DeltaCharlie

Different dogs learn better with different methods. I taught Cody to weave using a channel (poles off centre that he had to run through, then gradually brought them closer until they were inline). I also did some shaping with him. He never had particularly great weaves though.

I taught Delta to weave 1 pole at a time and with a treat n train at the end. Started with 2 poles and whenever she went through them I pressed the remote (which beeps so sorta like a click) and it dispensed a treat for her. When she was doing it reliably from all angles I added another pole. After about 4 she worked out the pattern and it didnt matter how many I used she would just keep going through to the end. Having the treat dispenser at the end meant she was always looking forward, not at me. I also use 50cm high poles so that she has to keep her head down and really drive through them.

I have done a little bit with Charlie but not much. I have started with some V poles but Im going to actually try the 2 x 2 method with him when I get around to training him as I think it will suit him better. He is my flyball dog at the moment so Im not in any great rush.

Have a look around the net at some different methods. I prefer ones where the dogs actually work out what they are doing, rather than just follow a lure or take cues from your body language. I actually stand at the first weave and don't move when Im shaping weaves as I want the dog to realise they need to keep going. I start walking/running alongside to add speed once they are accurate.

I have a similar problem with Delta and someone suggested using a cloth muzzle on her. She quickly resigned herself to the fact that she can't bite the nozzle and if she stands there quietly the muzzle wont go on.

If your dog is vaccinated then there is not really any more risk to yours then there would be to them meeting any dog. It is more a risk to the puppy if it meets dogs that are not vaccinated.

Its a tricky situation with puppies. You need to get them as much socialisation as possible before they are 16weeks, but you can't really take them out until then. I usually take mine to private training with me at about the 10-12 week mark and socialise them with dogs and people I know. Then I take them out in public at about 12-14 weeks. I try not to let them meet any strange dogs, I am involved in enough dog sports to have access to hundreds of dogs that are great for socialising, without exposing them to dogs I don't know. However, getting them out around kids playgrounds, crowds, etc is so important that I just take the risk. I wouldn't do it at 8 weeks though, that is just too young and if they were to get seriously sick at that age it could end badly.

Ive seen it at a pet supply place in Blacktown. I called in one day about a year ago to see what they had and check out their meat prices. Before that I had only ever seen them on the internet.

I'd say it's fine to start now. Even if it's too big it just means they'll take longer to get through it.

which means less time you have to spend trying to keep them amused so they dont start chewing the furniture

I feed them chicken necks from the day I bring them home. If you freeze them first you wont have to worry about them gulping them down, its too cold for anything but chewing. Also a great way to teach them safe bone-eating habits. My dogs still get their bones frozen most of the time, although at least I know that they will eat them sensibly if they are thawed.

I have an adjustable one that I bought from Kmart. It has four different sound levels that is great for working with 2 dogs, I keep it soft for Delta and loud for Charlie. That way they know which one is being clicked. It also has a button like the i-click which makes it easier to press.

Otherwise I just use the standard blackdog ones. Cheap and easy to replace as I seem to lose them on a weekly basis.

Was the clicker in Kmart in the dog/pet section? I have never seen it there.

Yeh I stumbled across it one day and thought it would be a good idea.

Must admit I usually use the other ones though. Or I use it on loud settings for both dogs. I just find that loud is better with my 2.

I have an adjustable one that I bought from Kmart. It has four different sound levels that is great for working with 2 dogs, I keep it soft for Delta and loud for Charlie. That way they know which one is being clicked. It also has a button like the i-click which makes it easier to press.

Otherwise I just use the standard blackdog ones. Cheap and easy to replace as I seem to lose them on a weekly basis.

My dogs absolutely love roo tails. They are actually really meaty, they seem thick but the bone part is quite thin.

Within 5 minutes of bringing Delta home she had established herself as the boss. When I went to feed them that night, Cody walked away from his chicken frame if she so much as looked at it. I had to watch them eat or she would have eaten both servings, bit too much food for an 8 week old puppy :rolleyes:

I would just supervise them and let them work out their own order. While still only a puppy herself, your girl should have seen enough of the world to tell him when he needs to back off. He will learn what he can and can't do around her pretty quickly.

