Sheridan

Alpha Bet - I will correct you on one thing. Dogs Vic did argue a number of points but were ignored by the department. Up to the point of the release of this Bill they were in consultation about the AO. They were clearly told this Bill did not concern them. As to the rest well there's not much argument there. However an organisation such as DV are only as strong as their members. Where was everyone at the AGMs for example. Personally though I am focussing on the fight we have now and looking to the future - thinking about how I can volunteer my services.

Dogs Vic response has been atrocious. The only reason the members have got as far as they have is because of themselves. As soon as the topic came up months ago Dogs Vic should have been campaigning. Even now they're not keeping all members informed.

It's not low socioeconomics if the incident at my dog training is anything to go by. Person opens up the back of her expensive 4WD. Dog jumps out and races up to mine. I step out in from of Bunny, put my foot out to prevent the dog getting any closer and shout 'No!' at it. Woman says all offended, 'Excuse me! My dog is okay.'

Stupidly clueless knows no economic status.

I'd be astonished to see significant political support for the closure of the racehorse industry, or the pet industry. Greyhounds are small fry next to both.

you only have to read the subject below this one. Vic dog breeders are in serious trouble if this gets through.

Jaala Pulford once said to me on social media she didn't want to see the end of dog breeding.

If she was telling the truth then she should have discussed the strategies with the peopel this law will affect .She stated publicly the current amendments would only affect 90 people in Victoria when in fact they will affect 10s of thousands.

Funnily enough she seems to be ignoring certain posts now.

I'd be astonished to see significant political support for the closure of the racehorse industry, or the pet industry. Greyhounds are small fry next to both.

you only have to read the subject below this one. Vic dog breeders are in serious trouble if this gets through.

Jaala Pulford once said to me on social media she didn't want to see the end of dog breeding.

Id like to see those who don't support the ban going to watch live baiting in action then sticking their hands up to take one of the 70% of dogs who don't make it . Because I'm damn sure the trainers who love them so much havnt got any sitting on their lounge .

You seem to think anyone who doesn't want to see a ban, without even knowing the reason, supports live baiting.

I'm looking at getting a third Sheltie. Currently 2 atm. One is American - brought him with me from the states when I moved back to Aus, the other is English, bought from a breeder in QLD. Very different dogs, both gorgeous. I'm looking to show the new pup we will get and just curious on peoples opinions. To be honest I do like the look of the American shelties more, but i do understand that they have collie in their background unlike the English type.

Do one type do better in the show ring or are they judged equally? I have been chatting to breeders and it seems like there are people using American sires more and more.

Thanks

Good luck in finding an English Shetland Sheepdog. There's no such thing.

I do. They don't drink much at night.

a little boy pointed my german shepherd to his mum saying: "look, a horse!"

I once got 'look a sheep'.

Kerry blues generally get mistaken for schnauzers, though I was at the vet recently with Miss Bunny and someone said, 'You don't see very many kerry blues around.' I said, 'No, and thank you.'

Wheatens sometimes get something-oodle but generally most people just ask what breed they are. I say 'Irish wheaten terrier' and add 'Irish farm dog' (also for kerry blues) because even if people don't know what breed they are they know what a farm dog does.

Hi Sheridan

Thanks re the offer to help out.

I just noticed my profile says I am from Queensland though, where you are listed.

I just fixed it. I am actually from Victoria not Queensland.

Don't know when that changed

Qld is the default setting.

I'll have a chat to some of the Vic wheaten folks. :)

What about Soft Coated Wheatens? What are they like?

Hi there, before I tell you about wheatens from my point of view, what interests you about them?

Hi Sheridan :)

From what I have gleamed so far, the SCWT's seem to tick many of the boxes for us for a future possible breed.

They seem to have a good all round temperament if properly socialized growing up. Be very people orientated. Can live inside with us, enjoy a cuddle on the couch, but still enjoy daily walks, car trips, trips to the lake for a swim or play, holidays trips away with the family, suitable for some obedience trialing and endurance - which we have enjoyed with our previous dogs.

The general public would not be put off by the appearance of a SCWT. Having owned Staffords and Rottweilers for many years, we are tired many peoples apprehension even before they met our nice natured dogs.

