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[Steve]

Ive been watching pretty closely what kind of studies are being conducted by PHD students in Australia and I have to ask if perhaps they are a bit out of touch and whther we need to work with them more so they can conduct studies we are more interested in and which will have the potential to make a real difference.

Whats the go - do we need to pay for them , do we need to approach them - what?

[Jacquiboss&scoop]

Hi Steve

in the sciences it is becoming more and more a money driven rather than pure research . I would be contacting the Uni teaching staff as an initial contact , the Uni I have had contact with likes for requested subjects to be sponsored in some way with a trade of to the uni or facalty being one way to gain this , some will suggest to students who are stuck for starting points to look into an area as well if the area is requested

Is all walking and talking on this one

[Are You Serious Jo]

Generally you need to offer a grant for a research project distribute among all unis, then open it for students/researchers to compete by writing a proposal. You then judge who is best to run the project based on their proposal and their academic CV.

Or employ me

[Jacquiboss&scoop]

LOL yup , but sometimes if you tickle someones interest the whole process can become so much smoother

[Aidan]

whther we need to work with them more so they can conduct studies we are more interested in and which will have the potential to make a real difference.

What sort of study were you thinking of? Very helpful if it can be linked to gaps or questions raised by previous research.

[Steve]

Generally you need to offer a grant for a research project distribute among all unis, then open it for students/researchers to compete by writing a proposal. You then judge who is best to run the project based on their proposal and their academic CV.

Or employ me

You had better give me a ring then.0269276707

[Kitt]

Sometimes research studies could be influenced by how easily the PhD researcher thinks they can get participants. Someone might have a fantastic idea for awesome PhD research that would really benefit the field, but they know that they will have a very difficult time getting participants.

For example, researching a certain issue might really require a longitudinal study, where the person can meet with participants several times over several years. It might be more difficult to recruit participants for this type of research then for research that involves one questionnaire and no further contact.

I'm just typing as I'm thinking, and I'm not in the dog research field so maybe this is already done... maybe universities need to be aware that there are people who are willing to be involved in certain types of research? I know that sounds very broad and vague, but hopefully you know what I mean. Eg, groups involved in dog breeding or showing etc might let universities know that they have members willing to be involved in long-term research.

[Are You Serious Jo]

I'll call later, phone is being used.

I can at least advise on the process for experimental, surveys and theoretical research. All very different approaches and makes a big difference on funding offered and who can do the research.

[Steve]

Sometimes research studies could be influenced by how easily the PhD researcher thinks they can get participants. Someone might have a fantastic idea for awesome PhD research that would really benefit the field, but they know that they will have a very difficult time getting participants.

For example, researching a certain issue might really require a longitudinal study, where the person can meet with participants several times over several years. It might be more difficult to recruit participants for this type of research then for research that involves one questionnaire and no further contact.

I'm just typing as I'm thinking, and I'm not in the dog research field so maybe this is already done... maybe universities need to be aware that there are people who are willing to be involved in certain types of research? I know that sounds very broad and vague, but hopefully you know what I mean. Eg, groups involved in dog breeding or showing etc might let universities know that they have members willing to be involved in long-term research.

We can get them the participants if its a worthwhile study. But there seems to be a lot of time and a lot of energy and resources being spent on 'mickey mouse " studies that aren't going to make any difference to anyone or any dog. It just seem to me that with so many issues begging for real studies and research which would make a difference its about time we worked together.

[Are You Serious Jo]

Can you send me a list of what you think are research priorities and I'll think about them before calling.

[deerhound owner]

Yes as a currently unemployed canine research scientist I can tell you that without funding research doesn't happen and unfortunatley getting funding to do with dogs is not easy. To get funding on exactly what you want, you need to put a proposal in to the uni's and state how much you are willing to contribute, if you want to be sure the project is done you need to commit the whole lot like the guide dog people do.

For a ball park:

A PhD you are looking at $22 000 for salary plus say $5-10 000 project costs a year for 3 years

A postdoc researcher you are looking at $75-80 000 salary a year plus project costs and can be for 1 to 3 years ish.

For a staff of a university (lecturer, assoc prof etc. to do it, you may not have to pay a salary (not 100% sure here) but you would need to cover all project costs AND make sure they have time to do it AND make sure it's something they are interested in.

indusrty supported projects can get more of a look in with the big funders (ARC, NHMRC) which usually require the "industry" to commit half and then they match it. it's one way to keep costs down but you are then subject to the will of the grant reviews and there are no guarentees.

The other option is master or honours projects conducted in the vet faculty. They usually don't come with a scholarship/salery but would need running costs of say $5-10 000 for one year. A bit of money for the researcher ($5-10 000) is always appreciated as well. You would also have to find an academic to support it as the student would need an in house supervisor.

Steve, could you give some examples of research you would like to see undertaken. I personally don't think my PhD was out of touch or will not make a difference but maybe that's just me

[deerhound owner]

Can you send me a list of what you think are research priorities and I'll think about them before calling.

snap

[Are You Serious Jo]

The trouble with honours students is they are not all created equal, some are great, some should be working at McDonalds instead. Plus you also have a very limited time frame for data collection, so you can only do a brief project. The study that I wanted to do on probabilities of genetic disorders occurring between health tested and non-health tested dogs was going to be done on my own time, and I'd like to do that once I get back on track.

[deerhound owner]

The trouble with honours students is they are not all created equal, some are great, some should be working at McDonalds instead. Plus you also have a very limited time frame for data collection, so you can only do a brief project. The study that I wanted to do on probabilities of genetic disorders occurring between health tested and non-health tested dogs was going to be done on my own time, and I'd like to do that once I get back on track.

