Steve

Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty ? At best Dogs Vic could suspend the membership pending the outcome. I think the video said a lot regarding the conditions the dogs were kept in. It would be pretty disappointing if any org including Vicdogs went by a video presented by people who have broken the law and by comments made by people who are known to be more than capable of telling lies and making exaggeration to score a headline rather than making an independent assessment of the real facts.

Couple of points here - some of these animals were rescue animals - some hadn't spent their whole lives here - none of us know whether they came from a situation that caused the problem and the footage was clearly edited to a point where you wouldn't know if its a problem anyway . The TV footage taken later with the dogs in their day areas showed no dogs pacing or spinning and how do they run around a show ring if they are so severely mentally damaged- best to let the system be the judge I think.

Also consider this the recent proposals for code changes would see dogs without anyone checking whether they had knocked over a water bowl for 16 hours.

Until this case it never occurrred to me that dogs may not have water overnight. Then I spoke with 3 different vets who agreed that if she had a potential snake problem that their advice would be not to provide water over night .We have a really bad snake problem here and we are the only place for a couple of miles with water so its pretty common for snakes to come in and go after the dogs and sheep water bowls - we know this and we are always watchful but last year the Maremmas killed four brown snakes in my house yard and I have wondered if I should put water out around the fence line and pick up the dog's water over night when the snakes are most active.Then we did a big survey on what dog owners do who have their animals inside with them over night - about 30 % didn't have a water bowl inside for them and they got no drink until they were let out in the morning. My point is Ive always had water available all day and all night but Im not jumping in and judging anyone if they have thought it over, considered the risks and determined its better to leave the water bowls outside away form the dogs over night. Remember in Victoria you have to lock dogs up at night so Id say a snake in such a confined area after a drink from a dog's water bowl would be a death sentence for the dog. I'm not judging her on this point. Edited to ad that clearly she was feeding a raw food diet and not a dry commercial one so water requirements are way less than is needed with dry food.

It has now been confirmed that the owner of the property has been charged with 80 offences - with the case to continue in Court this week. http://www.animalsaustralia.org/features/calstead-collies-update.php

Yes there was a lot to comment on but a lot of it is also covered in legislation which will over ride anything that's in the code anyway. The issue of guarantees and pertaining to sales is covered by consumer trading laws ,things such as euthanasia and cruelty issues are covered in prevention of cruelty of animals legislation, who is and is not exempt ,how many dogs or fertile dogs before a particular requirement is on etc is covered in the legislation already with the DPI. If the object was to give those charged with enforcing it greater ability to do so they have made rather a mess of it and the in consistencies and difficulties it presents will give the RSPCA a bit of a pain I think. Even though there is an allowance for the minister to add in groups other than Vicdogs for exemption the working dog people many of whom dont belong to any group and have nothing in common but the fact they breed dogs classified as working if they are to be exempted this will need to be altered in the legislation. That starts a whole new discussion because according to the listed criteria under the legislation for how any group can become accepted as an applicable org and be able to receive exemptions etc just because you happen to breed dogs of certain breeds doesnt cut it. If the minister simply ads in a group which breeds dogs used for hunting a species of deer they may be able to justify it if they allow exemption only to those who belong to their organisation if the organisation fits the listed criteria - but they knocked the MDBA back so far even though we fit the listed criteria and requirements and you cant just join the MDBA to get the exemptions as we screen them first - because they stated in writing that we didn't have enough members in Victoria - never said what enough is - and that we hadn't been in existence long enough - at that time we had been around for 7 years and they didnt say what long enough would be and - in writing - they said that "anyway all of our members can join Vicdogs". So now we have a Victorian state office, we have been in existence for 9 years and we have more members we are re applying - though all of our members can still join Vicdogs and everyone of our Victorian breeder are Vicdogs members including those breeding Australian Cobberdogs who dont own a recognised ANKC purebred dog but if all its going to take is a tick to add breeders of working dogs whether they belong to a group or not which fits the listed criteria and a group which has less members and has been in existence for less time than the MDBA would appear there is something pretty stinky going on in the state of Victoria and anti corruption agencies will need to take a closer look. Remember that these two are named as exempt from ever having to comply regardless of how many dogs they have under this code - Vicdogs are restricted to 10. Having said all that in NSW exemptions only cover the fees you pay on registrations you dont get to have the type of exemptions that Victoria affords to Vicdog members or any other org which may be listed in future so there is a high risk that people will join an applicable org for nothing more than the exemption - you can be a Vicdogs member without ever owning an ANKC purebred dog and if you breed cross bred dogs. You cant say that Vicdogs members get exemption because the organisation ensures they comply with the code because they don't have to comply with any code until they own over 10 and then they are covered by the same processes as everyone else. Is any of it really about what is best for the dogs or is it simply about politics ? How is it that a first cross breeder who is a member of Vicdogs and owns 10 dogs is off the hook and someone doing the same thing who is not a Vicdogs member isn't - makes no sense to me. This is something that astounds me and it was the same when Clover Moore was trying to shut down sales of live animals from pet shops - they go through months of drafting it all and didn't know that Dogs NSW members can sell puppies to pet shops under their code and then they yell because they didnt support them - surely this was something that should have been covered in their research but because someone said Dogs NSW members cant sell to pet shops they went ahead with an expectation that they would get their backing. Same thing is going on here - someone said feeding offal to dogs is bad can create a parasite issue and that breeders only feed it because its cheap - Oscars law submission says that breeders feed it because its cheap and all they needed to do was to do a bit of research to know its only offal that hasnt been inspected which is a risk and that its part of a species appropriate feeding program.If they really thought they needed to cover it in a code all they needed to say was no offal that hasn't been inspected and sold via a human butchery - or that if a breeder feeds offal that's mot checked that they need to ensure worming for hydatid is included in their worming program which most of us do anyway because its in the usual worming preps. Politics. Why is a government involved in reproductive issues for dogs and cats and not sheep, cattle, pigs,horses etc ? Politics. In the introduction they forget to allocate which bits pertain to a rearing establishment so it would appear that a rearing establishment is off the hook and isn't covered under the code - though I don't think that was the intent. So when you stand back from it a bit and begin to question why and if you apply the specific question to every part of it " how does this ensure dogs have a better quality of life and that less dogs suffer" what they have taken as factual or even possible without checking and the bias within it - its just straight up politics. Not real posh for the dogs at all. In all honesty it makes screaming fools of them. Perhaps they got confused about echidnas and dogs when they said dogs should only mate with one female at a time though even though an echidna has 4 heads on their penis I dont think they can do that either http://www.matt-gibson.org/the-worlds-strangest-penis-found-in-tasmania-video/ We wont even go near how many are likely to comply with some of it this code and how its not possible to police.