Cody used to fight against anything I put on his face. Haltis, cloth muzzles etc. When I realised I was going to have to start muzzling him at agility as a precaution (we moved into the top class where there was a very aggressive dog who Cody hated) I started looking around. The plan was to put the muzzle on him every single time he left the house, whether it was for a walk, training, the vets etc. I wanted him to associate the muzzle with a good thing (going out). That was the whole reason he wore one for obedience, he didn't need one but it kept the consistency going.

He never fought that muzzle though. Whether it was because I put it on him every time or whether it was just less restricting I don't know. He knew how to get it off but after the first few times he realised I would just slip it back on again and he didn't bother. He became much calmer with it as well. He rarely lunged at other dogs and started allowing other dogs to get right in his face when their handlers were stupid. He was fear aggressive though, so it would be different to your situation. I always took it off him at the end of class when they all ran together. Not once in his life did he have an issue off lead as he knew he could outrun the other dogs if he felt threatened. A whack from a muzzle wouldn't be in the best interest of the other dogs though.

Raw eggs and fish are both good sources of Vitamin E. Mine occasionally get an almond or a peanut aswell.

Basically it is recommended that an 2 eggs a week or a nut each day is plenty for a 25kg dog. Delta is 13-14kg and Charlie is 16-17kg so I only feed them egg once a week.

This is the one I used for Cody at agility and obedience. I think it would be too small for a GSD but if you want to try it you are welcome to, its a large I think. Im not using it for anything at the moment.

A conversation with Sidoney came back to me last night and I realised that Cody would have been 3 today. I keep thinking to next weekend which will be the first anniversary of his death, completely forgot about his birthday though. Whats new? I always remembered his birthday at the last minute...

These were taken at his birthday last year. They are the last photos I ever took of him. My camera was broken so they are from my phone sorry...

Happy birthday Cody, wherever you are darling.

I always buy human grade liver, kidneys etc from the supermarket. I also freeze it most of the time before feeding it to them.

It is a necessary part of their diet if they are fed raw.

Charlie is basically at the "learn the behaviour on the actual obstacle" stage but as he doesn't actually do agility at the moment we aren't really progressing past a stair. He has to be different though- completely aware of his rear end, has no idea that he has front legs! It has taken me 8 months to teach the damn thing how to shake a paw! Even now he still shifts his weight a little until he works out how to lift it up

We ended up changing Delta to a drop. Whether she ends up dropping on the end of the obstacle or doing a 4 on the floor behaviour is yet to be determined but she naturally wants to drop so we will work with that.

I would go right back to the start. Teach the dog to use its rear end. Ladders are good but I prefer perch work. Basically get a phone book or similar and using a clicker get the dog to put its front legs on the book. As soon as they move one of their back legs you can click (step towards them if need be). The idea is to get the dog to keep its front legs on the perch and move its back legs so that it is turning all the way around the book. They need to concentrate on their back legs to move as their front legs aren't really supposed to. You can also teach them to walk backwards. Sit on a chair and wait for them to move one of their back legs. Click and throw the treat between their front legs. Next time they have to move a little more, each time reward by throwing the treat between their front legs. You want them to eventually move a little further back every time until they are walking backwards across the room with you still in the chair. Some people walk into their dog to teach it but Im not a fan of that method, especially as a rear end awareness exercise. It teaches the dog to move out of your way rather than teaching them to move their back legs.

Then you can put them back on the end of the obstacle. Make that position the most desirable place in the world and only ever reward if they are doing the 2o2o with their weight in their hips (if they dont put their weight into their hips they have no chance of stopping at the end without causing damage). Ive seen many dogs fail to stop at the end because they carry their weight at the front of their body. Almost impossible to come to a dead stop like that.

Do alot of stablising work in that position. Get to the point where you can leave your dog in that position and walk all around the course without your dog moving. Once your dog is consistently holding position until given the release command you can start linking it to another obstacle. I have found that dogs have more problems with stability if they know they are heading off to another obstacle. Its the same as start line stays, they are so excited to get going that they don't want to have to wait. If they are focussed on another obstacle then they wont be in the right frame of mind for learning to hold position.

Does that make sense? Its late and Im tired...

Crocodile and emu are also incredibly low in fat and full of the good oils but I don't like your chances of finding those

Had a look on one of those links posted. Crocodile is 36.99/kilo and Emu is 41.99/kilo :D

The butcher I am getting the rabbit from sells them for $10 for a wild one and $20 for farmed.

