Arya

Okay, is this something she is stuck with permanently? Maybe better to wait until she loses the limp and do some physio if not. BUT if she is fine, if I were you I'd just get a vet letter and explain the situation if you are questioned you can produce the letter. Maybe your vet feels she now needs to work to build up the muscles? I'd just get a letter if she is okay.

Sorry Sonic, I don't know. Pop down and ask though, everyone is so friendly. My experience is that here in SE suburbs we are lucky quite a few really good clubs around

Hi all, I totally agree Barbara. In Sch. tracking is usually done on a collar (though can use a harness) and not on a harness. I have a harness for ANKC tracking and when training, I will sometimes put my dog on the collar because for some reason, this increases her drive over the harness (the reverse of what I see in a lot of dogs that go into 'pull drive' lol). A slip chain on deadring should be okay I would have thought too, unless the dog pulls hard. And I have trained my pup to free track off lead, so minimum interference with her. The deal is, you stick to the scent trail you get the reward (I use footstep and food drops to train). You go off the scent trail there's no pay dirt so not worth it. Free tracking pups great for this I have discovered lol. Cheers Arya

I would also like to say that I'm a member of rotti club even though I don't own a rotti and I train there Wed nights and it is far and away the friendliest club and our instructor is the best trialling instructor I've ever seen at work and I have been an Ob instructor for ages myself in the past. The rotti club have it right - a mix of motivational training with some more trad methods if necessary but they are very very good down there. Really love it!!! Very grateful they let other breeds join, they are great.

The last time I checked it out, about 3 years ago, it was still very traditional. But I'm going to check it out in a couple of weeks to see if it's changed. I really don't want to go that often so it's a toss up between frankston and westernport for me. I can assure you that Frankston is now NOT AT ALL very traditional. I know, I go there all the time as well as other clubs. They are open to all sorts of methods and food is very very welcome in the classes, for instance. However, the issue is that it is very small trialling community there so that there is not a lot of help for triallers if you don't have outside help as the few of us there either do, or don't actually need. It is a good, friendly club though wtih non-traditional growing and growing. As I said in an earlier post though, I know a lot of Westernport people too and they are lovely and non-trad too.

Also, when a dog is man trailling, doesn't it gather scent from every available source - air (wind), surrounding vegetation like bushes, any objects going, water molecules in the area, ground scent/crushed vegetation and bugs under the footprints and also, personal scent molecules left along the trail? Not just crushed ground. :rolleyes: (this is a great topic!)

Hang on, in ANKC tracking the dogs must also indicate articles dropped by the track layer. They are generally socks, carried about or worn by the track layer. There is one at the start post and then progressively, as tracks get harder for the titles, a number on the track. The dog must indicate a certain number. This can be done by dropping on the article, as in Sch. or by simply pausing and sniffing it. In Sch. how is the dog able NOT to follow personal scent? Personal scent molecules must be present on the track, for the dog to identify the articles, unless it is a known track layer. Plus, a certain number of personal scent molecules would be present for some time, even after the initial fifteen minutes or so when they are strongest. Here's what I think. I think it's the way the dogs are taught and the cues the dog picks up at the commencement of the track. Sch. for instance, starts to one side of the start flag. In ANKC, the track starts in front of the start pole. The dog will read this cue. The whole atmosphere is different too. So they just go bugger this, I will air scent too. it is just my guess but I can't explain it other way. I don't think it can be explained by lack of personal scent. In ANKC Track 6 the track is aged for minimum 90 minutes max 180 minutes so there isn't a lot of personal scent left. What do others think? Could it be the cues the dog receives that changes the way it tracks, the terrain, what??? It is interesting!

Jeff, maybe you can answer this better? When I teach my dog to track I teach her to track Schutzhund style, and she does this 'reasonably' well. She is getting better. But when I put her on an ANKC track out in the bush she does a lot more casting about and moves a lot faster and goes into a different style always but still gets there just not beautifully accurately the way Sch. should be. My thoughts would be teach the dog to track, not man trail. Then the dog will still find the person at the end of the track by using ground scent to a fuller advantage and still air scent. A better search dog, in other words. Just a thought. Maybe you could also look up the Swiss Search and Rescue dog teams. I don't know a lot about them but believe they do this sort of work. Think that's what they are called. They are in Australia. Man trailling is big with law enforcement bloodhounds from the little I know of it :rolleyes:

Also, if you are training for focus with a GSD try patterning onto a tug toy or ball which you may find more effective. Just a thought

Okay, yep, you use what to my dogs is quite high value. The all time favourite is... wait for it... SPAM!!! Get a tin of spam but put it in the fridge first cos it is so fatty it goes a bit squishy. But spam is fatty and salty and dogs love it. Small cubes, very small and feed lots of small so they think they get more. The other is boiled liver. I boil mine up on the bbq outside to avoid the smell and don't overcook it so it goes rubbery, just keep it nice and soft and moist. Yukky but effective. Thank fat and salt. It gets em every time.

I have met people from Westernport who are very nice and they seem good trainers. It is at KCC Park too which I reckon is a bonus if you plan to trial as that kind of makes it your 'home ground'. I have heard Berwick is very good for Agility and I know Croydon is super at both Obedience and Agility. Hope this helps

Hey why not teach him to track and he'll still find the person at the end of the track. Does your partner work in security? A tracker dog will find a person no worries and as I said, out on the track in ANKC they spend a certain amount of time casting about and air scenting anyway. It is not as precise as Schutzhund tracking. Check out some YouTube videos of Sch. tracking and see if you can find others and you will see what I mean. It all depends on what your partner wants to use the dog for I guess.

Have a look at any Bernhard Flinks DVDs you can get hold of too. His method of drive training is a really great one, I thought. And yes, the Blabanov. Great stuff.

Hi Everyone, Here's a topic where i might be able to offer some help Tracking... when talking true ground tracking you are talking about the dog following a combination of personal scent of the tracklayer and ground scent from crushed ground where the tracklayer has walked. A really good, accurate tracker in Schutzhund sticks right on the track, nose to the ground, does not air scent and the idea is not to cast about but to stick straight. In practice, in ANKC tracking the dog can be taught like this but from what I've seen and what I've experienced with my own dog, who will track both disciplines, the dog air scents to a degree and casts about to a degree too. I personally would not try to teach a dog I wanted to track well to man trail. I also would think that although it is possible to teach a man trailing dog to ground scent, the default when the dog is drivey and excited on the track would be to lift the head and air scent, gather personal scent from the surrounds not just the track. My advice: depending on what you want to do with your dog, if you want to go for tracking titles ever, stick to proper tracking and forget man trailing. Or teach man trailing just for fun and not worry if you are never going to want to learn to track accurately. All good and all good fun, whichever way you do it!!!

Lablover, I am a sucker for my dog but no way!!! I have tried being firmer but in this instance it creates total mental collapse. This dog has major mental blowouts, really! It can happen from something like a stay. It can happen from overexcitement. It can happen from lots of distraction. It is not good to watch and a temperament fault I don't like to see in a dog. Otherwise she is a fantastic working dog. She is no angel at all and I will correct her and firmly too, if she is out of order. But in this instance, it is shocking lack of nerve. One little incident.... not even that stressful to most dogs but she has a major blowout in the head! I have had to turn into Einstein to train this dog, it gives me the pip sometimes but hey, I have learnt so much and love her to bits anyways so all good