Its difficult to follow the path they have taken though isnt it? If their goal is to prevent dogs from suffering and ensure they are being cared for,if they are protecting the consumer and humans who work with dogs from some dreadful zoonotic horror then why demand a yearly health check but still want to take away the ability to make decisions based on that health check by the breeder and their vet ? Why on earth would a government care how often a male dog had sex and why is it such a terrible thing for them to have sex if they are young or tpo often - what ever that maybe .Since when did any healthy male mammal suffer because they had sex more rather than less regularly????? Male dogs are not alowed to have sex with two bitches at one time - if we assume its just poorly written and no one ever thought that some dogs had more than one penis and rather they are saying that a male dog cant have sex with more than one bitch per day - why? Whats the difference between mating one bitch morning and evening or mating one bitch in the morning and another in the evening - is it about concerns the bitches may feel betrayed - seriously why are they even thinking that way? I didnt even bother to address the purpose of saying that if a dog has sex for 60 consecutive days he has to have two days off because there is so much one could say about that - and difficult to address without simply saying "you idiots" do they know anything at all about the species reproductive systems? Sheep farmers can have a single Ram go over his ewes over a couple of days and literally mate hundreds but male dogs cant just jump on an off and they simply cant get the deed done - show no interest until they have rested - why dont they know this? The chances that any male dog would have sex for 60 consecutive days - considering how bitches cycle etc is about zero why put it in a code? How on earth can they enforce it or expect that any breeder reading it will take them seriously ? hope they leave it there as a constant reminder to us all of what a crazy place the dog world has become and how the nutters are running the show.

http://www.thechronicle.com.au/news/regional-areas-breeding-ground-puppy-farms/1981885/

far as euthanasia is concerned where possible and where it is in the animals best interest it needs to be done by a vet but some breeders live miles from a vet and sometimes it's much more humane to put the dog out of its misery. Obviously if a dog is dying and suffering ending its suffering quickly in the most humane and expedient way is necessary - problem is this is attempting to address breeders who do what ever they can to thin out the crowd that they no longer can use any way they can think of. Drowning, bashing, gassing etc which none of us surely would argue that this should be able to happen and if it does that breeders should be penalised for it - but if thats what they mean it needs to be better articulated and fine turned because it isnt covering that as is.

And - lets say Im Vic dogs member and I own 12 beagles - Beagles love to live in a pack and as a breeder I look for no dog aggression etc - everybody living together with no issues as they have done for centuries .I love watching them all play and run snuggle up together at night and they thrive on being a member of the pack and as well as spending time with their humans. Now if I own 10 they can all live together without a problem but if I own 11 I have to be sure I never have more than 4 of them together .This code wants to allow someone who breeds dogs for hunting one type of deer to be able to have any size packs - why is it that they should have this ability and no other breeder of any breed can? How does this make sense - how do they determine that only having 4 together is better for them no matter what , how does this make my dogs better cared for and happier? not that it makes any difference because they don't have the exemption under the legislation anyway - what a mess.