Which butcher is that? Id be interested in trying some rabbit with mine for something different.

I honestly don't know how anyone can find raw foods to use as training treats I'd love to hear it too! I mostly feed cooked chicken breast or cheese, or *cough* natures gift treats.

Haha I use those Nature's gift ones too! They are such a great size for training. They also fit well into the manners minder (used to be called treat n train) because they are a uniform size.

I will also fess up to using dry cat kibble as a training treat -hides-

I always have at least half a dozen different treats in the bag. I find that if a dog knows what treat is coming they can choose whether or not to work for it. This way it is as much a surprise to me as the dog.

Usually my weekly training treat bags contain a mixture of the following (not all at once):

- cabanossi

- cheese

- sausages

- frankfurts

- Nature's Gift treats

- cat kibble

- roast chicken

Charlie is motivated by fetch more than anything else so I use that whenever I can. For the times when fetch is difficult or not permitted such as flyball comps or obedience training I use Chunkers (yes those processed crap things) and the Kramer Chicken Breast Bites (he actually prefers these to tennis balls, which says alot!) These are the only food rewards he will work hard for so I try not to use them very often. I want them to stay special for him.

Delta will work for anything (except a vigorous pat which results in her growling and snapping at me). The biggest reward she can get is to let her do it again! She absolutely loves agility and has had a few weeks of basic flyball training. All she wants is to go again :D

-was paged to this thread :D-

Sorry if this isn't exactly what you were after for this thread. Its just the standard information I post whenever someone asks me about prey model diets, it gives basic information and people can then ask me more specific questions.

This is a sample weekly plan that I usually show people to give them an idea. It doesnt have to be strictly adhered to- thats the beauty of this diet, it just has to even out over time. If I have nothing but meat left over then thats what they get for a week and the next week I feed more bones. I would advise feeding the bones frozen at first as it means they have to chew through them properly as they are too cold to swallow whole. This should prevent them gulping them. I fed frozen bones to Delta from the day I brought her home at 8 weeks and I have never had a problem with her not chewing them properly.

Monday: BONES (chicken necks, wings, drumsticks; duck necks; turkey necks; lamb soup bones; kangaroo tails; ox tails; lamb flaps; ribs)

Tuesday: MEAT (a raw meat mince thing I get from a racing greyhound supplier near me. I usually get a beef/lamb/chicken mix but if Im short on money I get chicken mince. I try to get a different meat though as their bones meal is usually poultry based.)

Wednesday: MEAT

Thursday: MEAT

Friday: BONES (unless mondays bones had very little meat on them, then I feed meat again)

Saturday: 1/2 ORGANS (liver or kidney usually) 1/2 FISH (canned tuna/salmon/sardines/mackeral)

Sunday: 1/2 ORGANS 1/2 FISH (basically the other half of the packets from the night before)

Basically each day they should get 2-3% of their ideal body weight. For my dogs that is only about 350-400g per day. It doesnt seem like much but any more than that and they start putting on weight. Because everything that you are feeding them is useful they dont need to eat as much, hence less coming out the other end.

Basically a rough guide is to feed

10% organs

15% bones

75% meat

I also feed raw egg a few times a week (plus the shell crushed, its great for calcium) and yoghurt every so often. So long as you are also feeding fish weekly you shouldnt need to supplement their diet in any way. They get plenty of omega-3 (eggs and fish) and calcium (eggs and yoghurt) as well as all the good bacteria that yoghurt provides. Off the top of my head I cant think of the names of all the vitamins and minerals needed but I know that they are provided by this diet.

Judge the diet based on how they look and what their poo looks like:

- If they are putting on weight, feed less; if they are getting skinny feed more

- If their poo is black they need more bones, if it is white they need less bones

It has been a long time since I stuck to the certain food each day routine that I posted above. Some days it is easier to just open a can of tuna for them. I never remember to get the meat out of the freezer which doesnt bother them but if I am in a rush I dont have time to wait for them to eat a frozen chicken carcuss just because it is "bones" day.

I have this chart on my fridge. Every meal I write next to it what they had (c= chicken, f= fish, l= lamb, b=beef, k= kangaroo) so that I dont feed them chicken all week etc. I write breakfast on the left, dinner on the right, although they usually just get one meal as Im lazy so I write both the same time. Any extra stuff I added gets written down the bottom (e= egg, y= yoghurt). It is easy to keep track of what they have had this way and I dont double up too much.

