westiemum

Thanks Selkie - yes I get that - but as a former Landlord I also understand why so many Landlords just get completely sick of 'entitled' people thinking they have a right to my properties regardless of their circumstances.  And I now think that attitude is a big part of the problem.  I had some tenants recently who three months after they moved in asked to have a very large breed in a very small backyard (I started a thread at the time).  And they would simply would not take 'No' for an answer.  They gave my young property manager a really hard time, bullying her over the issue IMO, after I had made my decision (and in hindsight I'm sure I made the right call) - to the point in the end I stepped in a told them politely to 'pull their heads in' or put it in to the Tribunal (where they knew they had no hope).  They were absolute pains in the arse, chewed up everyone's time by thinking they were entitled to dog after not applying for the dog in their original application in the first place (yes I know people change their minds, but it looks dodgy, like they tried to pull a swifty (and their behaviour suggests that this is what happened here) and it isn't a good look.    

Which is why I'm so careful when I want to rent with dogs myself and am completely up front.  I'm a tenant too - and I've never had a problem - twice applying for and being successful with applications for properties which were not specifically 'pet friendly'.  So I suppose I'm saying there is a right way and a lot of wrongs ways of going about this - and so many people go about it completely the wrong way.   

Even later to the party, but I too would give the dog back but keep a very close eye out - I suspect this poor pup will come up for adoption again. 

And BTW I disagree that rentals and dogs are impossible.  I've rented with both cats and dogs over the years and if you go about it well (be up-front, pup resume, pup references, offer to repair any damage, replace carpets if necessary, don't pick ads that say 'no pets' or 'strictly no pets' but are silent on the issue or say pet friendly, introduce pups to property manager) it can go well.  I've had both cats and dogs in rentals and never once been knocked back.  So I think the original owner is a bit suss.

But overall you've done the right thing - and when you're ready the right dog will appear for you too.  And you never know - it may be the one you had originally. Well done and good luck.

Oh have a wonderful time LFF!  I'd love to travel to Scotland one day (bit of green-eyed monster here!).

Yes its incredible how dog friendly the rest of the planet is generally, when compared with Australia.  Such a shame - and I have a theory that that lack of public exposure and training (both dogs and the general public) is one of the reasons for our high rates of dog attack... dunno. 

Anyway have a great time. Pics? 

Oh he's gorgeous - congratulations !

Yeah I'm one of those 'crazies' - and I can cite the science but I'm not going to take a half day of time to do it. Its easily accessible if you look - start here for a summary of the science and here . 

I've looked incredibly closely and carefully at the science and the political and social determinants of human nutrition, current government dietary guidelines (and yes the food pyramid which we've all taken as gospel and is completely unsupported by the science) and its fads like all the variations on high carb/low fat diets over the last 40 -50 years. And I've concluded that these fads were driven by industry and vested interest and not by sound science.  And for me, the standard government and medical advice I'd been given over a lifetime and told to follow was sending me to an early grave.   

And I've started to wonder if despite the physiological differences it isn't the same or similar for our dogs?  Their diets have changed enormously since processed pet foods were introduced (who benefits?) - and so have their rates of doggy lifestyle diseases - heart disease, diabetes, obesity, cancer etc etc.  Is that connected or is it a coincidence?

I don't know the answer but I'm beginning to suspect its an incredibly important question to answer in a scientifically sound way despite what will be enormous opposition from vested interests.  And yet if those vested interests have nothing to hide, then they have nothing to worry about the science proving their foods are healthy and safe, once and for all. 

Just recently I had my experience with dog-sitting a diabetic dog for the evening and had to do the 8.30 pm injection.  Had not come across a diabetic dog before that evening.  While I was a bit daunted at first it was actually pretty easy - even for this first timer!

Dogsfevr

Quote

We board alot of diabetic dogs these days,its becoming more & more common sadly .

Why is that?  And why are dogs getting fatter?

