nick&erica Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 Hi before I start I just want to say that I did do a search, but with 2 babies and a pup don't really have the time to read 131! posts OMG! Plus I click on one that I think might help me, next thing I know 20 mins has gone i've got caught up and interested in the post and it didn't help me one bit lol... Anyhow...i've got a rottweiler sam he was born 24/10/06 so that would make him....about 16 weeks! Wow...i'll give you a little info on him incase you need it. His daily routine is as follows (I hope it's ok!) 6.30am 20 min walk (I am slowly introducing him to the neighbourhood has only been going for walks for a week) 7.am Nutro Choice then play till> 10am basic obedience training between 10.30 and 12 I stay upstairs and have some quality time with my boys 12ish He has a juicy bone or chicken wings between 12.30 and 5 he has another couple of basic obedience training, play etc it varies a bit between 12.30and 5 depending how cranky the kids are but I still do everything with him just might vary in time IFYKWIM. He also has things to keep him amused by himself. 6.00pm another 20 min walk 6.30-7pm nutro choice with raw meat. then lights out at 9pm and he's quiet/sleeps till 6am! Right now that's over! I can explain the situation! I'm not sure why dogs jump up but I have been trying to manage it as best I can to no avail. We have a child gate at the bottom of our stairs and when he hears the door open he stands up on it (puts his front paws on gate and stands on back legs) I always make him sit and stay before I open the gate (is starting to do this automatically now but I still tell him to) if he moves when I start opening it I close it again and he goes back into a sit position (is that ok?) now it usually only takes a couple of times for him to sit still long enough. The problem is the last 2 weeks he's started jumping up on me. He's a biiiiig dog not fat as he's on a VERY strict and limited diet, but you can tell he is going to be a tall, solid boy so needless to say even at 16 weeks he can nearly push me over when he leaps up, he doesn't mind but he would certainly be able to if he knew it! Please don't get the wrong impression he does not jump frantically, does not jump all over me it's more of a stand up so he can put his paws on me and say hi, but it's not me i'm worried about. I've got a 2.5 yr old son and would hate to see either get hurt by this. Luckily he has not done it to my son yet as I never leave them unsupervised, and in all honesty he has not tried. Sorry i'm a babbler! What I have been doing is as soon as he decides to jump up I put my hand flat against his face and say "down" he knows this command and goes down immedietly but as soon as I start walking again he jumps up again. I repeat myself I stop put my hand to his face and say "down" he goes down immedietly and it continues as that several times. After about the sixth time he's trots off to where he thinks i'm going and sits and waits. Now he has also started jumping when I have his food bowl in my hand...the situation does not appear to be getting "worse" but then no better either. Is there anything I am doing wrong with him is there a better way to nip it in the bud? This is also the same for mouthing. I don't believe in trying to STOP him from "mouthing" as I feel they need to learn how hard and/or soft to do it but I don't condone hard mouthing and I turn my back and or walk away from him if he does. He does not mouth hard more "fleas" but will he always do this? am I doing the right thing or should I be ignoring every time he puts his mouth on my hand whether he hurts or not? Sorry for the long post I don't ask for advice often so I thought it was my turn! Hope you have all the info you need! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akitaowner Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 (edited) Hi and welcome to the forums sounds like you are doing well - only thing i can suggest is that with the food bowl put it back on the bench until he sits still and waits everytime it goes back on the work top he will realise it takes longer - soon he will be sitting quietly and well behaved waiting for his dinner bowl to be put on the floor. Also see Steve triangle of temptation at the top of the training forum - apply the basics and he will work wonders for you also when he jumps up - simply knee him in the chest, hard and reward him while he has 4 feet on the floor, it may sound a bit cruel but should work almost instantly and make sure he know he cant do it to strangers either. Im with you on mouthing - my 2 have quickly learnt what is acceptable and what isnt by my reaction and i would never worry about putting my hands in either of their mouths for any reason. sounds like your pup is getting a great start PS dont forget he is still only very baby puppy - but they can learn very quick too Edited February 14, 2007 by Akitaowner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SALTWOOD Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 In a lot of cases, no response can be the best response. By that I mean, dog jumps up, you stand really still, do absolutely nothing until dog gets down and sits. Or you can stop what you are doing and walk backwards or turn around and walk backwards, until you get a behaviour you want and then resume walking forward. I insist on respect from my pack but I found that it was a difficult time for me and a very exciting time for my guys at feeding times. I got sick of the mad rush of my pack to reach the kennels where they all get fed in separate runs whilst I was walking down there with all the food. There was runnings and growlings and leapings, etc. etc. all in all a very happy and exciting time for them but not for me being in the middle of it with my hands full. It was pretty much the only time that I didn't have their respect or feel that I was in control. So, what I did was just stop walking - it took all the fun and excitement out of it!! :rolleyes: They were quite stunned at first, all that jubilation and then nothing!! Quite a let down for them until they worked out how to make the food arrive quicker. Now they walk beside me cause they know it takes longer to eat if they misbehave!! ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocksie-doll Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 I feel funny posting this as it is only my second post but I agree with Saltwood - totally ignore the pup when he is misbehaving. Turn your back on him until he looks at you with that "well what do I do now?" expression. When he seems desperate for attention, tell him to "sit" and once he is behaving, give him a pat. At this stage, he will start jumping again. Repeat, only acknowledging him when he is sitting like an angel. At first its a bit tricky getting that window of opportunity to give a pat before they play up again but for a smart dog like a Rotty, he should get the message soon enough. (another good thing is not to make a fuss when you leave - no lingering goodbye's - just walk out) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doghouse Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 My problem child (myf 17 weeks) has the same problem. We dont tolerate it. I turn my back on her and do not communicate with her until she behaves appropriately... As for food they have to sit before the bowls go down. Not sit, no food... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 (edited) I personaly wouldn't be acknowledging the dog at all when it jumps, I simply turn my back and keep turning if the dog moves to the front of me. Absolutely no eye contact, no vocal repremands....simply ignoring like the dog does not exist, once they realise nothing is gained they cease....this has been what we have done with foster dogs. Has the dog jumped on your child before? Dogs jump to get at eye level with you so if the dog can make eye contact with a child without jumping they don't tend to jump up. I would be suggesting you head out to the book store and grab a book by Jan Fennell called Dog Listener. Edited February 17, 2007 by sas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffyluv Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 The method we used with Ollie was to hold his front paws firmly (a little squeeze) and say down at the same time as putting his feet on the ground... It did not take long before he stopped jumping up on people without being asked to come up... There are lots of training methods, you just need to find the one that works for you... Good luck Jodie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick&erica Posted February 19, 2007 Author Share Posted February 19, 2007 (edited) Thank you so much for all your responses! He is a well trained dog and very smart so I have no doubt he'll pick up this quick. Doghouse: I make a very strong point of never feeding sam unless he sits, I have done this from day one it's just the between bit me getting to his feeding area that's the problem I have adopted the method of completely ignore which I have been doing for a few days now. When I reach the bottom step I stand still (bowls in hand) and don't look at him he jumps once initially now then sits immediately as he's not getting any attention. Then I open the gate if he moves I close it and repeat the process untill he stays. He knows sit/stays very well so this is a bonus. I may need to tell him stay once and he will. I've got this process nearly down to a T. He only moves once now before he stays put. Then when I get out and close the gate is when he jumps. I lift the bowls out of reach and completely ignore again standing still. He now stops and sits immediately. Then and only then do I start walking. If he jumps I stop, the majority he is trotting along side me though since I started this. Basically any unwanted bahaviour I stop and stand still no attention completely ignoring him when he does the right behaviour I walk. It seems to be working he's calming down a lot! As soon as he gets to his feeding spot he already know what to do so he sits in his place immediately I put the food down and he stays (he has stayed for 5 mins or more!) he will not move untill I give him the "word". One thing I don't do though is walk away and leave him alone when he eats, I kneel there and stroke him around the neck and mouth, mainly due to the fact that I have a young boy who doesn't understand "stay away from the dog he's eating" I've noticed this has stopped him being food aggressive, he used to growl and bark at me, so I took it slowly started stroking his back end first and worked my way to the neck and jaw and he doesn't care anymore as he knows I'm not taking it away. Of course it's a different story if he has a nice big juicy bone! lol This is purely incase my son walks next to him when he's eating. Sas: Sam has not jumped up on nakia yet! He is only a little under eye level with him the most he's done is just lift his front paws up a little and dropped back down has not touched him though. Thank you for the referece to jan fennells book i'll try and find it Thank you everyone for your advice Edited February 19, 2007 by nick&erica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LilyW Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 (edited) Get a clicker - it is such a great way to teach the correct behavior. And they pick up on it so quickly. If your pup jumps - ignore. He may then eventually sit... when he sits you click and