - I know that for many your efforts and contributions have been continuing and it's good to see that there is a group of Victorian people who care about how laws can and do affect the innocent, dogs and people inclusive and are willing to stand up and make the effort to do something about it when it most counts.

How is the dog, Chewbacca?

There's a difference between selling yourself -vs- running others down to make yourself look better. IMO, if you have to rely on the latter, then there's something wrong. And this is in regards to ANY business of any nature. I agree there was nothing much wrong with the claims of what they think they have and can do. That is marketing, although they better be able to stand up to their claims of "having all the solutions" for unwanted behaviour. But creating blogs to bag out others isn't telling anyone anything about themselves and is poor reflection IMO. If people are as good as they claim, they should have no need to run others down.

Jeanne - I presume you use the word command "heel"? You would do well I think to change that command for when you don't want "heel" in the way obedience seeks "heel". In other words, start from scratch with a new command. If she is wrapping her bottom behind and crowding around your leg, that's not wanted in obedience "heel" anyway and if this is something you want to pursue I'd suggest you would need to re-work your training of "heel". But that's not what you asked in this thread, so I'm not sure if that detail is something you have need of.

Lordy - if my boy could learn to make my dinner (the way I like it, not the way he'd have it, LOL), I'd even be more than happy to share it with him .

Is it only coincidental that you share the same name as the org you are recommending? Just curious.

Yes - that's what I meant by my post above, so I think we're on the same page, Perse. I didn't teach my boy to go get stuff, by targetting. Most of his own 'things' have names, and I can ask him to go get them by name. Was rather handy the other day when it was raining and I was on the veranda with no shoes on. We were about to venture back inside when I realised Mandela had left his toy out. I told him "hey, don't forget Flea" and out he ran and brought him in. Now, if I could just teach him to make my dinner and bring it to me.

In the obedience trial ring and also in other areas of obedience, 'engaging' (focus) on the owner in all work modes including heeling is desired. Why would you want to change this? I agree with the others. Lasers drive dogs insane. Can see, but can't touch, smell or catch. For the "get it" component of what you want to teach her, start very close distance, then move further and further away. Basically, you want to teach her to retrieve, so you could blend a bit of retrieve training in to it all. Then, when she's doing that, you should be able to start hiding things and getting her to get them. And hey presto, just like magic, you should be able to send her to things that she's left under the bed.

Not trying to "guess the breed" - you've made your wishes well and truly clear and I respect them and your reasons for non-disclosure. But it wouldn't be the Canadian Pointer :D , would it? I have only seen them in a picture, but I was immediately and completely struck by them, and very much would like to pursue them further as a potential 2nd dog (if I can ever get my boy past his current issues - at the moment, they are keeping my wallet empty ).

Huh? So start from a possible (unknown) bad bunch and try to work up and over problems from there, if and when they start to crop up? And by which time there are matings on matings? When there is good (tested) breeding stock OS? I'm afraid I do not understand the logic in that. And whilst these breeders are trying to work up and over problems, their puppy owners have to deal with the financial and heart ache of issues that develop? Of course, if every one is lucky, there will be nothing wrong. But refusing to test to ensure there isn't? I don't understand why any breeder would want to put all their hard work in without knowing what they are dealing with. The only thing I can think of as to why they wouldn't test is that they don't want to know if there is anything wrong - they'd be at least morally obliged to do something about it, wouldn't they? Maybe I have the wrong end of the stick, but it sounds like head in the sand to me. That we have so much available to us now - the world is so much smaller - yet not want to take advantage of something to start of right and continue right is a puzzlement.

Thanks in advance for your efforts, Erny, in case I ever end up living in Vic! :D The way things are going here, Star, me living in NZ is not off the cards!!

Agree - but not here in Oz though - our labs do not have the facilities to run FULL blood panel thyroid tests and IMO anything less than that is potentially a waste of money. Sending the bloods to Dr Jean Dodds in the USA isn't that difficult to do - not that much more expensive and comparative time wise to getting the results known. The worst of it is organising the International Courier (Fed-Ex) and filling out the Customs paperwork. I'm going to be organising my boy to undergo another thyroid test very soon and it's the 'getting it sent away by courier' bit that is the most of what I'm not looking forward to.

Oh my goodness, then this thread has just started to make a WHOLE lot more sense to me. I was wondering what this mysterious powerful "FAI" body was and how I had never heard of it before! Oops. That should be my "oops". Sorry. Brain strain from all the effort against the current spat of laws our notorious Victorian State Government want to bring in . It was this reason also that I didn't take the time to back track to the information I had read up on about GSD Club -vs- Schutzhund. My apologies. Thank you for straightening it out, K9Nev.

Which I believe they have resolved by getting VicDogs and Govt to agree that they can import Titled dogs to this State and that whilst the dogs are being exhibited, they are exempt from the "Dangerous Dog" restrictions. Which means to me they are saying that when these dogs are being exhibited, they are not dangerous for their Sch Title but when they aren't being exhibited, they are. And this still resolves their preference to not being required to partake in Sch for the 'bad' that it is, yet herald the fact they have breeding stock that is Sch Titled for the 'good' that it is. Yep - pretty much what you said here, K9Nev : Their way of having cake and eating it too, it seems. It might benefit the breeder enthusiasts for what their goals are and the way they prefer to achieve them, but I can't see how it benefits the dogs. That's the sad bit.