After a lifetime of weight misery,  I believe I've avoided pre-diabetes and diabetes through an easy but significant diet change to LCHF/keto - and certainly the  science supports my view.  Which got me thinking  - are there any similar studies in dogs about the development of diabetes and diet that anyone knows of?  I haven't seen any,  and while I know dogs are different, it would be very interesting and useful to know if there is any connection between diet and diabetes.

1 hour ago, Apricot said:

A year ago we purchased a pup to to keep our 3 year old dog company after the death of her 11 year old companion.  Best thing we ever did.

 

We did look into getting a guardian puppy.  Seriously looked into it, but didn’t go ahead.

 

What put us off was having to pimp her out to have sex and then go on to have puppies.  Even though this is what breeders do, it's the whole point of breeding, it didn't sit comfortably with our family.

 

I can’t see anything wrong with the guardian ship programs that breeders are moving to.  Ethically, I think it's much nicer for a breeding dog to be part of a loving family rather than be locked up in a formal kennel until its breeding retirement.

 

Even though the dog is in your home, the breeder generally covers some costs  such as council registration and introductory obedience training.  Also covering the complete cost of comprehensive health testing at 1 year of age, and then if it gets the all clear, all of the costs associated with breeding.

 

The other thing that put us off was the dog would have to leave our home to have it's puppies.  I think they said it would be away from home for around 8 weeks, 10 days prior to birth then the puppies being weaned by around 7 weeks.  We didn’t want our pet to be away from us for 8 weeks.

 

Plus we do agility with our dogs and didn’t want to deal with her being on heat around other dogs.

 

If those things don’t bother you.  Then go for it.  My sister in law has a dog that is part of a guardianship program and she’s very happy.  Her dog is a purebred not a labradoodle.

 

I’m not sure what sort of labradoodle you have been offered.  You will need to scrutinise the breeder under a microscope because as with ALL breeders there are a lot of cowboys out there.  We have an Australian Labradoodle which is different from first cross LabradorXpoodle that the forum here criticize.  She’s a 5th generation, from health tested parents.  She’s smart, gentle, loving and eager to please.  She looks exactly like what we were expecting,  has a coat like we expected,  a temperament like we were expecting, she is the perfect pet for us and is a lovely companion for our other dog.

 

As for whether a labradoodle is right for you, with all the bias and misinformation here about Australian Labradoodles,  I don’t think this is the right place to gather that information. 

I'm not going to argue with you. This is not the forum to be promoting cross or mixed breeds and is against forum rules.     

You are talking about one dog.  Here are people with decades of  purebreed experience  and rescue  experience with mixed breeds who will never agree with you.  Even the Guide Dogs man in Victoria who started this cross-breeding nonsense wishes he'd never done it.   Whether you like it or not this is a purebreed forum and labrador poodle crosses are cross or mixed breeds, not a recognised breed and the term 'labradoodle' is a marketing term only - designed to be 'cute' and fool uneducated people into thinking they are buying a distinct breed when they are not.  It is unethical and dishonest. 

You play the genetic lottery with them - you've been lucky with one dog - many others aren't.   And as the original poster here shows in her original post to breed a four year old 3-4 times in four years is a disgrace, yet shows the true profit motivation behind the breeding of these cross-breeds.

Many of us have mixed breed dogs and we adore them - but they are usually from rescues or pounds, are imperfect, not 'designed' and bred for our convenience.

16 hours ago, goldieneale said:

Thanks for the advice.  I'll keep looking and leave the labradoodle idea.

Good for you - now I don't have to give you my lengthy 'why this is a really bad idea' post ! LOL!!  The posts from others are absolutely spot on.

I had a lonely westie boy after my almost 17 year old girl died back in March this year (not sure of his age as he's a puppy farm rescue - but he's at least 12 years). 

While I had hoped he would be OK as an 'only dog' it became clear at the six week mark that he wasn't and seemed to be becoming very quiet, withdrawn and dare I say it 'lonely', after never living without the company of other dogs.

