Pugmum

Ok, I do not know about that. If you can remember where you read it, it would be nice, if you could let me know. I am always interested in learning new things!

I see, you could use some cod liver oil or fish oil instead, I believe you are using fish oil already?

/quote]

Hi Dagmar,

this is the article I read that made me put some sesame oil in Maggies food occasionally. Its supposed to also have a good amount of Vit E...

http://www.healingdaily.com/detoxification-diet/flaxseed.htm

Its not specific to dogs so if you dont think its appropriate let me know.

I have not been using the grounds seeds, but am chasing up a coffee grinder so I can start asap.

thanks

Brigitte

Hey pugmum

The avidin is only in the egg whites. You should give your dog soft boiled eggs because it's important to have the yolk raw (or runny) and the whites cooked. Poached is good too as long as you cook the whites only. You can still mix it with yoghurt - just allow it to cool down first

I'm another one who made Budwig for my dogs who had cancer and have ended up eating it myself so I make enough for all of us - i start by blending the cheese and flax oil with a hand blender, then, using a spoon I add honey/molasses, bananas or berries or whatever I have on hand that the dogs can eat and I also like, then I also freshly grind up some flax seeds for the lignans and throw that in as well. I love it but I find the dogs nag for more while I'm trying to eat my share so I rarely get enough of the stuff

Thanks Spottychick

At last a use for the egg cooker ! it has a 'soft' setting Honestly, there is so much you need to get up to speed on quickly when you find out your beloved little princess has cancer. I feel gutted for all the things I have not done correctly - like the eggs

I have read a few people's comments about the honey and fruit into the cottage cheese/flaxseed mixture, why do you add them ? - I thought honey would not be good for Maggie (too much natural sugar? ) Maggie has some apple most mornings, should I also give her some berries (blueberries?) ? would it be okay to get frozen ones and just defrost a few a day ? That should help with the vitmin C wouldn't it.....

Brigitte

Hi Dagmar,

I give Maggie the sesame oil as its supposed to help get the omega 3 and 6 into the right balance - or so I read somewhere. The oils in general are to keep up the high fat side of her diet. I'll stop using the peanut and canola though as you suggest.

How do i get vitamins for Maggie - do I buy human vitamin C and E for her?

thanks

Brigitte

As most of you would know, Maggie has bladder cancer (TCC). The prescribed treatment is 4 rounds of chemo with mitoxantrone (every three weeks) and a piroxicam capsule every day. Piroxicam is a NSAID that can shrink tumors.

So far she has had 3 chemo treatments, her white cell count dropped so severely on the first and thrid time that she ended up in the animal emergency. although I am constantly told that her bowels slowing is not a side efeect of the treatment it happens a week after chemo each and evert ime (starts to slow 3 days after treatment) and she gets very uncomortable (once so bad she could not walk).

The idea of this to start with was to improve her quaility of life - and I'm starting to question if thats what we are giving her. Essentially she spends two weeks not feeling well each time. ALl this would be bearable if she at leat showed some signs that her condition is improving - but it has not. She still strains to pee, and takes ages to get a flow going if she has not been outside for a while, if we are on a walk she manages a reasonable flow quite easily with susequent sqwats, Apparently is the straining that should be an area of improvement.

So the chemo has had no reall effect that I can see. I feel like I am tormenting her for nothing if she has the 4th round of chemo. I also feel like I might be robbing her of something if she does not have it.

If she does have it, it will be the second time they reduce the quantity - therefore only getting a bit over 50% of the recommended dose anyway.

I guess what I asking here is, is there anyone that has gone through chemo with their dog and seen no result from three, but seen something from the fourth ?

If chemo worked for your dog - how soon did you see a result ?

this deciasion is so hard. I'd really like to hear your experiences.

thanks

Brigitte

Thanks Dagmar,

I have started tomake sure I have the ratio just right ;) and I agree that it does not taste half bad.

