Lizzy06

I have posted a few subjects on here regarding Pancreatitias. My Lizzy has it and her vet said i should try her on Zantac. He has said it to me numerous times now, but it is medication and i don't like the idea of her being on it. I was wondering if anyone else has used it for this reason? He told me the lady vet doesn't like the idea of her going on it but he thinks it may do her well. I have her on Enzyplex and i was asking him which brand of this was better and whether Thrive D or B would do a similar thing to help her. (As i'm almost out)

If anyone could help me with SUpplements to put her on ie Vitamin E & C and where they get them from, that would be appreciated too. I bought her some vitamin E from the health food shop the other day. But i don't understand how much i should give her as it says on the bottle that half a dropper is for kids which is 78IU. Online it says to give a small dog 100IU which is almost an adults dosage according to the box of vit e. Websites i have been onto say a dog should have 1/10 or 1/6 of the amount of an adult. So it doesn't make sense to me so i have sinced stopped giving it to her. Is there a supplement u can purchase for dogs which has these in it? Or what is the best way to go about it.

I always cooked Cadence's food if I could and the following gave me good control of his condition and he didn't have an attack for 9 years - I learnt to recognise the signs of an impending attack - ie: poos would get runny and then start to be jelly like and I'd instantly change his diet..

normally....

chicken mince boiled (1kg in water in microwave for 12 minutes) cooled and into the fridge till the fat congealed on the top - scrape all fat off and throw out) used to add white long grain rice and small amount of oatmeal cooked together. With him I used Supercoat because he could deal with the fat content (8%), but another might suit your dog better - just be mindful of the fat content being the baddy. If he showed signs of an impending attack he went straight onto boiled chicken fillets (human quality from Coles) and boiled rice with no oatmeal for 4 days with a tablespoon of Greek yoghurt mixed in. Nothing else at all till his system settled down....

Rule was that no-one but me ever gave him food without asking, and I had to approve it.......

he never ever had any of these since the first attack...

no fresh bones (marrow not good for them either)

no bacon

no chicken skin

no ham

no treats other than Bonio biscuits (all of the other treats including dried liver) had too high a fat content

no rawhide chews, pigs noses etc

no gravy

no cooked meat of any kind- the fat content of all of them was just too high.

He could eat the little Pal pouches of food when travelling but only for 2 days out of 10 - after that the level in his system would mean that he had to go back to his normal diet - that 1 extra day could have tipped him over the edge.......

interestingly (the vet was surprised) - he could eat cheese with no ill effects

It's really a case of getting know what your dog can and can't deal with - go onto boiled chicken breasts and rice till the poos have been stable for about 4 days, then start introducing 1 change every 10 days till you have his diet to what you want...any sign of a problem, back onto chicken fillets, rice and yogurt...then try a different change..

hope this helps you guys a bit, worked for us, but did take a while to work it out.

Thankyou for this. Wow i will be the happest person in the world if i can get Lizzy to have not more atacks for 9 years!! Were you giving a few meals a day as well instead of the one main meal? Would i tbe possible to get a dogs system to handle a different meal in the morning as to the evening. As for instance. The digestive food in the morning and then chicken / rice / vegies evenings? Did you used to feed vegetables. Is Chicken fine for a rest of their life diet ie no red meat?

you also said NO Fresh Bones. Was there some sort of other bone you fed. My girls back teeth are pretty horrible. I try to brush them daily.. but tthey are still dirty.

I had taken Lizzy to the vet on saturday for follow up blood testing on her kidneys and it was the next morning she vomited etc. I rang the vet and said i thought she was fine until she had been there. He said perhaps the stress of her needles (as she was yelping set her off) i find this a little hard to believe. Her poos were abnormal for a few weeks solid but like a yellow / greenish off colour.

Lizzy06 what are you feeding to control the pancreatitis?