So I started checking the DOL mature dogs listing and I waited until my beautiful Mia popped up online in late April(?).  She joined us on Mother's Day, is  four years old and has been the ideal companion for him.  So I suggest you consider the DOL mature dogs listings, check the breeders out carefully and find a good one who you feel will be there to support you for the life of the dog and wait for the right dog to come up.  

You obviously like golden's, so if not another golden, I'm sure people here will be happy to give you a hand and make suggestions of another suitable breed.  Well done for asking your questions and taking the advice on here (I usually rue the day I don't) and good luck and I hope it all goes really well for you.   

Agree with all the above. Don't delay, send them an email and ring them first thing Monday morning and insist on an appointment on Monday.

Assume you're a groomer?    As an owner, I don't like them and won't use a groomer who uses them.  I think they are frightening and too hard on dogs and their coats.

6 minutes ago, Malamum said:

DDD, as you know I used the same vet practice as you when we lived in the area totally agree with your assessment.  The two principles are fantastic, there was another younger lady who I also liked and thought was very good but there was one vet who worked there that I really disliked and I totally agree with your pet rock assessment, so I wonder if we are thinking of the same person.

 

Not long after we moved, Kira got a paralysis tick and we had to rush her to the emergency hospital near where we are now and I felt like I'd been punched in the stomach when the vet I would avoid at all costs from our old practice walked out as the attending vet.  My fears were founded as the way she spoke to me and treated us was appalling.  She's probably a very smart lady but her bedside manner is the worst I've ever experienced.

 Wonder if its the same vet who moved from Adelaide to Melbourne??  LOL! 

Love it! 

DD that's interesting.  I'm the opposite and lucky.  The practice I continue to use in Adelaide on the Parade at Norwood, has such wonderful vets that I just book at a time that suits me and see whoever is on - have only had one dud there in well over 12 years.  It's great going to a practice where you know the owner vet is very particular about who he employs (although maybe my reputation precedes me as well LOL!).  As I mentioned in this or the other vet thread, years ago there was a silly young thing there - and she didn't last long so I suspect I wasn't the only one unhappy with her 'smart arse' attitude.   So there are great practices around - and we're lucky here in Adelaide there seem to be a few here - The Parade Norwood,  Payneham, Noahs Crossing, Springbank Road, Anzac Highway Emergency to name a few. 

My pleasure sharon - its a bugger of a thing to happen.  Hindsight is a wonderful thing - and yes we've all had times we wish we'd done things differently - and I'll bet those vets are looking back on that evening wishing they could have their time again too. 

But thank you for sharing - its gives all of us an opportunity to discuss and walk around the issue from all points of view - and you never know - it might just help someone else and their dog - so your cavvies death won't be in vain. 

I'm so sorry to hear this - and the terrible loss of your cav - such lovely pups.

And while dogs certainly do die from HGE, as long as you treat it early and aggressively you're in with a good chance.  I had a westie, Sarah who had two bouts of HGE around the age of 6.  We almost lost her the first time, but a drip, ABs from memory and overnight care and she came home fully fit two or three nights later after barking the vet down.  The second time I recognised it earlier, scooped her up and ran for the vet after calling ahead.  They grabbed her on arrival and raced her out the back and onto a drip and other assessment and treatment I've forgotten.   Sarah always had a 'sensitive' 'dicky' tummy, and I often wondered if it was the aftermath of her HGE.  

I have to say your story sounds like your dog did not get the care you could reasonably expect and the vet(s) that night were distracted by the other dog.   Look, while it happens and vets are human and HGE is easy to miss, (particularly in its early stages), the treatment for HGE is not hard and basic support treatment should have been provided (drip, ABs).  I also ask where were the vet nurses who should have noticed that your dog was rapidly going downhill and advocated on your behalf with the vet?  

Glad you've done the vet board complaint.  While it won't bring your dog back, it may help avoid this happening again and make the practice look at improving their processes. 