the reality is that no code can over ride the legislation and they have introduced several things into this proposed code which is in conflict with the legislation and makes it in consistent - impossible to police and all it does is ask for everyone to be confused. You cant just say in a code that people who breed working dogs and those who breed dogs which are for hunting one species of deer get to not comply because in the legislation they have to unless they belong to an applicable organisation. Magically if you own one dog more than the legislated 3 without being a Vic dogs member or one dog more than 10 if you are a Vic dogs member you have to do everything differently . Under this amount when you breed them and what you breed them with , how you house them and feed them is up to you but one more dog and you are controlled - its stupid. With this code If you breed working dogs you can have hundreds of them and no need to comply with any part of the code. Telling someone they cant feed their dog offal if they own 11 - but they can if they own 10 and they are Vic dogs members is akin to saying if a mother has 3 kids she can feed them liver but if she has 4 - not allowed. Fact is if they feed offal that goes through a human butchery there is no risk anyway so why prohibit and only prohibit it over a certain number ? Mad. then of course you look at the fact that you have no choice you have to have your dogs examined once a year but you are still not able to determine what you will mate and when in conjunction with your vet and its recommended with no science to back any of it up. In all honesty if it wasn't so serious it would be funny - who ever the public servants were who are responsible for this need a good kick in the bum. It allows for no litters past 6 litters for a bitch no matter what variables exist or how healthy she is yet you only have to check pendulous ears ONCE A WEEK! You cant allow a male dog to mate before he is one regardless of breed or variables if he is deemed ready but you can have up to 150 dogs with one staff member . The entire submission which is referenced as supposedly supporting research is horribly flawed - one in particular they cite is simply an article written by a vet and he specifically says that what was in it shouldn't be used to draft legislation! The system they used to work out number of hours and staff ratios is full on crazy - takes no account of design of the kennel and how far staff may have to walk between buildings etc , breed requirements , handling times etc . How could anyone want a situation where a code says you only have to touch one of your dogs when you want to and not daily???? Bits about guarantees is inconsistent with fair trade laws - another legislative pain - as I said if it wasnt so serious we could all laugh at the ignorant public servant who presented it and the minister for not understanding his own current legislation.

Biggest one for me is the way they have worked out staff to dog ratios means one person can be in charge of over 100 dogs at any one time! Once again all it will do is make it easier to breed huge amounts of puppies commercially.

Sometimes. Sometimes they do need help no matter how relaxed they are how loved they are or how much you just let them do it themselves. Hopefully most times

So sorry about Tip. Our property is the only place for miles during summer where water is available so they come in for the water we use for the lavender and herb farm and of course the dog water bowls and the sheep water troughs - last year the Maremmas killed four brown snakes in our house yard. We have done all we can to ensure the place is cleared and everything is up off the ground that is able to be elevated etc. We are just putting in solar snake repellers - don't know if they will work but I figure worth a try.

Depends what you already feed and what you intend to feed. Commercial dog foods are touted as having all you need and recommend that you feed smaller portions more often increasing the daily amounts by about 20%. If I wee feeding commercial food to a pregnant bitch I would add some enzymes such as thrive D because there are no live enzymes in commercial foods and I would add a childrens multi vitamin daily as vitamins are destroyed by storage and heat needed for the commercial foods. I would never feed canned food of any brand in any amount. I feed my dogs a varied natural and raw diet which I've put loads of work into to ensure its a balanced diet for what the dog needs and I allow the bitch to decide how often she will eat it and how much . I always put the food down and remove anything that's not eaten in 15 mins - the big difference is that I offer her food 3 or 4 times a day instead of once a day but its the same diet she eats all of her life. You have to take a long good look at what her diet is way before she gets near reproduction because during pregnancy and whelping and weaning the processes will take what is needed from her bloodstream - even if she has a really crap diet through her pregnancy the puppies will still get what is needed to survive but her condition will deteriorate and stop functioning as it should because what is taken from her body isn't being replaced if the diet is no good or not balanced.

Beautiful - congratulations. May you both live happily ever after. Might need to nominate the breeder too - looks like they did a pretty good job in making the puppy and choosing the owner.

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I would say I get emails and letters for at least a dozen rescue groups Ive never had any contact with and about 20 from those I have had contact with Its no big deal usually easy to opt out if I want to - most I keep as it helps keep me up to date with things - they have to get really annoying for me to turn them off but Im not getting any invites from twitter from anyone and I have an account with them. the newsletters are O.K. but the ones who put me on their list and send a couple of emails a day are pushing it a bit I reckon. Seniors and silkies rescue do it all just right My question about these guys was nothing negative Id heard a nice story about them via something I was doing with this years awards and had a bit of a look and couldn't find where they were so I asked here. Its all good for me.

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I saw this once in one of my bitches. I bred her about 18 months later and there was no sign of it happening again. Ive only seeen it once in 35 years. This might help - every litter is different and if you breed long enough you get some horrible stories to tell. When you are dealing with life and death - literally holding it in your hands nothing is ever certain. http://www.kattwalkgolden.com/maternal_hydrops.html

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