They are a good medium size for us, have a minimal shed coat (one I could learn to maintain and clip)

All that sounds good. Now, here's a caveat because a lot of people are interested in wheatens because they're low shedding. Wheatens require daily brushing and combing out to the skin. Not clipping and maintenance but actual brushing and combing. Your best friends when you have a wheaten are a slicker and a fine-toothed comb. There is a period I call the 'Oh, FFS, I just combed out that bit' and it goes on for months. I posted on FB that my Roo had reached the 'orange fuzzies' and received much sympathy from fellow wheaten folk because all of us have wept during this time and all the times afterwards. If not brushed and combed out they mat and mat badly. Clipping doesn't do it. I noticed an earlier post about you preferring a dog that's easy to maintain. That is not wheatens. Not remotely.

But if you're not put off by weeping and daily grooming let's talk some more, like about the digging (do you like your garden? Too bad!), the thievery (all wheatens are thieves), the psycho dog running around (no one knows why they do this but all of them do it), how they won't do anything they don't think is their idea (stubborn), the couch cuddles (top marks), the kisses (gold star), and how they're the best breed ever! Aside from kerry blues, of course (but don't go there).

Hi Sheridan

Thanks for the great feedback on the Wheatens, its appreciated

What you have told me doesn't totally put me off them so to speak. I will however need to investigate the grooming side of them alot more.

We are planning to go to some shows soon to try and meet up with some breeders and their dogs and chat face to face so we can get some first hand experience with the breeds we have short listed. :)

Whereabouts are you? I can let you know who to speak to.

What about Soft Coated Wheatens? What are they like?

Hi there, before I tell you about wheatens from my point of view, what interests you about them?

Hi Sheridan :)

From what I have gleamed so far, the SCWT's seem to tick many of the boxes for us for a future possible breed.

They seem to have a good all round temperament if properly socialized growing up. Be very people orientated. Can live inside with us, enjoy a cuddle on the couch, but still enjoy daily walks, car trips, trips to the lake for a swim or play, holidays trips away with the family, suitable for some obedience trialing and endurance - which we have enjoyed with our previous dogs.

The general public would not be put off by the appearance of a SCWT. Having owned Staffords and Rottweilers for many years, we are tired many peoples apprehension even before they met our nice natured dogs.

They are a good medium size for us, have a minimal shed coat (one I could learn to maintain and clip)

All that sounds good. Now, here's a caveat because a lot of people are interested in wheatens because they're low shedding. Wheatens require daily brushing and combing out to the skin. Not clipping and maintenance but actual brushing and combing. Your best friends when you have a wheaten are a slicker and a fine-toothed comb. There is a period I call the 'Oh, FFS, I just combed out that bit' and it goes on for months. I posted on FB that my Roo had reached the 'orange fuzzies' and received much sympathy from fellow wheaten folk because all of us have wept during this time and all the times afterwards. If not brushed and combed out they mat and mat badly. Clipping doesn't do it. I noticed an earlier post about you preferring a dog that's easy to maintain. That is not wheatens. Not remotely.

But if you're not put off by weeping and daily grooming let's talk some more, like about the digging (do you like your garden? Too bad!), the thievery (all wheatens are thieves), the psycho dog running around (no one knows why they do this but all of them do it), how they won't do anything they don't think is their idea (stubborn), the couch cuddles (top marks), the kisses (gold star), and how they're the best breed ever! Aside from kerry blues, of course (but don't go there).

If the legislation goes country wide.... then we have a situation that any larger breeder (ANYONE with more than 10 fertile dogs) will have to have approval with their local council and meet the requirements for a Domestic Animal Business. No pet shops means that we reduce the spur of the moment buyers, especially those wanting pups for xmas or valentines day.... even people who want to go online to seek a pup will have to spend a bit more time and effort to source a pup.

We will also be providing the councils with the opportunity to crack down on the BYB's as if they have more than 3 entire dogs they will be required to have their Permit and on illegal puppy farms.

