I Did A Really Silly Thing.....

[shyfig]

One of my cats hasn't like Jed since we bought him home. If ever Jed walks past him he likes to reach out and claw him. This has resulted in some animosity between them both. Jed has not however attacked Pudicus until he really lost his cool today.

Pudicus was sitting on the kitchen chair which was pulled out from the table as Jed, then I walked past. Pudicus just had to reach out and claw Jed on the back. Well Jed turned around and barked, growled and snapped at Pudicus.

In the split second that it happened I reached down and put my hand between Jed's face and the cat...intending to push the cat to one side and grab Jed by the collar with my other hand. Well what a stupid thing to do. Jed was obviously about to bite my cat and when my hand got in the way he clamped down on me.

I now have 5 puncture marks and will be off to the Doctors at 12.15 for a tetanus shot.

Does anyone have any suggestions about how I can change the situation between Jed and Pudicus or any other advice they may feel is important?

Thanks everyone.

[Sheridan]

Separate them. Have a cat zone and a dog zone.

[gwenneth1]

There are far more experienced people on the forum than I am who have a great deal more knowledge of animal behaviour than I do, so I am positive you will get some great suggestions and better than my efforts below.

I was in the same situation about fifteen years ago where our Burmese absolutely despised our new dog addition and he would literally stalk the new dog (whom I got to defer to the cat -not touch under any circumstances including no eyeballing at all). Our dog (a big lad) would remove himself when he saw the cat, but it still left the cat with issues. I ended up with a water bottle (dog on lead) and would verbally 'Jack-ahhhh' and give him a squirt every time he postured up.I don't know if it is just the Burmese breed, but he was one intelligent cat-more dog like in a lot of his behaviour (went on walks with us, actually peed in the toilet!) Probably wasn't an ideal training method and I'm positive there are far more ingenious ways to educate a cat, but it didn't take long and actually worked. They just pretended each other didn't exist -persona non grata to each other, which was actually a bit amusing to watch them in their 'feud'. Mind you, I didn't leave our dog in the house with the cat unsupervised at any time

Ow, sorry you were accidently bitten. If it's any consolation I did that once many years ago trying to stop a dog attacking mine, I must have thought my hand was a shield of steel or something. Anyway, I didn't think in through in that brief instant and like you , tetanus jab in the arm (said no to the buttocks, even though it was the largest part of me!)

[Golden Rules]

Personally I think you should make sure your dog realises that the cat is higher up the pecking order and the dog should stay away from the cat.

The cat is obviously fearful of the dog. The dog can kill the cat easily enough but the cat can hardly kill a dog too easily.

Either separate them, or have lots of high up areas for the cat to escape to where the dog can't bother the cat.

But as mentioned, the dog needs to know the cat is off limits no matter what. And it's not impossible. My old Goldie would stand in the hallway and whinge and whine because the cat was lying there and he was too afraid to walk past.

[The Spotted Devil]

In my house the cats definitely have right of way BUT it is also important that the cats have boundaries too. One of my Burmese girls rules the house with an iron paw - she is absolutely allowed to hiss or smack a nose when the dogs are annoying her but I will verbally warn her if she is doing it just for kicks. You need to be able to read your cat very well to make the decision. The younger Burmese girl is very sweet and gentle and I have had to heap praise on her for telling off the pup or our newest feline addition - it gives her more confidence and she is much more relaxed. The youngest cat, Dizzy, also needs to be pulled into line as his playing with pup can get too rough. At the same time, pup is learning which cats want to interact with her and when she needs to walk away - she gets food and praise for doing so and is quite nonchalant around the Burmese girls now.

[cointreau]

Not really able to give any advice because my two are best of friends. Remember you aren't the only one to put their hand in the wrong place at the wrong time, I nearly lost the top of a finger when my dog accidently bit it when I took some bone from her mouth - my fault she didn't realise my hand was there and there certainly was no nastiness in her at the time.

As mentioned before make sure the heirachy is set and try and keep Jed from going near Pudicus, make areas that are accessible only by Pudicus too. Also just because Jed is bigger don't unerestimate the damage Pudicus can do with his claws, one in an eye could be devastating. Reward both of them for good behaviour too.

Hope your hand is okay and you got as painless a tetanus jab as possible you may need antibiotics for the bite just as a cover because dog mouths are really quite yuccky.

[SpotTheDog]

Jeez, what is it with Burmese cats??

Out of my six cats, only one wars with the dog - and he's a blue Burmese cross!!