I looked at the Budwig diet before I bought the flaxseed oil and saw that the results for people were good, but I did not expect that same for the dog as it also recopmmended a vegetarian diet.

Maggie is having chemo so raw food is out for her. she eats twice a day,

Morning : flaxseed/cottage cheese, small amount of apple, pureed brocolli/pumpkin mix (with some kelp) organic chicken, yogurt, Psyilluim husk/unprocessed bran, almond meal, and a sardine twice a week, scrambled egg twice a week. I also try to include a few parsley leaves.

Evening : yogurt, brocolli/pumpkin mix, fish oil (1000mg) organic chicken, ~6 pieces of kibble (Hills CD) cooked liver 3 times a week, Pysillium husk/bran (on week after chemo) and a rotation of other oils( Oilive, peanut, canola, sesame) parsley leaves

As well as that she has chicken jerky, pegetables and buster brownie (liver treats) as treats and to make sure she gets to use her teeth for some good chewing.

Oh - and essiac tea an hour before each meal, i mix it with a bit of broth made from boiled chicken necks.

Theres probably other stuff I have forgotten, but thats about it ;) I hope that i've got all her nutrition covered ?

Apart fromt he chemo she is only on Piroxicam once a day. She has Baytril if her white cell count goes waaaay too low (which it has two of the three times).

so far she has not lost condition - and she still really wants her food, but she is getting a bit pickier with what she wants to eat (used to love carrot ends etc and now just turns away)

we get a lot of tummy trouble from the chemo - not the usual sort, instead of getting the squirts, she blocks up hence the bran etc. SHe is due to have her fourth chemo this Thursday, I'm seriously considering cancelling as the first three have not been successful and it gives her so much tummy trouble. Ervey day I sway on the issue

thanks for you help Dagmar,

Brigitte

Thank you Dagmar!

I have been having so much grief about how to mix such small amounts - everything I saw said use an imersion blender - well, I couldn't find one small enough. So I ahve been usiny my normal 'beater' type mixer with just one beater attached and it seems to work fine. I see thats what you use too so thats a relief

I have been using german cottage cheese (Quark) and it seems to mix in very easily as it is a totally different consistency to the other cottage cheeses. I dont use a low fat version (I think this is about 9%) as I'm trying to keep Maggie on a high fat diet. Is it okay - or do I have to use low fat cottage cheese ?

I also put in a tad more cottage cheese than the 2:1 ratio - would it matter as long as she gets the right amount of flaxseed oil ?

I give it to her once a day, and some to my other pug - they polish the bowels they love the stuff. I have tried it, its not bad Would look awfully strange if someone looked in the window and saw me put a spoon in the dog bowls then eat some myself

Thanks for the info on the eggs too - much appreciated.

Brigitte

Thanks Staffyluv,

I've sort of been winging it. Apparetnty the stomach troubles Maggie has are not considered as a normal side effect of chemo - yet here we go again, same time in the chemo cycle she starts to slow down poop-wise. Gross as it sounds I have been checking what does come out (through the baggie of course ) and its very 'rubbery' in consistency. I hope I can keep it moving through with the psyllium husk she now gets every morning and twice a day during this danger week in her cycle.

Maggie eats natural full fat yogurt every day. Actually, she'll eat just about anything and at the moment wants LOTS of it. Last night I gave her dinner then a couple of hours later another couple of spoons of cooked chicken w/pumpkin as its cooler and she seems so humgry. she had put on half a kilo last trip to chemo so at kleast I know she is getting enough food - she just seems to want more. I dont know if that caused the night we had - I heard her tummy gurgling all night, she went out a couple of times to pee (which is not normal for her) and she seemed restless all night.

Hubby set up a cam at home so I can watch her while I am at work - of course she's sleeping like a baby now.

I mix flaxseed with quark as part of her evening meal - I over do the quark ratio as I cant get too small an amount to mix. She has fish oil every morning and also a rotation of sesame, canola, olive and peanut oils.