In truth any breeder who houses more than 10 fertile animals on their property is in fact then operating as a business. Even show people with more than 10 dogs are spending their entire spare time showing and breeding... So it is a business... even if non profit making... so they need to show they are operating in a professional manner. They would then be required to show that they have correct facilities to house the dogs and contain within their property and not be an annoyance to their neighbours.

For the vast majority of breeders and show enthusiasts (ANKC members), they would have less than the 10 dogs and hence not affected by the rules.

Don't have any problem with ensuring that people keep their dogs in an acceptable manner....

By the way I know exactly what is involved as I have a Domestic Animal Business registration for my own business for Boarding and running Training Classes. I could also apply for one as a Breeder except that I only house 4-6 entire dogs/bitches so I don't need one.

I'm not sure why you think that people sourcing puppies online will have to think more about it. The number of FB pet sales pages and puppyfarm websites alone that are not and will not ever be policed means they don't have to think about it other than a quick Google and click to buy.

What about Soft Coated Wheatens? What are they like?

Hi there, before I tell you about wheatens from my point of view, what interests you about them?

I've heard it's two flights.

So now we ban pet ownership because some people abuse their pets? That's where that logic takes you.

Hardly. People are allowed to do a lot of things even when a minority abuse that right or privilege and cause harm to others. Smoke, own guns and knives, drive cars, drink alcohol, operate heavy machinery, parachute, gamble, have children, etc. etc. We have laws so that people can have freedom while not endangering or harming others. When a group is identified as having broken the law repeatedly and it is having a serious impact on others, they may be targeted with additional legislation. Typically it seems to be a knee jerk reaction that victimises a lot of people that weren't breaking the law, and it's questionable if it does any good. I imagine it depends. However, I doubt the greyhound industry is a victim of such targeting. It's a convenient excuse, and one that's only available because the greyhound industry is far from squeaky clean in the first place.

It's a slippery slope.

No it's not. It's a logical fallacy. Unless you can provide a valid inductive argument or a mechanism by which the banning of greyhound racing on apparently welfare grounds will probably lead to the banning of pet ownership on welfare grounds, then it is a fallacious slippery slope.

You mean the same AR activists who have just got greyhound racing banned in NSW? Those ones?

Troll for a fight elsewhere, Sheridan, I'm really not interested.

I'm not trolling at all. I don't care enough to do so but your severe overreaction to a simple observation suggests that you need to step away.

I haven't been able to get a Dremel yet. That adventure is yet to come.

Maddy, I realise that you have had a bad time in greyhounds but you are really now coming across as vindictive - not just because of your spiteful response to me above - but your response to anyone who remotely disagrees with you. I noted it quite a few pages ago. You've won, you know. No more greyhounds in NSW. #calmdown

.... I wondered why you got angry and then I just re read my post ... it wasn't even targeted at you.

So I apologise for this misunderstanding.

Both AJP and Greens have a lot of eccentric millionaires who are old spinsters with addled brains that are easily brainwashed into donating their money to these fringe parties to allow them to get into Govt.

....You basically popped up on Dol when this thread appeared and presumably couldn't be bothered to read older threads on the racing issue to get any sort of idea about me or how I feel about racing before you rushed into idiotic assumptions and imply that I am nutty and have no decency. I'm not an anti, I'm not a nutter and I'm not some AR vegan kook. It's people like you, however, who make me even more sure that banning the sport was probably the right thing to do.

Couldn't agree with you more Maddy.

Mystify you can't leap onto a forum you have not previously joined, lash out and vent your anger, then sort of apologise the first time you are called out on it, and simply delete it when you insult people again. Well, you can I suppose, your choice, but it has done your arguments no good.

As opposed to what generally happens which is DOLers jumping all over the newbies? The only difference I'm seeing is that mystify hasn't backed down.

Well Ive sat up and listened to the debate on the banning of greyhounds tonight and needless to say this is now a reality.

However, listening to this debate made me understand that animal welfare only played a secondary role in what has just happened.

Statements were made that the industry is shrinking and will not remain viable. The revenue they bring in via gambling doesn't cover what they have to pay out anymore and if they were to go with the recommendations they are saying it will cost 53 million for upgrades of tracks etc ,that there will be less breeding therefore less racing and even less revenue than is currently coming in due to the contraction of the industry without the bans. Fact is they get more money with less pain from casinos etc and they can use the grounds as another method of bringing in revenue.

