Pippi

I read an interview once with Jay Sisler, awesome trick trainer, where he said exactly the same thing - if his dogs weren't getting something he'd just leave it for a few weeks then when he came back to it they did much better. Of course he had exceptional dogs, but i've always applied it to my training and been surprised at how often it works

Eta- just in case anyone hasn't seen it :D

That is just awesome - especially working 2-3 dogs at once. Thanks for posting, loved it.

Think about what her favourite reward is, what switches her on the most? Food, tug/toys, praise?

The thrill of lighting fires.

Thats given me my laugh for the night......

p.s i have clicker trained my chickens as well

What did you clicker train your chickens to do?

I have started clicker training again and playing some Control Unleashed games. We learnt about the clicker at puppy school but it was a pain to hold the lead, hold the treat and click at the exact right moment! However, I have started to use it again and Asti's attention and ability to respond to me has increased out of sight!

My question is - at what stage can the clicker be phased out for old 'games' and only used for 'new' ones? and how do you do it or will I have to wear a clicker and a bag of treats on me for the rest of Asti's frenchie life?

Clickers are only used during the teaching phase. Once the dog has learnt the behaviour you are teaching, it is reliable and on cue - you no longer need to use the clicker.

The best treats will be whatever your dog considers to be of high value. Doesn't matter what anyone else uses.

Use something your dog loves and will work for. Whatever that is, it will be reinforcing to your dog. Try a few things that others have mentioned and then judge which your dog loves most.

we're in this mess because we've become afraid of what a dog actually is. We like the cutesy side, not the realistic side and hence we're forgetting what a dogs actual needs are. Hence this over breeding, not socialising puppies, thinking puppy preschool is the be all and end all, or then you hit overpriced-open-a-vein dog training schools.

The world would be a better place if people thought twice before correcting their dogs. I have seen dogs ruined by well-meaning people that think a dog needs to be told when they have done something wrong. They tell them the same way they would tell a kid: with a shout and a smack. I have faith in effective corrections, but I have no faith in the average dog owner knowing what one is.

@ Corvus - Absolutely agree with this statement, spot-on. I would prefer to see more people put their effort into actually teaching their dogs to fluency, the behaviours they want, rather than teach something with minimal repetitions believing then that the dog should 'know' the behaviour. Corrections are then, IMO unfairly introduced when this is a training issue, not the dogs fault.

Thanks Pippi! I'll add them in. I can always skip columns if it's not particularly relevant or I don't care for that one behaviour.

I want to get a chicken to train.

I'll lend you one, actually she's not laying - you can have her for free......

I got off my butt (or on it, as it happens) and made an electronic training diary for Erik. It is a spreadsheet with date, behaviour, start criteria, end criteria, cues, and future direction where I can put the aim for next session. Anything else I need?

For each training session I also like to add value of reinforcement, rate of reinforcement, success rate, number of repetitions. I may also add, depending on the behaviour I am teaching, detail on my dogs behaviour such as, dogs enthusiasm or lack of, drive or lack of, etc etc. As Bob Bailey says you can't have too much data when you are serious about training something. The more information I collect, the clearer I can train in the next session. Cues are not important to me until I finish teaching the behaviour to my satisfaction.

BTW I don't always go to this level of detail, depends what I am teaching...

yep, my dog has really reliable drops and was taught this more than 2 ways. because sometimes when i upped the distractions i needed to train her differently.

Really? How come? The only thing I've ever changed when I up the distractions is the reward rate and the criteria. The method stays the same. I find reliability to be a function of reward history more than anything. I don't think I understand this idea of using two ways to train one behaviour. If you need two ways the first one didn't work?

I think I'm going to go crawl back under the rock I have apparently been living under. This thread is doing my head in.

Hey Corvus, I'm already under that rock and its a full house here.....

The article linked explained it well but used a bad example - I don't know anyone who teaches sit by pulling up on the collar!

Standard obedience club method in the days I used to go to obedience clubs and still a common method when I wrote that article. Often combined with a firm push on the rump. Thankfully most have moved on these days.

I don't think its a bad example at all. Instructors may not teach it much these days, but I see it happening at classes every week, where handlers still seem to think its a good idea

Lots of hugs and kisses to you all. You have so many wonderful memories and Buddy is running free of pain and discomfort across the rainbow bridge. So long old man, so glad I got to say my final goodbye on Sat.

Alika

Alchemy

Amber

Amelia

Amy x 2

Anais

Anastacia (Annie)

Angel x 3

Anishinaabe

April

Ariane

Arizona

Asante sana

Ashka

Askari

Astro

Audrey

Aura

Ayla

Baba

Baci

Bailey

Becky

Bella x2

Bit

Blossom

Bonny

Bree

Bridie

Buffy

Cally

Cara

Cassie

Cedar

Chelsea

Chloe x 2

Charlotte

Cinta

CJ

Claire

Claudia

Clover

Cleoparta

Cleo

Coco x2

Daisy x 1

Delilah

Delta

Dexta

Durham

Dyzney

Ebony

Echo

Elizabeth

Ella

Ellie

Ellie

Elly

Emily

Emma

Erin

Fanta

Finta

Glitter

Grace

Griffin

Gypsy x2

Harlow

Hayley x2

Heddy

Heidi

Holly x 5

Honey

Honour

Imogen - Imy

Jay Jay

Jazz

Jezebel

Jodie

Kara

Karmen

Katie

Kayla

Kenzie

Kiesha

Kierah

Kizzey

Krissy

Kuean - (Queen)