I've spent more time re-working my first draft response this afternoon/evening. I won't be able to get to this (or DOL) much tomorrow, so ................ bumpity bump. The purpose of this proposed Bill is purported to be "to address community needs". A primary question in my mind is how the laws encompassed within the proposed Bill will actually help the Community? For example : a dog impounded for 48 hours instead of 8 days. That helps the Community, how? For example : a dog on lead with its owner in a public place - is registered; microchipped; but is not wearing its plastic Council Tag. An increased fine. That helps the Community, how? Ask this question in your mind as you go through each point of law that is comprised within the Bill, as you structure your letter/responses. Ask the Government. Insist on direct answers. Don't be satisfied with any washed out; watered down; prettied up; and/or dumbed down; responses.

I've read that "green" poop (dark) can occur when the digested matter has passed more quickly than normal digestion allows and that it can apparently occur when there is diarrhoea. I hope the Blood and Bone didn't do anything to score the dog's stomach and digestive system too much and hopefully the dog has outed what needed to be outed without residual damage. I've read of others here who have dogs who ingested B&B without any later known repercussions. I think I'd be consulting with a Vet on it though - although I suspect the advice is going to be a matter of "wait and see". But I'd be more comfortable with Veterinary opinion.

Yes - that's how I understand it. I've had the reasons explained to me, but not being directly involved, I tend to forget some of these things and I would need to hand this over to someone who does fully appreciate the inner workings of the breeds and breed organisations to answer properly. But my guess is that the FAI is held in great esteem (should I say, "the ultimate"?) and to have a GSD acknowledged and recognised by it would be one of the higher marks of excellence reflecting on your breeding stock. I think also there is some "Title" or trophy that GSD owner/breeders would be honoured to achieve, but that "Title" or trophy is under the auspice of the FAI and wouldn't be attainable if you didn't have the qualifying credentials behind you in the first place. I guess. I'm sure I'm being too simplistic in my answer and stand to be corrected for it.

Oh really? Fair enough then. I've got to ask though... whose agenda? And why? It doesn't seem to me that schutzhund is much of a threat to the kennel club simply because the kennel club is much larger, much better known, and much better funded (well, it is over here, anyway - I presume it's the same in Oz?) I don't know the intricacies of it all as I'm not involved in the breed, but this is the somewhat simplified summary of how I understand it : The FAI is the German "Mother Club" of GSD's. Their policies dictate that to be able to be recognised by them and to breed, the breeding stock needs to have successfully completed Level III (I think) in Schutzhund (conformation AND character assessment being intrinsically necessary to meet the FAI's standards). Many of the GSD's that are breeding stock and have been bred out here would not be able to meet the standards of this level of Schutzhund, and/or perhaps the people who own these dogs would not have the time to dedicate to such a refined and exact sport even if they were. The argument from here to the FAI has been, in the past, that Schutzhund Sport is illegal out here and on that basis the FAI should not expect or insist on passing the prescribed Schutzhund Level as the "character/temperament" assessment component of their policy. That's been a bit of untruth, I believe, as Schutzhund, especially back then, had not been proclaimed as being illegal here. But it would be easier to be able to by-pass the requirement if Schutzhund Character Assessment requirement if it was indeed made illegal. This is the essence of it and every time it has come up here on DOL, there are many who rise to knock it on its head. I'm even likely to cop a ing for bringing it up here now. But it is the one explanation that makes so much sense. Otherwise, with all the petitioning; explaining; submissions; and so on and so forth, why has it been fraught with so much negativity? And why aren't the Breed Clubs involved, strongly in favour of it?

Hi Star. I don't believe it is purely "ignorance" and a naive assumption that dogs biting on sleeves means dog aggro. Many people who don't understand it are, I admit, easily persuaded that's the case - I mean, in their minds, it is easily plausible. But instead of that naive assumption being quelled, it seems to have been promoted. I have had people coming to me from the very same breed and training groups that we speak of, telling me this is what they know as a result of being told. So I think the 'story' (myth) is driven from someone's and/or some org's agenda and in that respect, I believe that K9Nev is more on the button.

Ditto. And if not recognised by the likes of ANKC and Kennel Councils, then at least accepted for the good that they do and not falsely criticised and outlawed.

Me too. Lots of points not covered as well eg ridiculous fines. Will sit down when I have some time. Hey Tim. I've just spent the past hour working on a response that refutes much of the points Joanne (MP) has attempted to raise by way of answer to public concern over this proposed Bill. There are some points she hasn't addressed at all, although they relate more to fines, so whilst they still need to be answered, at least they aren't at the high end of the very real risk of tragedy that will occur under this Bill (although they might be if it comes to the fact that some people simply won't be able to afford to bail out their dogs from the pound). I must admit that my brain isn't functioning as well as I know it can and I'm struggling to (a) be succinct and (b) to not allow Joanne's seemingly carefully 'steered' course through the obstacles this proposed Bill presents, to put me off track. I've only done mine in a rough draft - one that I've used a different coloured font interspersing her actual letter. I'm happy to show you mine if you'll show me yours so to speak. I need some brain refreshment and some inspiration. Or anybody?

I agree, that IS awesome. You've done so well with him, for his ills. He's such a strong little guy. He certainly soldiers on. Happy 13th Birthday, Ollie dog.

LOL .... cheekiness, just because you know that Jed can't type just yet? Beware - I believe she is already capable of stringing emoticons in a line . Go Jed .