then treat. If you work on this for a couple of days he will work it out in no time. The dog associates that when they hear the click they have done something right and they get either attention or a treat for it. The clicker has also been great for our lead training with Lily - she is getting big, so she is strong and by using the clicker when on her lead she continues to work beside you as you continue to click - it is great! Also - the clicker is a great method to faze out treats - they understand the click sound as they have done something correctly so you therefore eventually don't also need to treat... Edited February 19, 2007 by LilyW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickie Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 How much time do you actually spend with him each day? More than the hour or so stated above? Do you spend much time in the backuyard with him? Do your children play in the backyard while he is out there?Can he see your living area from outside? While I agree with what everyone has said about ignoring or asking for an incompatible behaviour, he also sounds like a pup who wants to interact with the family a bit more. Personally I would be swapping one of his walk times for a play/hang out time. I think 40 minutes leash walk/day is too much for a young growing pup, especially one who is going to be big. Can you drive him to the park & play with him there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick&erica Posted February 20, 2007 Author Share Posted February 20, 2007 How much time do you actually spend with him each day? More than the hour or so stated above?Do you spend much time in the backuyard with him? Do your children play in the backyard while he is out there?Can he see your living area from outside? While I agree with what everyone has said about ignoring or asking for an incompatible behaviour, he also sounds like a pup who wants to interact with the family a bit more. Personally I would be swapping one of his walk times for a play/hang out time. I think 40 minutes leash walk/day is too much for a young growing pup, especially one who is going to be big. Can you drive him to the park & play with him there? Hi vickie Apart from between the hours of 10 and 12 we spend all day with him. There is the odd day i've got a heap of house work to catch up on so he doesn't get as much attention but that doesn't happen often as I do most of my work when the boys are in bed. The 20 minute walks don't even make it out of the street lol...i'm only familiarising him with the neighbourhood so if he wants to sniff the ground for 5 mins he does there isn't a lot of walking going on at the moment. When I start lead training next week walks will be cut to 10 mins morning and 10 at night as I will be expecting him to venture a little further by then. Also with a toddler walking with me we walk at snails pace as you could imagine. some days I only do 1 walk depends. So from 6.30 till 10.30 and between 12 and about 5 we are all down stairs playing/training/chilling whatever...my kids are happier down stairs when the kids are in bed and I finish cleaning I go down and spend 1:1 time with him for 30-45 mins. I will pop up to BF my youngest then come back down when i've finished (approx. 5 mins per feed every 4 hours) so I highly doubt he's getting lack of attention. We have a high set house so he can not see our living area, and he is strictly outside dog for numerous reasons besides the stairs he would have to climb. Hence why we spend as much time as possible with him. He has a very good food drive which I have noticed while training, he has also figured out numberous tricks involving trapped treats he has to figure out how to get so I dare say he is just very excited to see me and a big huge bonus that I have food in my hand. I personally am unsure of how I feel about off/on leash parks. Esp. With 2 young ones I don't like the thought of them being around a heap of dogs where I have no idea what temprement they have around kids. Also I only socialise my pup with other dogs I know. i.e. a rottweiler breeder I know lives 2 streets from me I take him there sometimes. My friend has several dogs that are very well socialised vacc. wormed. etc I take him there too. I know they are good with my kids so I don't need to worry. Also I have sufficient enough space in my yard to run him if I wanted and to play with him. Thank you though for looking at it from another angle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickie Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 I'm sorry N&E, I misunderstood...both on the walking and on the amount of time spent with him. He sounds like a very lucky pup and gets more attention than many. Yes, I know EXACTLY what it is like to walk with a toddler, LOL, veeerrrry slow! I was lucky with the park thing. I only had one small child at a time, so was manageable with a dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♥Bruno♥ Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 Hi N&E Just a quick observation on your daily routine, I would be inclined to be feeding him three solid meals a day. Rotty's are very fast growers, and he would be seeking more than bikkies in the morning, a chicken wing at lunch and bikkies & raw meat at night. At 15 weeks he really should still be eating 3 full meals (eg bikkies & meat) supplemented once a day with a bone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick&erica Posted February 20, 2007 Author Share Posted February 20, 2007 (edited) hi bruno I respect your advice but i'm not concerned about his meal it's the jumping He has a strict diet he has to be on due to potential hip problems (he's severly cow hocked) and struggles with his hips left mainly. He