Lacey

Layla

Lea (lele)

Lily x 1

Logan

Lottie

Lucy x3

Mable

Marie Claudette

Marlo

Meg

Merrique

Mia

Michou

Millie x2

Minnie

Mischka

Molly x3

Molly Coddle

Mya

Myah

Nala

Narla

Natasha

Ness

Nova

Pearl

Peggie

Perri

Pip

Pippi

Pixie

Popcorn

Porridge

Reba

Rommi

Rosey

Roxy

Ruby x3

Sabrina

Sally

Sascha x 2

Sassy

Satu

Shae

Shandy

Sharnie

Sheba

Shine

Sinta

Skye

Sophie x2

Sparky

Springy

Spook

Stella

Stimpy

Storm

Sue

Tansy

Tara

Tayla

Teegan

Tess

Tia x3

Tilly x3

Tinny (tin tin)

Tori

Trixie

Tully

Vada

Voodoo

Winter

Wilhelmina

Xanthe

YUKI

Ziva

Zoe

Day 1 was fabulous - I really enjoyed it and I finally understand that the method is far more than just a marker.

Would you like to expand on that please......

thats strange...?

i only downlaoded it just the other day?

Are we talking abou the same one? Maybe I'm thinking of another one but I believe they were the same. Heres the link.

http://www.flexitrack.se/english/

Flexi Agility is no longer in business. The only other one I know of is Agility Blues which is very good but not free, although I believe it is cheaper that CRCD.

You could try Kepala Country Resort at Diggers Rest. Their facilities may suit your needs.

http://www.kepalak9countryclub.com.au/

........... I haven't read her book but it's certainly on my list. On the podcast which was a few years old, she mentions a DVD, has she brought this out yet?

Yep The DVD is out and available at CleanRun.

Here is my take on tugging. Its not actually about tugging or the tug, its all about YOU and your relationship with your dog. The tug is just something you use as a conduit between the dog and handler. You actually want the dog to think you are the best thing since sliced bread and that getting to play with you is his/her idea of doggy heaven. You want the dog to learn that playing with tug, sock [insert whatever toy dog loves] is the way to get to play with YOU....

I would spend time building my relationship with my dog and making that, all important, until the dog couldn't give a rats what else is going on around him - cause he just wants to play with you. BTW I'm not saying you dont have a good relationship with your dog - I think it can always be worked on and improved.

Yaaaaaay, Shortstep - I love it......

I did the prey chase with my boy last night he went crazy with it and even had a tug although only for about 3 seconds but he enjoyed himself, until his wicked sister wanted to play, she wanted the toy we were using but she didn't want to share, so now she is kept amused while I'm playing with my boy. I'm sure he will get it sooner or later

If you are trying to get your dog to tug and are just at the teaching phase then do the training with that dog alone with no other distractions..

A dog who is just learning should not have to compete with another dog for the prize.

None of Darcy at all, and I know he was photographing our ADO run. Black dog strikes again.

Have another look at 12-1:30 - Page 1. I see black dog jumping, complete with handler !

OK Eagle Eyes, do you happen to see a chocolate princess anywhere.....cause I don't.

WOW......what a surprise.

;) You may be right but something just doesn't seem quite right to me.

I would have thought a letter on letterhead would be sent rather than an email. ;)

Yep no clicker because it tends to make the dog look at you and the aim is for the dog to look straight down the poles with a fairly low head set.

If you want to totally shape it then I guess you have to just wait until the dog gives you something to reward. If I could see my dog getting frustrated then I would chuck a couple of bits of food through the poles, but I am not that into purely shaping. So I guess it depends on how pure you want to be with it.

Read the whole post Pippi.

Ummm, I think I did read the entire post which is exactly why I made the above comment. I also read carefully the original post in which the OP asks for "a broad summary of the method" i.e. Susan Garretts 2x2 weave pole training method.

Susan's method is based on shaping not luring. Producing the reward only after the desired response from the dog so the dog pairs the value of the reward with the work i.e. going through the poles.

You can lure if you want to, but if someone wants to know about SG's 2x2 method then advising them to "chuck a couple of bits of food through the poles", is totally going against the way Susan trains her method.

Yep no clicker because it tends to make the dog look at you and the aim is for the dog to look straight down the poles with a fairly low head set.

If you want to totally shape it then I guess you have to just wait until the dog gives you something to reward. If I could see my dog getting frustrated then I would chuck a couple of bits of food through the poles, but I am not that into purely shaping. So I guess it depends on how pure you want to be with it.

In which case you are not shaping, you are luring. You would then need to have a clear understanding of the difference betweeen luring and rewarding and when to remove the lure and only reward. You can help your dog along without resorting to luring.

Congratulations Pippi & Jess on your titles All the best for upcoming trials!

The black dog will be out of dog sports for awhile :rolleyes: She hung herself in our gate on the weekend and is very lucky to be alive and have 2 front legs.

Geez I can't believe what you are saying. Hope there is not too much damage done and no permanent injury. Poor baby.

Give her a few extra big hugs..

I love reading this thread and seeing how well everyone is doing. I can add my own now. Flea got her First novice Jumping Pass. We have been so close so many times with just a knocked bar or somthing. now we have done it. Woo Hoo

Congratulations and well done, 1 down 2 to go. Go Flea...