But yes I agree you have to tell the difference between defensive aggression (a hiss or swat in response to the dog pushing his boundaries) and troublemaking (Sas clouted the dog the other day as he was just passing by minding his own business).

[shyfig]

But yes I agree you have to tell the difference between defensive aggression (a hiss or swat in response to the dog pushing his boundaries) and troublemaking (Sas clouted the dog the other day as he was just passing by minding his own business).

This is exactly what happened. Dog walks past cat...dog minding own business...cat swats dog. Similarly the other evening cat on table....dog walks around to get to me at other end...cat swats dog...dog did not react but moved around to other side of table...cat crossed over and hung over that side and swatted dog.

Today is the first time that Jed has retaliated. Usually he keeps a wide berth of Pudicus....yet they can sleep together on my bed, lie alongside each other on the verandah....and last night Pudicus walked over and gave Jed a head cuddle.

So I can tell the difference between defensive aggression and troublemaking....the dog does not push boundaries with this cat.

He usually keeps out of his way...today might just have been the straw that broke the camel's back

[shyfig]

Separate them. Have a cat zone and a dog zone.

How?

[SpotTheDog]

So I can tell the difference between defensive aggression and troublemaking....the dog does not push boundaries with this cat.

He usually keeps out of his way...today might just have been the straw that broke the camel's back

Could the cat have really hurt the dog today? Lots of Sas's slaps on gus are claws-in. The other cats hardly ever make contact with Gus - hissing is enough, or a threatening paw wave. Once or twice he'll get a smack but it's because he's pushed his big head up on the couch beside the cat, or shoved his nose in its tummy or something. But Sas appears to be the only one who's genuinely dog-aggressive out of just being a bastard tbh. (Much as I love the cat.)

The issue I find is how my intervention is taken. Gus is an intelligent dog. Once or twice when I've gone to chastise Sas, Gus has taken that as an okay to form an insta-pack with me and start in on the cat as well. The upshot is I have this rapid-fire turnabout chastisement. Dog minding his own business. Cat claws him - I'm giving out to the cat as the dog is moving away from the strike, then whip around on the dog and tell him to 'wait' (his 'do nothing until I tell you' command) before he starts to join in, then I continue to shoo the cat away. I block with my body, getting between them, physically, and move the cat away from the dog by 'shuffling' the cat away with my legs.

/Edited to add that the dog is sitting waiting for me to deal with it when I do this, and the cat accepts my intervention - I wouldn't be sticking my hand or foot in if they were extremely tense and it was a proper row. I'd be more likely to throw something at them - I'm a good shot with the couch cushions :D

I have great hopes that the relationship will continue to improve. I've had Gus just over five months, and he's just over eight months old, so I see the next ten months to be really important in terms of cementing the positives in their relationship and trying to whittle away the bad until he reaches 'adulthood'.

Edited January 13, 2011 by SpotTheDog

[shyfig]

There are far more experienced people on the forum than I am who have a great deal more knowledge of animal behaviour than I do, so I am positive you will get some great suggestions and better than my efforts below.

I was in the same situation about fifteen years ago where our Burmese absolutely despised our new dog addition and he would literally stalk the new dog (whom I got to defer to the cat -not touch under any circumstances including no eyeballing at all). Our dog (a big lad) would remove himself when he saw the cat, but it still left the cat with issues. I ended up with a water bottle (dog on lead) and would verbally 'Jack-ahhhh' and give him a squirt every time he postured up.I don't know if it is just the Burmese breed, but he was one intelligent cat-more dog like in a lot of his behaviour (went on walks with us, actually peed in the toilet!) Probably wasn't an ideal training method and I'm positive there are far more ingenious ways to educate a cat, but it didn't take long and actually worked. They just pretended each other didn't exist -persona non grata to each other, which was actually a bit amusing to watch them in their 'feud'. Mind you, I didn't leave our dog in the house with the cat unsupervised at any time

Ow, sorry you were accidently bitten. If it's any consolation I did that once many years ago trying to stop a dog attacking mine, I must have thought my hand was a shield of steel or something. Anyway, I didn't think in through in that brief instant and like you , tetanus jab in the arm (said no to the buttocks, even though it was the largest part of me!)

Oh this sounds just like my cat...and no he's not burmese.

Tetanus shot done!! And one sore hand.

Edited January 13, 2011 by shyfig

[shyfig]

Personally I think you should make sure your dog realises that the cat is higher up the pecking order and the dog should stay away from the cat.