Very true. I can't speak for other courses but I know that for the Animal and Veterinary Bioscience course at USYD they have too many students for honours projects so only let students who get above a certain mark do them. It's no guarentee but at least you less likely to get a no brainer Companion animal studies are also very popular with the students so you may get to pick and choose a bit.

I am also looking at doing a few studies that interest me in my own time. It seems to be the only way as I'm pretty sure the funding bodies are not interested in the COI of deerhounds what effect is has had on their health. Hopefully I can get the guy who did this in Wolfhounds to help me and hope even more we get similar results

Link to the IW study for anyone thats interested

linky

Edited November 26, 2010 by deerhound owner

[Are You Serious Jo]

I've supervised them and well, less said about some the better But you are right in that some of the most important questions don't attract funding, thanks to government cutbacks pure research is lost. I'm happy to advise on projects though, methodology is my strong point so don't mind helping with that.

[corvus]

Hmmm. I think it will pay to be very careful. What would suck is if you forked out for a research project, but the findings weren't widely accepted because the author obviously had an agenda to push. I think it would be wise to get some advice from academics outside the field. They could maybe give you some hints for spotting someone with biases. Everyone has biases, but some people know it and can rise above it and others don't seem to care if the world knows they are biased, or maybe they don't know themselves. I think biased writing is very damaging to the acceptance of scientific studies and is rife in studies on contentious issues, where it is obviously going to be the MOST damaging. I really do wonder sometimes if people realise that what they are saying sounds anything but impartial. It casts doubt on the findings and doubt on the authors. If you have any contentious findings you will want a spotless reputation and utterly defensible methodology and impartiality to a fault, but you'll be in the shit anyway. You just won't drown in it. Probably.

Anyway, good research is usually cited a lot. Where I came from, anyway, the scientific community recognises researchers that are thorough, impartial, and identify the shortcomings of their own work. I had help from some amazing researchers when I was in undergrad, and it wasn't until I travelled overseas that I realised how widely they were respected for their good work and dependable contributions. Even in my relatively short experiences with the dog behaviour literature, I find there are names I trust and names I don't trust. Yet.

Incidentally, it might be worth looking into folks that have just finished their PhDs. I bet most of them would be up for a research job and just don't know you're looking.

[corvus]

Very true. I can't speak for other courses but I know that for the Animal and Veterinary Bioscience course at USYD they have too many students for honours projects so only let students who get above a certain mark do them.

Is that the rotation honours or the science one that goes for a year? I'm still trying to get my head around how vet science courses work. I am not sure how anyone can do an honours project in 8 weeks. I did mini projects in undergrad that went longer than that.

We had an above credit average cut-off, but in reality the supervisors were the limited resource. Most supervisors opted for the distinction average or above students. Some were known for not even considering supervising you unless you were at the top of the cohort.

[Are You Serious Jo]

Hmmm. I think it will pay to be very careful. What would suck is if you forked out for a research project, but the findings weren't widely accepted because the author obviously had an agenda to push. I think it would be wise to get some advice from academics outside the field. They could maybe give you some hints for spotting someone with biases. Everyone has biases, but some people know it and can rise above it and others don't seem to care if the world knows they are biased, or maybe they don't know themselves. I think biased writing is very damaging to the acceptance of scientific studies and is rife in studies on contentious issues, where it is obviously going to be the MOST damaging. I really do wonder sometimes if people realise that what they are saying sounds anything but impartial. It casts doubt on the findings and doubt on the authors. If you have any contentious findings you will want a spotless reputation and utterly defensible methodology and impartiality to a fault, but you'll be in the shit anyway. You just won't drown in it. Probably.

Weren't you the same person that said that biases weren't an issue because of transparency and had a go at me for suggesting a certain person I mentioned had one

Yes, it is an issue with some but if you are hinting I might not be able to be impartial then you'd be the one looking silly. My biggest gripe is people/researchers who make claims based on no evidence. I don't care what the outcome is, as long as it is derived from rigorous methodology and careful data collection. My publication record backs me up and a project I did on the side at the same time as my own honours project was given an international award for best paper of the year in a high impact journal. So I'm pretty confident I don't let bias affect my work

But I agree, be careful of who you trust, as some do have an agenda to push.

[corvus]

Yes, it is an issue with some but if you are hinting I might not be able to be impartial then you'd be the one looking silly.

Well, no, I wasn't hinting it. Not everything is about you, as it happens. But now that you mention it, you did attempt to sabotage my project before you even knew what I was planning to do. Folks are encouraged to make their own decisions on what looks silly or impartial when it comes to it. Just hope it's an impartial and informed decision.

And I think that's the first time you've ever intentionally agreed with me and you still have to be nasty about it.

[aussielover]

Very true. I can't speak for other courses but I know that for the Animal and Veterinary Bioscience course at USYD they have too many students for honours projects so only let students who get above a certain mark do them.

Is that the rotation honours or the science one that goes for a year? I'm still trying to get my head around how vet science courses work. I am not sure how anyone can do an honours project in 8 weeks. I did mini projects in undergrad that went longer than that.

We had an above credit average cut-off, but in reality the supervisors were the limited resource. Most supervisors opted for the distinction average or above students. Some were known for not even considering supervising you unless you were at the top of the cohort.

Vet science honors are between 2-4 months long. To do vet honours you need a gpa of over 75, which is not easy in the vet course. The time is also not really long enough to collect a lot of meaningful data. There is also the option of a research year between 3rd and 4th year which I have just finished. At Sydney uni any canine behavior or welfare projects would have to go thru Mcgreevy who is not popular with a lot of ppl on here and in the dog world.

Lots of people are interested in canine welfare and behavior research, I know I am, however the funding for these projects is sorely lacking.