Would the inner health plus be okay to use in conjunction with everything else? I'm thihnking this could be a good option for her as she has only just come off weeks of ab's and her good stomach bacteria must be wiped out.

I think the concern withthe carafate would be the potential for constipation given that things are already slowing. I had not thought of mylanta - nor has this been offered, I will certainly check with her vet.

Apart from all that she is a very happy bouncy girl. SHe looks so healthy that if you didn't watch her pee you'd never know she was ill. Her chemo seems to be having no affect. we try one more time in a fortnight then have to decide if to go on. Its hard to know what to do - they cant see her tumours with ultrasound (behind bone) to determine any impact and you dont know if the chemo is at least slowing the cancer growth.

Thank you for your advice, I appreciate it. I hope Ollie is gowing strong.

Brigitte

Feistylady,

My heart aches for everyone on this forum, but you are top of my list today. I am very sorry for your loss.

Brigitte

Hi all,

Todays paranioa that I am not doing all I could be, as well as I could be, is eggs. Should I give my chemo girl raw eggs still ? and, do you give them the yolk and the whites or just the yolk ?, I have always given both in the past....

I usually mix the raw egg with some yogurt, then divvy it up between my two pugs over two mornings, once a week. So, essentially they get 1/4 of an egg each, two days in a row.

is that the right thing to do ?

also, if anyone mixes flaxseed oil with cottage cheese (Budwig diet) how do you mix such small quanities properly?

thanks

Brigitte

Thank you all again.

I have researched her medication and the chemo in general.

This is now the 4th conversation with vets, 2 emergency ones at the specialist centre where she gets the chemo and twice with the specialist treating her. the first time it was strongly suspected that she was going to have abig bout of the squirts - but they did not eventuate.

The chemo works on the cells that multiply the fastest - the cancer,and unfortunately the stomach lining (I think just the stomach - not the bowel) Maggies situation is not normal, and as I have said they are not convinced there is a probelm as she is not straining to go. And yet she is uncomfortable and not pooping as regularlay as she normally does - strangely, at the same time as I began to get concerned last cycle.

She only received 3/4 of the original chemo dose because her white cell count went too low last time. It was thought (hoped) that if the issues were related (which they should not be) it would be different this time.

There is limited remedy available as many things will interfere with the chemo and apprently this is not really considered a problem - yet. Also it seems that only the last part of the freedom for poop cycle is affected which is strange. The pain meds are only available via injection, hence they need to be administered at the vets and that would be only when things get really bad. I'm hoping to avoid that this time.

Maggie is already on fish oil twice a day, and a rotation of Olive, canola, peanut and sesame oil.

I am prepared to walk her as much as I need to, but it was hoped that the metamucil would help my efforts - it was all they could come up with. I'll try the psyllium husks, they cant hurt, and they may help. At least it looks as though I should be able to get her to take them

regards

Brigitte

Thanks you all so much - I feel so ignorant sometimes :D

I will definitely get the psyllium husks on my way home tonight. Maggie is on a highly nutritous diet (cooked meat - mostly organic chicken - veg, fruit, fish oil, sardines, yogurt, quark, plus other oils) with pumpkin and brocolli as her staple veggies. Buit she eats two meals a day and needs food in her tummy to cope witht he other medication (Piroxicam). Only so much can go in before something has to come out ;)

She is generally very regular, just not on these days of the chemo cycle. the vet is surprised as this is not really a side effect, and does not really think there is a problem as she is not trying to poop. but I know her tummy hurts and I am the one walking at midnight with a dog that cant settle, until she can poop. It broke my heart to see how bad it got last time and I am going to do all I can to see it does not happen again.

Thank you again for your advice, its greatly appreciated.