finds it difficult coming to a stand and will not sit for more than a few seconds due to it being uncomfortable though he is too young for a diagnosis the vets (second opinion also) recomends we feed limited amount of food as he was over weight when we got him. Once he's down to the recomended weight we will increase his food bit by bit. Good observation though Edited February 20, 2007 by nick&erica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♥Bruno♥ Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 I think its fantastic that you took this puppy on with his health problems and are a good enough mummy to have him checked out. Congrats, I wish there were more people like you in the world to look after our furry babies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick&erica Posted February 20, 2007 Author Share Posted February 20, 2007 thank you bruno I really appreciate your kind words...a lot of people tried to tell us to give him up as he potentially could cost us a lot of money but we love him regardless. The way I see it is no person is perfect so why should we expect our canine friends to be? thank you again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlibud Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 Hi N&E I also have a lovely 5mths old GSD who will not stop mouthing us when she walks beside you, she grabs your hand and walks with you, with it in her mouth She has learnt that if she bites too hard she gets into trouble but she just wont stop, its like a love bite thing . She does still grab too hard with the kids though and they dont like going out the back I dont know how to stop her doing that . I hate yelling at her but she just does not listen unless you raise your voice.The only one she really takes notice of his OH who she adores We have tried turning away, all that does is give her the back of your legs to grab I have to admit it is getting better ,the thing is she is such a smart little cookie ,everything we have taught her she has learnt straight away except this damn biting thing So will also welcome some ideas about what to do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick&erica Posted February 20, 2007 Author Share Posted February 20, 2007 carlibud: I'm no expert but sam was doing this also. I tried everything from growling/turning away etc but nothing really worked. Now when I go down and play with him as soon as he nibbles too hard I growl and stand up and walk away completely. and keep walking away not looking at him at all untill he loses interest and walks off. Once he has calmed down I will go back to him and play. Sometimes I have to go upstairs so he has no contact what so ever. He is still nipping occasionally but no where near as hard. The key is consistentcy. You don't need to yell at him, just give him a strong growl and remove yourself from the situation immediately, completely ignore him untill he settles. He'll soon learn that biting is unacceptable. Also make sure that you growl and walk off AS SOON AS he bites. Don't delay or you will miss your mark and he'll be confused. It's took sam 1 week to start catching on. Hope this helps. Oh it's important your kids do the same, how old are they? If they are old enough to understand just tell them if he bites give him a growl and come upstairs immediately. It may be a pain in the arse at first but worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 hi bruno I respect your advice but i'm not concerned about his meal it's the jumping He has a strict diet he has to be on due to potential hip problems (he's severly cow hocked) and struggles with his hips left mainly. He finds it difficult coming to a stand and will not sit for more than a few seconds due to it being uncomfortable though he is too young for a diagnosis the vets (second opinion also) recomends we feed limited amount of food as he was over weight when we got him. Once he's down to the recomended weight we will increase his food bit by bit. Good observation though Is this the puppy that was brought from the paper? I recall seeing someone showing photos a while ago? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Hi N&EI also have a lovely 5mths old GSD who will not stop mouthing us when she walks beside you, she grabs your hand and walks with you, with it in her mouth She has learnt that if she bites too hard she gets into trouble but she just wont stop, its like a love bite thing . She does still grab too hard with the kids though and they dont like going out the back ;) I dont know how to stop her doing that . I hate yelling at her but she just does not listen unless you raise your voice.The only one she really takes notice of his OH who she adores We have tried turning away, all that does is give her the back of your legs to grab I have to admit it is getting better ,the thing is she is such a smart little cookie ,everything we have taught her she has learnt straight away except this damn biting thing So will also welcome some ideas about what to do If I were in your situation I definately would not yell. I would however YELP, yelp like you're in real pain - Kids can do this great as they have pitched voices. Puppy doesn't want to hurt you so by showing you've been hurt can help with bite inhabition. Now if puppy is just too stimulated, I would be doing a 2 minute time out. The key to 'ignoring' is pretending the dog does not exist, it can be a really hard thing to do. With fosters that come to us a bit out of control, we usually do a 2 day ignore and then follow the Jan Fennell program and we find it works really well....it's quite hard for some people to do though especially to a puppy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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