I wouldn't say she is controlled exactly! But i have her on Royal Canin Low fat digestive tins / biscuits. I feed that in the mornings and evenings i was feeding her boiled chicken or kangaroo, blended vegies and rice. I'm trying to work her little body out still. She is also on Enzyplex (enzymes with each wet meal) she flared up over the weekend after 3 months of doing well. So now i'm back to the drawing board of working out what went wrong. ALl i can think is that i was over feeding her in the evenings or you see she has a drinking problem... hardly ever drinks so i was sitting down with her in the evenings with around 100-120mls of water with a little cottage cheese in it to get her to drink. Perhaps it was to much water for her body to take. So i will stop this and stop the cottage cheese.

Sounds like chronic pancreatitis - around the time it started did he have anything that was very fatty like a bone or bacon? What do you feed him?

Cadence (previous GSP) was like that if I didn't watch the amount of fat in his diet like a hawk.....I used to get poos like that when he had been having a diet with too much fat for the previous few days and it got to a level that his pancreas couldn't process...and off the cycle would go again.......learnt what I could feed him regularly, what I could feed him for no more than 2 days etc..the magic number with tinned food was 7% fat and with dry food 8% fat - any more and about 5 days down the track that's exactly what we'd have...back onto bland chicken and rice and yoghurt for 4 days then slowly back to normal diet.....

Sounds like Chronic Pancreatitias to me too. My girl suffers from it and i'm in the process of trying to work out her system. I get her under control and then 3 months later it happens again. Normal blood tests don't usually diagnose this disease. Lizzy was sick for a few months and they couldn't for the life of them work out what was wrong, at one stage they thought her kidneys were failing. After me nagging they finally did a test that gets sent to W.A and i think it is about 80% accurate at diagnosing pancreatitis. Finally came back positive. So now it is a matter of trying to control it. It is a horrible painful condition. You said about not eating food and then a few hours later your dog will? this is what Lizzy was doing all the time. The thought of food sets of pains in the pancreas. Lizzy will go to eat food and then it is like something stops her and she cannot eat. She will also eat alot of grass and sometimes vomit and you can tell that something is just generally not right with her, a lot more quieter, a little depressed perhaps and very glassy looking eyes! I strongly suggest you ask your vet for this test. If it is Pancreatitias you shouldn't be feeding the pooch and they should be starved for at least 24 hours. Also some dogs just cannot stomach virtually any fat at all. Liz is just getting over a flare up at the moment and i cannot work out what set her off this time. So now i will be keeping her diet to the absolute bare miniumum of fat. (don't know how i can go and lower though honestly)

When I need my oldest boy to drink on long trips, I offer him skim milk - he loves it.

My guess though is that your girl is getting enough water.

Is skim milk ok to give them? Are they lactose intolerant to it though?

I could give her that watered down perhaps too.

Why do you think your dog needs to drink more?

What is her drinking bowl made out of.

Yes i honestly do. I have felt this for months and months now. She has two one is cermaic and one is plastic.

Is your feeling based on veterinary advice or just your perception of what she should be drinking? She is a tiny dog getting significant water in her food. I rarely see my smallest dog drink but she's not dehydrated.

I'd suggest you get rid of the plastic bowl and replace with a stainless steel or food grade ceramic one. If the ceramic one you have is not food grade, I'd replace it too.

The vet said a dog her size should have 50mls for each 1/2 kilo she weighs. She said she should drink between 250 -300mls a day.

Will do that about the the bowls. The ones she has are probably cheap chinese ones. Where would i buy these sort from?

I have heard that you can give them ice cubes - something to chew thats also a drink?

Ive tried that she has one or two licks and then walks off. ha ha

I'm sure she does this to test me lol

Hi- your dog probably only needs to drink about a cupful each day

Don't forget the food contains water... and some is obtained when food is metabolised.

Don't fuss... or try and encourage her... this may make her anxious about actually drinking in front of you

Yeah i know but she wouldn't even drink half a cup full a day :-(

Ok will try not to encourage but it is hard when i know she isn't drinking enough.

Why do you think your dog needs to drink more?

What is her drinking bowl made out of.

Yes i honestly do. I have felt this for months and months now. She has two one is cermaic and one is plastic.