I have been trying to do this...perhaps I'm not succeeding. Could you give me some ideas about what I should be doing?

The cat is obviously fearful of the dog. The dog can kill the cat easily enough but the cat can hardly kill a dog too easily.

Oh yes!! This I know

Either separate them, or have lots of high up areas for the cat to escape to where the dog can't bother the cat.

The dog is not seeking the cat out to bother. He just happens to have to coexist with it. A bit like kids...you can separate them for awhile but eventually they have to cross each others paths several times in a day

But as mentioned, the dog needs to know the cat is off limits no matter what. And it's not impossible. My old Goldie would stand in the hallway and whinge and whine because the cat was lying there and he was too afraid to walk past.

Jed does this sometimes himself...he knows if he goes near Pudicus he might get hurt so he excercises self control (as noisy as it may be) and manages to mostly keep out of the way. However, further suggestions about how to train Jed to keep away from cat are welcome

[shyfig]

Not really able to give any advice because my two are best of friends. Remember you aren't the only one to put their hand in the wrong place at the wrong time, I nearly lost the top of a finger when my dog accidently bit it when I took some bone from her mouth - my fault she didn't realise my hand was there and there certainly was no nastiness in her at the time.

As mentioned before make sure the heirachy is set and try and keep Jed from going near Pudicus, make areas that are accessible only by Pudicus too. Also just because Jed is bigger don't unerestimate the damage Pudicus can do with his claws, one in an eye could be devastating. Reward both of them for good behaviour too.

Hope your hand is okay and you got as painless a tetanus jab as possible you may need antibiotics for the bite just as a cover because dog mouths are really quite yuccky.

Good to see other people make mistakes too. Not good to know that you nearly lost your finger though. That's what I thought about for a long while this morning after "the incident"....that I was very lucky I didn't lose part of a finger or end up with tendon damage.

Cointreau I am aware also of the damage that Pudicus can do to Jed...and I think he's been lucky so far.

Perhaps the hierachy/pecking order has not been set in concrete yet...perhaps I haven't had clear enough strategies. I would appreciate feedback about how you might advise to establish the order.....as in who goes where and what methods might be used to reinforce that order.

In our family we have:

1 mum

3 boys

1 dog

2 cats

to clarify a pecking order about.

Perhaps some of the difficulty is that we got Jed at 5 months instead of a 8 week or so puppy?

[Golden Rules]

It sounds like your cat may be trying to instigate play by the swiping of the paws when on the table perhaps?

In that instance, I would have uttered a guttural growl ('uh uh' is what I use) to the cat to let it know I was watching and to be warned I wouldn't tolerate much more than that.

If your dog is showing no real interest in the cat and the cat swipes because the dog gets too close, then the dog should learn not to get so close and that a wider berth is required!

To let your dog know that the cat is higher up the pecking order, I feed my cats before the dogs, and I feed them on the Laundry bench where the dog food is plated up.

I let the cats sleep on the bed but the dogs sleep on the floor.

I also pick the cats up and cuddle them in front of the dogs, and make a big fuss of them in front of the dogs, then the dogs get a fuss made of them last.

Just stuff like that ..... seems to work here

[Golden Rules]

Perhaps some of the difficulty is that we got Jed at 5 months instead of a 8 week or so puppy?

No I doubt it, my old boy was old when I got him and he was the one who refused to walk past the cat in the hallway because the cat would swipe him. That was the first dog that cat had ever lived with so I knew the swipe of the paw was her getting in first through fear, even though the dog never once showed any interest in the cat!

[shyfig]

It sounds like your cat may be trying to instigate play by the swiping of the paws when on the table perhaps?

In that instance, I would have uttered a guttural growl ('uh uh' is what I use) to the cat to let it know I was watching and to be warned I wouldn't tolerate much more than that.

If your dog is showing no real interest in the cat and the cat swipes because the dog gets too close, then the dog should learn not to get so close and that a wider berth is required!

To let your dog know that the cat is higher up the pecking order, I feed my cats before the dogs, and I feed them on the Laundry bench where the dog food is plated up.

I let the cats sleep on the bed but the dogs sleep on the floor.

I also pick the cats up and cuddle them in front of the dogs, and make a big fuss of them in front of the dogs, then the dogs get a fuss made of them last.

Just stuff like that ..... seems to work here

Thanks for your reply Golden Rules. This is really helpful