Brigitte

My girl is going through Chemo and has medication for nausea, voniting and diarrhea - but these have not been a problem, instead she seems to get a bit 'backed up' during the 5th to 10th day afterwards. She is not constipated in the normal way - her stools are soft and well formed etc, but they just wont move through the final stage to freedom fast enough during those days and she ends up with a belly ache.

The first time it happened it put her in the animal emergency as she couldn't walk properly from the pain in her tummy. as soon as they gave her pain meds she pooped up a storm and all was good again.

Same time in the chemo cycle this round, I see signs that what is coming out of her is not correlating well to what is going in, and I put in a call to her specialist to see what we can do to prevent a repeat performance.

after much discussion, he thinks Metamucil would be okay - but I read on the packet that it has to be given with heaps of water (cant just sprinkle it on her food) and I cant see how I am going to get her to take it. So I pulled all the bran out of our cereal instead and gave her that with yogurt before her breakfast - no problems getting her to take that.

So I think I need to get her some bran maybe ? Allbran? ;) Does anyone know what is best to use ? or has anyone had any success getting their pooch to take Metamucil ?

thanks

Brigitte

Rotation is good - I can do that Is there anything I need to know about dosage ?

I was just googling avocado...hmmm...not sure now, there seems to be a bit of controversy about it. Maybe I'll have to go with oils and some not low fat cottage cheese. Liverwurst is high in fat too I think.

Gosh, poor Maggie is turning into a little puggy culinary experiement

Brigitte

Mix flaxoil in with the cottage cheese - make sure its thoroughly blended tho because flax on it's own is bad for cancer. I used a hand blender and then added fruit or sardines etc to feed my dog when he had cancer. Also, will your dog eat avacados?

Also, for her digestion - while yoghurt is good, have you looked into kefir? It's like a more potent form of yoghurt. I make it all the time for me and my dogs. YOu can buy the culture in a packet (dried powder in sachets) from alternative health stores tho this isn't as good as the proper grain culture, it still makes a pretty decent and healthy kefir. I bought the powder form to practice on until I felt more confident I wouldn't immediately kill off a live culture.

Anyway - some info here:

Doms kefir site (he sells live culture)

And example of the powdered type

NHO

Thank-you !

Do you know if it is it okay to take flaxoil and fish oil ?

I had never heard of kefir, but will certainly remedy that

I never thought of avocado either - that woud be an easy answer.

thanks again

Brigitte

Thanks Poodlefan.

I have not looked at kibble as it is generally too high in carb,and we are keeping carb to a minimum, and the raw meat is also out (too risky with the chemo) I dont like to give her fat that has been cooked as I thought that would be bad for her ?

She does get 2 x 1000 mg fish oil per day - maybe theres enough in that ?

maybe a bit of oilve oil ? butter even.....?

The specialist handling her for the chemo says that there is not enough study yet to be certain that carbs affect cancer, hence the whole diet thing. I'm of the opinion that Maggie cant wait for more studies so we'll do it anyway as long as its not going to make things worse. I am kinda floundering on how though......

Brigitte

Hi all,

Hope your little fur kids are all doing as well as can be.

As some of you know, Maggie has bladder cancer and is on chemo and piroxicam. With the chemo I dont really have raw food as an option, so I dont know how to get enough fat into her diet - any ideas/suggestions?

She's had some troubles, her white cell count went waaaay low and apparently unrelated also had a badly upset tummy - so bad she could barely walk. We were told told to expect a imminent diarrhea 'explosion', but that did not happen - the pain meds they gave her did produce a number of fully formed stools though.

I had been worried for a few days prior that the amount going in does not not really correlate to the amount coming out and my normally 'regular' little girl was very much not so anymore. Apparently this is not a side effect of the chemo meds (vomiting is - and we've not had that). So i'm looking at her diet, mainly cooked chicken and beef, vegies, apple in the morning, cottage cheese, yogurt, fish oil. Occasional tuna, sardine, egg. I think protein is covered - but not fat.

She's also on 15 ml essiac tea morn and night.

thanks for your ideas - I just cant find anything when I google....