My puppy wasn't a big drinker when she arrived. Her breeder was mixing a lot of water with her dry food so that she was getting fluids. I don't do that here. I gradually increased the amount of dry and decreased the water but made sure that there was clean and fresh water available at all times.

Oh and I don't use tap water for my dogs, they get either bottled or distilled water because many dogs don't like the chlorine taste/smell that some tap water can have. And remember that their noses and taste buds are so sensitive that they can sense it even if we can't.

Does your puppy drink more these days or still not a big drinker? Does it depend on the breed of dog? she is a mini foxi cross chihauhua.

Not much ingredient info in that product - only the vitamin breakdown ?

It would be good for ill dogs.

I think this little dog of Lizzy's has kidney and pancreas problems... so may need to watch intake of salts, etc.?

A vet seeing the dog would be the best to diagnose that.

She was at the vet all the time when she was very sick. They couldn't really help me with anyways to get her to drink more. He just said like a horse you can lead her to water but not force her to drink it!

Not much ingredient info in that product - only the vitamin breakdown ?

It would be good for ill dogs.

I think this little dog of Lizzy's has kidney and pancreas problems... so may need to watch intake of salts, etc.?

Yes my little Lizzy girl does have Pancreas / kidney problems. So that is another issue i have to watch with the salt / fat intake!

Hi-

She will drink- she may not need much if she is getting wet food - and perhaps she drinks when you're not around?

leave out a few different bowls- often dogs prefer water which is not 'fresh'.Try different materials- a ceramic one, a metal one , a plastic one....

The more water you ,mix with her meals.. and the more chicken stock you give her- the LESS she will want to drink plain water

make sure there is at least one DEEP container of water which stays cool... and try to not change water too often.. .let it sit for a day to remove chlorine and other smells

use rainwater, perhaps?

Our dogs all prefer to drink out of one particular container when outside (there are about 6 different watering points around our yard)

If, after a long walk... she is tired and panting a lot- and doesn't drink- she may well do after she has 'cooled down bit'.

Hope this has been helpful.

I know she does not drink when we are not around. Her water bowl level never changes :-( Even when she was a puppy she was the same. I will try the rain water idea.... that sounds good! At the moment she does have a cermaic one and a plastic one. I think she just never feels thirsty?? it is strange. My mums dogs drink alot!. I know she is getting water in her wet food but i feel as though she doesnt get enough. They say 50mls for each half a kilo the dog weighs. I work out she should drink about 300mls. I think she would be lucky to have 100mls at the very most!

Thankyou for your help :-)

oh- all our water containers are at least 4 litres capacity... some are about 30 litres...keeps the water cooler in our heat.

Hi I've been having troubles over the last 6 months or more to get my dog to drink. It is a mission. I have to mix water in her food so i know she gets some down. It is very rare she goes to her bowl and drinks on her own! Sometimes in the evenings i can get her to drink a little after boiling her chicken and she will drink a little bit of the water left over!. I'm getting to my witts ends with her! Even after a long walk she usually still does not drink!

ANy sugestions would be appreciated.

Thankyou

Hi my little girl was diagnosed with pancreatitas after 3 flare ups. Most of last year she was sick on and off!

I finally seem to have her under control now.. (touchwood)

I give her two meals a day now. As smaller meals are more beneficial. I think they should be fed several small meals a day but because i work full time this is not possible.

Fore breaky i give her Royal Canin Low fat tin food. She is not fussed on it so i mix some low fat cottage cheese into it with digestive enzymes. The cottage cheese tempts her to eat it!

For dinner i cook vegies and blend them to liquid, cook brown rice and boil chicken. Mix it all together with enzymes! As a treat sometimes i give her some plain yoghurt in it or i cook Kangaroo steak once or twice a week for somthing different instead of chicken all the time! She gets given royal canins low fat dog kibble when i leave for work just a half handful and a few more when i get home from work.

She seems so much better in herself nowdays. She used to be in constant pain and sleep alot and used to be such a fussy eater. She now knows she gets fed what i make and doesn't eat our food anymore. It takes alot to get them intoa routine. She is now 2 and a half. The first year and a bit of her life she would eat whatever we eat and then when she got sick it took me months to get her onto her own diet!