My sincere condolences again and a little gentle advice from an almost 60 year old - always always question if you are not sure or are unhappy.  I've learned the very hard way to always question the medical advice I get from my GPs.  They are often wrong (scary I know) and I have learned in some cases to ignore their wrong advice. 

My vets are wonderful - they have learned that while I will question, I'm reasonable and they work with me in partnership but that I will not just take their advice just because they are the vet.  I will question and advocate for my dogs as I should given they can't do it themselves.  I hope there is never 'a next time' for you but should something like this happen again follow your gut.  If your dog is clearly deteriorating and no-one is helping you then scoop him/her up and head to the other emergency vet or nearest vet to get the dog stabilised at least.    While there is risk in that as well - at least you are you not sitting there watching your dog die. 

I hope you find some closure and some peace. 

ETA:  I think the Emergency Vets on Anzac Highway have had 'the word' from my regular vets not to treat me like a 'dummy', as earlier in the year, when my Mum's cat developed a very rare form a feline cancer,  and we were seeing some unfamiliar vets at the Emergency Practice, they even gave me copies of the very few studies available so I could read them, ask yet more questions and understand as much as possible the clinical decisions we were making.  (I think my reputation precedes me! LOL!).  Point of my story?  While they are the repositories of the specialist knowledge and skill (and I absolutely get and respect that), I too have skills and knowledge and I know my dog(s).  I am also their only advocate - and I take that role very seriously - and will walk out on a vet (or GP!) if I have to.  Some years ago there was  a silly young vet who I crossed swords with - she didn't last long and went to Melbourne!   

On 7/14/2018 at 12:29 PM, The Spotted Devil said:

I think the trick is to teach University students that even peer reviewed research should be approached with a critical eye. Question everything!

Absolutely correct.  When Mark my Mum's cat ended up with a very rare form of feline cancer earlier this year, the vets could find very little solid research to go on.  They eventually found a small, retrospective study but they were very quick to point out that we were on very shaky ground relying on one study with a small sample.  But we all understood it was all we had to go on.  And yes i checked the funding source for the study - and to me that's key.  

Sandgrubber:

Quote

The evidence based veterinary medicine crew is generally against fresh bones. See, eg http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2018/02/yet-another-study-shows-the-real-dangers-of-raw-diets-for-dogs/#comments

And references therein.

It's possible/likely that lack of positive evidence from controlled studies merely shows that big companies won't fund such studies (would be very expensive).

Bolded bit - its not only that proper studies are expensive, its not in big companies commercial interests to fund studies which show the benefits of raw feeding - which IMO is more likely the case. So of course they won't fund them.  Have a read of the "Dogs First' website (and yes on the basis of sound evidence it advocates raw). 

So I always always always want to know who funds these studies and that's where I start.  If they are funded by the global pet food companies then I don't bother reading any further.  Absolute waste of time.  We know what the 'result/conclusion' is (commercial food good, raw food bad) before we start reading.  As in human nutrition, 'follow the money' (drug, sugar and processed food companies in particular).  The answer is always there.  

Yep. 

52 minutes ago, sandgrubber said:

Sorry, I spoke too soon.  Been many years since I looked at this subject.  The scientific evidence seems to be turning against use of floride.  Here's a good review article.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3956646/

Holy dooley SG.  Thanks for posting.  While I'm not panicking yet,  that article has certainly got me thinking and wanting to know more. 

Quote

A recent study of the effects of inorganic fluoride compounds on human cellular functions revealed that fluoride can interact with a wide range of enzyme-mediated cellular processes and genes modulated by fluoride including those related to the stress response, metabolic enzymes, the cell cycle, cell-cell communications, and signal transduction 

And this...

Quote

As with calcium, magnesium plays important roles in optimal bone and teeth formation. By competing with magnesium and calcium in teeth and bones, fluoride deranges the delicate bone formation and bone resorption processes. Such derangements, and consequent intensity of fluoride's adverse effects on bone and teeth, are amplified in malnutrition, calcium deficiency, and magnesium deficiency [68, 69]. Chronic fluoride ingestion is commonly associated with hyperkalaemia and consequent ventricular fibrillation

I know I'm magnesium (and iron) deficient and my mother is calcium deficient. (I'm not but I also have Vitamin D deficiency).