Animal rights and animal welfare just had good timing and they never stood a chance.

The moral is in any activity to do with dogs make sure it doesn't cost the government and promote how much it benefits them.

Labor is saying they will start it up again if they win the next election but by then the tracks will be gone and the money situation will still be the same - no chance in my opinion of it being reversed.

Still not over yet as the inside info is that the court case is looking very positive with a 99.9% chance of success, but it needs to go to High court to get the ban overturned. Let's just hope Baird hasn't got all the judges in his pocket as well, after paying for a holiday trip last weekend for 60 of his MPs to attend so they could be bribed easily not to oppose him last night. Must be so nice to be able to throw taxpayers money around for himself.

I haven't given up and neither has many people yet. We must not allow the Greens to have more than a foothold in government, as they will just destroy Australia eventually with a ban on everything. Animal Justice Party is just as corrupt as the Greens, both bribed Premier Baird to allow them to have a place in Government. Both AJP and Greens have a lot of eccentric millionaires who are old spinsters with addled brains that are easily brainwashed into donating their money to these fringe parties to allow them to get into Govt.

If you get the chance listen to the speech Troy Grant gave as he went through the figures to show that its no longer a viable industry - costing them more than they make and huge amounts to keep it going - this is the case world wide - its about the money pure and simple. Animal rights will crow about it being their victory but from what I heard last night I believe that if they let the industry die slowly it will cost them heaps and heaps of money for years yet as it contracts and this is really about the government cutting their loses now and taking what they will loose from the casinos and use of the land. They need to answer why - if live baiting has been illegal and everyone knew about happening that they and the RSPCA were not doing THEIR job and policing the laws which came in as a criminal matter in 1953 rather than avoiding it when it suited them financially and politically.

The animal justice party is led by the ex president of animal liberation NSW so what did anyone expect when they gave them a foot in?

I don't know why the hysteria over the Greens. The Animal Justice mob preferenced right wing parties not the left.

So, there's been posts about this dog on FB and it doesn't seem to be as clear cut as the RSPCA has made out. I am told there are questions being asked in the WA parliament about this dog. Apparently the RSPCA has been ordered by the courts and the relevant Minister to return the dog to her owner and have not only refused to do so, but have sent the dog out of the state. I don't know the circumstances behind the order to the return the dog.

I think anyone who involves someone's family in their Agenda has crossed a line. You are right, Steve, you don't have to have links to bikies to be scary - that wasn't my point, I was merely passing on the news.

This will be my last comment in a thread which has become downright worrying. I can't believe anyone who owns rescue greyhounds or knows what has gone on can still believe that the industry is worth saving and greyhounds still need to race to make money for people - but that's my opinion, and you are certainly entitled to yours.

I have no stake in this one way or another but I am trying to see both sides and Im very uncomfortable about the way this has moved through the parliamentary process so far.

Even if you hate the greyhound industry and believe everything in the report is the truth (including that lure coursing participants might live bait because their dogs chase plastic bags), how this has been handled is worrying.

If by nutty you mean her religion views.....she's a Christian, nothing wrong with it.

Scott Morrison because he's her local MP, and GBOTA has been emailing every trainer in NSW (with a computer) advising trainers and breeders to send letters to their local MP as the MPs (particularly the lovely Sonia Hornery who supports us) will be going to debate on the petition in lower house in 2 weeks. Hopefully the more info we send to MPs who support the ban, the more we may make them think the ban is unfair and this will get more of them to go against the ban decision. At the moment it's 17 against 12 (I think roughly) so we need to sway more MPs

Well, I know how that's going to go. She'll get a letter thanking her then she'll get told it's a state matter.

Two men arrested in Molong over the weekend and charged with making death threats to Troy Grant, his family and a staff member over the banning of greyhound racing. They've been given strict conditional bail. One apparently has links to a bikie gang.

Obviously they are not among the "good men" of the greyhound industry?

The death threats I got came from Animal rights people who apparently had links to Oscars Law

Greyhound people don't have a monopoly on nutterism and you don't have to have links to bikies to be scary.

Were they charged?