Brigitte

Hi,

My little pug had her first Chemo last week Thursday - she is being treated with a combination of the chemo and piroxicam.

I know there are other types of chemo ie tablet form, but has anyone else had the IV type for their dog ?

Sorry for this barrage of questions, but I just cant find the answers when I google.

She was not unwell afterward, just a bit out of sorts the next day. Are the first days after the chemo likely to be the worst ?

We have to have a complete blood count done 7 and 14 days after the chemo so they can see the impact on the white cells - I've looked this up but just cant find out if the chemo knocks the cell division straight away and then it recovers and that is what they are looking for - or if it is a gradual process of slowing the division of cells. I'm interested as I want to know when she is at her lowest point immune wise.

Also, the information I was given stated that I should double bag when I clean up after her (on a walk etc), but it also says that the chemicals are only in her system for about 3 days - that they are eliminated in the urine and faeces (hence the double bagging) Do I have to double bag for more than a week if the chemicals are gone in just a few days ? :D

I've read a lot about Piroxicam and I wonder how fast you would see any improvement if it was going to have a positive impact ?

And jut one more - I have anti nausea medication for her, is she likely to need it for the full three weeks between chemo's or just a few days ?

Thanks for your help

Brigitte

Am wondering how Maggie is coming along Pugsmum?

Michelle

Hi Michelle, Thanks for thinking of Maggie !

Maggie had her first chemo last Thursday. I didn't know what to expect and was pleasantly surprised to pick her up afterward and she was full of beans. She was a bit flat the next day, but overall is doing very well. Certainly has no loss of appetite

Hubby is getting used to going to the fridge and knowing that all the good stuff he sees, yogurt, cottage cheese, fresh cooked chicken, steamed carrot and broccoli - is not for him. I hear him grumbling but know he is smiling while he does....

I still dont really know what to expect from here on in - Are the first days the ones she is most likely to feel unwell, or could that increase over the next week ? if ithe chemo works, how long before we should see a difference?

Also, does anyone know if subsequent chemos affect the differently? I thought they might as surely they start each one somewhat depleted from the last round of chemo ?

Brigitte

We had this done a while ago and the cost was ~$1000 per knee. this was through our regular vet and was for a 9 kg pug. We had the option of doing them together or one at time, but opted to have them done separately. We did this because if she got an infection it would most likely affect both and leave her unable to walk while it cleared. Its hard enough when they cant use one back leg at a time.

We had no bandages and did not need to use a cone as she never tried to nibble her stiches. The hardest thing was having to keep her quiet for 6 weeks. She was ready to bound around the house the next day !

Every time I see a footballer talk about a knee reconstruction and how long their recovery will be I think they should have it done at the local vet, they'd be chasing a ball the next day

I am in Adelaide and my litle pug is having treatment for bladder cancer (her first chemo is today) I was told that radiation therapy is not available here, but I could be referred interstate if I wanted it for Maggie. Checking the radiation results for bladder cancer I declined as it is not as successful as a combo of chemo and piroxicam.

Michelle - can you get a referral to the Adelaide Specialist and Referral Centre - Dr David Davies ? He is their canine specialist, and very good. If anything can be done I'm sure he's the one for you. Any vet should be able to refer you. The centre is at 102 Magill Road, Norwood. Ph 8132 0533. with parking on the premises.

I didn't realise previoulsy that you had not been given specialist advice.

Was the prognosis for Matey today. I haven't been offered chemo etc as he is 14. At the moment like pugmum said, he still appears healthy and pain free and is eating well.

I am seeking alternate therapy knowing this is no cure but may give us a little extra time, putting off the inviteable I guess. The tumour is on the bottom of his paw so I will keep cleaning and dressing daily as I have been. I have him on meat and veg only and fish raw x 2 weekly. Still giving him a raw egg twice weekly and 2 fish oil caps and Garlic daily

Any other advice would be appreciated.