And this...

Quote

Given the uncertainties and debates about effectiveness, efficacy, and the potential for harming health, it is not surprising that community water fluoridation raises important ethical questions. However, these are not restricted to issues of benefit and harm. In addition, community water fluoridation provides policy makers with important questions about medication without consent, the removal of individual choice and whether public water supplies are an appropriate delivery mechanism

Oh boy... thanks tons SG.  Lots to think about and research further. 

But you know what?  I'm thinking that after Georges story and the fact that I now have come to the conclusion that sugar is the root of all evil (LOL!) and I'm now in my mid 50's, still have all my own teeth (admittedly heavily 'filled'!) and I have a 'chewy' westie  for the first time, I might change my toothpaste, drink tank water and filtered water exclusively for a little while and see what happens.  Can't hurt. 

Thanks PC - good perspective.  I suppose I've just become acutely aware that my apparently genetically metabolically disordered body might not deal well with even trace amounts of stuff like fluoride - its been dawning on me that I don't have a normal body, I've never had one, I don't know what having a normal body is like and what's normal for others might not be normal for me (and vice versa).   So I suppose at the back of my mind is the possibility I might be better off without some of this stuff that I've assumed over a lifetime is safe, may not be and/or may not be safe for me.  (Hope that makes sense!)  

ETA: Oh and with apologies to the OP for the hijack!  

Yep - it appears to me that the owner ran out of money and discontinued.  No precedent set.  

Something similar happened to dear friends of mine here a couple of years back.  In her 'less informed days', she bought a westie from Gumtree which was for sale as the story was that the owner had gone into a home and couldn't take it with her.  They were a bit suspicious, but not overly so, had the vet look for a chip but none found so had her chipped in their name.  They had the dog for 9 years and she was adored. 

One day many years later, a vet looking for something else found another chip - it was in a strange place and had clearly moved.  So after tears and the dawning realisation about what that meant, the vet called the original owner and the westie went home to its original home.  Turns out the dog was stolen nine years before.  While my friends were devastated, they said there was no way they would keep her as she was never their's in the first place (despite them being very out of pocket). So as far as I know this westie is now living a happy life at home with her original owners - as it should be.   And as for my friend, when her current old dog goes to doggie heaven she'll have another westie - but not off Gumtree! 

Thanks SG - Sorry not a topic I know a lot about so hope you don't mind some questions.  So what are the long term effects on us?  And do you know about any studies done in areas which have fluoridated water AND use fluoride toothpaste (so a bit of a double whammy? Or isn't it)?  Or maybe what happens in areas without fluoride occurring naturally?  Just really interested  !

Hi George, I'm so sorry you're not here under happier circumstances and thank you for posting.  I didn't know that toothpaste could be toxic for dogs and will be much more careful in the future - particularly as my new westie is a bit of a chewer. And what you've said makes so much sense.  But it also makes me wonder about the long term effects of fluoride toothpaste on us?  Even in minute quantities? As over an average lifetime we could still ingest quite a bit! 

You're right tdierikx -  and they only go after the soft, easy targets - and they jump on board when other people or organisations have done the hard yards (eg Animals Australia and Live Export). If there's an organisation in the animal world that sucks, then the RSPCA is it!   Opportunistic buggers!

Thank you crazydoglady99  - we all had a lovely day here! 

On 4/30/2011 at 2:36 PM, tarope said:

Where to begin, Clifford the Pitbull :D (We must never forget what the R$PCA did to him).

BSL

A law unto themselves

Money Hungry

Standover tactics

Lack of knowledge of dogs or dog breeds

Moronic Temp tests as shown on that stupid R$PCA show

Hugh Wirthless

Just to name a few, SHAME SHAME SHAME R$PCA :D

A corporatised monster that is only interested in lining its own pockets.