As for the shopping list, I get most of my stuff from butchers or the greyhound supplier near me. Be careful to get human quality meat though (it can be packaged for pets, thats still okay). Pet mince can sometimes have a chemical added to stop it going off as quickly and this can make your dog very sick. Human grade food is not allowed to have this chemical added. Any scraps from a butcher etc is fine, I would just be wary about the pet mince in supermarkets etc (although they cost an arm and a leg anyway). Butchers will often mince up all the bits humans wouldnt eat and sell it to pet owners cheap so it is worth looking around to see what is available.

I pay 50c a kilo for chicken mince and about $1 a kilo for the beef/lamb/chicken mix. There is a chicken place near where I work that sells 5kg bags of carcusses for about $3; chicken liver, hearts, kidneys etc for about $1.50/kg, and things like chicken necks, wings, drumsticks about $1.50/kg. I can buy a months worth of food for 2 dogs and a cat and pay about $15, although I wouldn't feed only chicken.

I like to vary the meat sources but the only place I have found for non-chicken organs is the supermarket which can be a few dollars for 500g. Organs are probably the most expensive part of the diet, but still only cost a few dollars a week. I also get the canned fish from the supermarket (just the home brand stuff). Im sure the seafood places could help out but I dont like the smell in those places so I havent ever gone in and asked.

I usually get the bones from the butcher aswell. There is one near me that makes up 2kg bags of lamb flaps, shanks, and other completely edible bones and charges $1/bag. You just have to make sure you are getting bones that your dog can chew through, so no weight bearing bones like cow legs and stuff. Although they are good for chewing on, just not for dinner.

It seems like a lot of work and preparation but it really isnt very hard at all. I spent months researching before finally switching, then kicked myself for worrying so much about nothing. Once you get into a rhythm it really doesnt take much effort at all. Once a month I will buy everything I need for that month. I get home and spend about 30mins putting it all into individual portion freezer bags and put it in the freezer. Then each day I get it out and give it to the dogs.

At first I watched everything like a hawk ready to make any minor alterations. I weighed every single portion and made sure they were just right, I checked the poo daily, and I kept a close eye on the dogs. Then I realised how obvious it was if something wasnt right and how easy it was to fix. It really isnt as daunting as it first seems.

Check out these websites aswell

http://www.rawfed.com/myths/

http://www.rawfoodlife.com/raw_pets.htm

http://www.rawfeddogs.net/

http://www.rawlearning.com/rawfaq.html

http://www.kaossiberians.com/rawfeeding.htm

Great minds ay Poodlefan

I have just started agility with my bitch and have looked everywhere for a Tab lead and cant find one. I have also had trouble finding a large treat bag, as the one i have for showing is much too small. Does anyone here in Perth have any recomendations?

My tab lead is simply the shortest, thinnest one I could find. I folded it in half, possibly in half again (cant remember), and then tied knots along it to get rid of the loops so the dogs dont get their leg caught somehow.

I know of many people who buy a cheap lead and cut it at the right length and then tie a knot in the end to make it easier to hold.

As for treat bags, I like the black dog ones as they automatically close. You can order them from their website. I cant find mine though so I just make sure I wear something with pockets. You can always use the one you have, with a supply somewhere else. When you run out you just go back and fill it up again. If I have no where to put my treats I leave them on top of the crate and just grab a handful at a time.

Are you saying Delta charlie that the tamron lens dont have auto focus or that the d40 Nikons dont 'talk' to the lens to autofocus?

The nikon d40 has been designed differently to every other camera in the world lol. Basically to make it much lighter they have taken the autofocus out of the camera. There are some lenses which have been designed with the autofocus in the lens (af-s lenses); these are the ones that need to be used with the d40 if you want af.

My camera will still work with any other nikon lens, I just have to manually focus them.

If you have any other camera then you will be fine with the AF tamron lenses.

I have a tamron 18-300m lens for my nikon d40. Only problem I have is that the d40s dont have autofocus (its in the lens) and I need autofocus when I am taking photos of dogs at flyball/agility. I ended up buying a nikon lens not long after.

The photos themselves turned out nice though. With a different camera I dont think I would hesitate about using it.

Yeh I do remember telling her you were in Melbourne. She must have forgotten