Michelle

Hi Michelle,

Sorry to hear about Matey - its the pits

I see you are in SA too - I'm struggling to find anything but conventional vets here. I heard Marni's Herbal had a pet specialist and I went there the other day. I didn't see the person I went to see, but I was seriously disapointed with the attitide and service I got (or didn't get to be more precise). So, I'm winging it. I have Maggie on Essiac tea twice a day. Its apparently meant to help with tumours, but basically detoxes so that the body can put more into repairing itself.

As you'd be aware, the internet can be a great source of information - but theres no guarantee that anything you read is correct. The reason i am going with the essiac is because my sister in laws dog was diagnosed with cancer on her tonsils that spread and was apparetnly untreatable. She used essiac and the dog lived for 5 more years. This was a while ago - most likely before they were treating any dogs for cancer here.

At worst the essiac should make Maggie feel well and help keep her healthy. See what you think, or maybe give the correct person at Marni's a visit and see if they can recommend some supplements, it was there that they recommended essiac for my SIL years ago.

best wishes,

Brigitte (pugmum)

Thank you both for your replies. Theres a lot to get your head around with all this and I appreciate your advice.

We have decided to try the Chemo and see how it goes. The advice is that we should be able to tell by the second treatment if there is any benefit. If it makes her feel unwell then we wont persue it further as I dont want her last days to be that way.

We are off to have blood and urnine tests tomorrow to check that all is well enough to go ahead with the treatment. I think she will be going on piroxicam and another drug combined. She will be treated one day every three weeks by IV, and just have the anti inflammatories in between as far as I know - I'll write it all down tomorrow if I dont fall apart in there again.

I have always cooked for Maggie (and Otis my other pug) so at least her meals wont have to change much - just lose the pasta and raw bones.

Mag had a seizure in December (first one, so far the only one) and I checked that there were no preservatives in her food from there on anyway - I found that I only had to cut out the Schmacko's and treats of that nature as most of her food and treats seemed clear of it already.

Apart from the too often urinating small amounts, its hard to believe she is life threateningly ill - she still bounds off tot he kitchen for a treat and wuffs her way to the front fence to tell off the cars....

Hi,

My 9 yo pug Maggie, has just been diagnosed with TCC. the cancer is near and in the urethra and is inoperable. Apparently chemo will help make her more comfortable and possibly buy her some time. The chemo will be by IV one day every 3 weeks.

As all of you in here would know, its hard to think straight when your heart is breaking.

Has anyone else had any expereince with this - what questions should I be asking the vet, and is there anything I could be doing ?

I started her on essiac tea today...just to be doing something......

thanks

Brigitte

Yesterday Maggie had an endoscopy. They found Polypoid thickening of the urethra and bladder neck. They took biopsies and we get the results mid next week. Seems that the foregone conclusion is that it is almost certainly bladder cancer and inoperable.

Apparently this area was not easy to see in the previous ultrasound as it is hidden/protected by bones in the area.

Will have to move my next questions to the pallative care section.

thanks for all your previous suggestions.

One of my dogs has had the operation on both knees - not at the same time.

We treated with anti inflammatoreis for as long as possible (Maggie was about 4yo at this time). she was having trouble every time she got up, could not walk on any soft surfaces - sand, doona etc and sometimes her leg was at a 90 degree angle from her body when she got up. she was miserable. So surgery on the worst knee was done without any hesitation.

The other deteriorated quickly over the next year and before it got as bad as the first one, we had it operated too.

That said, I have friends with dogs that have luxating platellas that have never progressed to the stage Maggies did and they manage with anti inflammatories when needed (one is on a small dose of a powdered one daily). They alos give glucosamine joint formua.

Definitely see how it goes - as with Maggie, there may be some things you need to avoid ( soft beaches, sand etc).

You cant go wrong with glucosamine - it wont cure it, but will make it more comfortable.