I hope this is useful for you and i hope your pooch will be ok. It is a hard disease to handle that is for sure... and so cruel too.

I have posted a few topics on my girl with Pancreatitis and Kidney problems. These Chicken treats were recalled almost a week ago now. They are still on supermarket shelves. My girls vet went to see out local supermarket and told them there has been a recall and explained what they do to dogs and to take them off their shelves. They ignored him and they are still selling them.

My mum also works in supermarkets and they are selling them too. What do we do or who who do we go to to make sure they get taken off?

Iam so angry if this happened with human food it would be a major deal!

I'm thinking good wishes for your beautiful boy..... Stay positive for him!!!

Some additional information for you...

AUSTRALIAN company recalls chicken strips after dogs fall ill

10.dec.08

ConsumerAffairs.com

Lisa Wade McCormick

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2008...pet_recall.html

An Australia company has recalled some of its Chinese-made chicken strips because the treats may cause illnesses in small dogs. And those illnesses sound similar to the ones dogs and cats have experienced after eating Nutro food, according to a regular ConsumerAffairs.com reader.

The KraMar Pet Company of Australia announced the recall today, saying it has received 15 reported cases of illnesses since it launched its Supa Naturals chicken breast strips 15 months ago.

The company acknowledged a possible linked between the treats and instances of Fanconi-Like Syndrome in small dogs.

Symptoms of that illness include:

• Decreased food consumption, although some may continue to consume the treats to the exclusion of other foods

• Decreased activity or lethargy

• Vomiting

• Diarrhea, sometimes with blood

• Increased water consumption and/or increased urination

In severe cases, blood tests may indicate kidney failure and glucose in the urine may indicate Fanconi-Like Syndrome, the company said.

KraMar officials said it may ask a veterinarian at the University of Sydney to investigate the recent illnesses in the dogs that ate its chicken strips.

The company, however, says there is no scientific evidence linking its chicken strips to Fanconi-Like Syndrome.

KraMar officials also said the company has tested every shipment of the treats for E.coli, salmonella, and melamine. To date, those tests have come back negative.

Nonetheless, the company decided to recall the chicken strips because "KraMar regards the health and welfare of all dogs as paramount."

"This precautionary measure has been taken despite the lack of scientific evidence because of our concerns for the welfare of dogs," said KraMar's CEO Bryan Fouche. "We have been in the market of supplying dog care products for over 50 years and our customers rely on us to maintain the care."

Fouche said his company is exploring the option of moving its production facility for Supa Naturals products to Australia.

KraMar's recall comes a little more than a year after the FDA warned pet owners to be wary of feeding their dogs chicken jerky products, including chicken tenders, strips, and treats.

"There is a potential association between illness in dogs and these products," the Food & Drug Administration (FDA) warned last September. "(The) FDA has received over 70 complaints involving more than 95 dogs experiencing illness that their owners associated with eating chicken jerky products."

FDA officials added, "To date, (the) FDA has not been able to determine a definitive cause for the reported illnesses. The agency has conducted extensive chemical and microbial testing but has not identified any contaminant. Many of the illnesses reported may be the result of causes other than eating chicken jerky."

The FDA said it also received information from The Pet Hospital, a network of pet hospitals across the country, that suggested a possible link between eating chicken jerky products and signs of gastrointestinal illness.

Some of those symptoms included: decreased appetite, decreased activity, or lethargy, vomiting and diarrhea, sometimes with blood, increased water drinking, and urination.

"An individual dog may show some or all of these signs," the FDA said. "Blood tests may indicate kidney failure (increased urea nitrogen and creatinine). Urine tests may indicate Fanconi syndrome (increased glucose). Although most dogs appear to recover, some dogs have died."

At that time, the FDA warned consumers who fed their dogs chicken jerky strips to watch their pets for any of these symptoms.

If their dogs showed any of these problems, pet owners were advised to contact their veterinarians and the FDA.

"Sounds familiar"

A regular ConsumerAffairs.com reader, who heard about this recall, told us today: "Sound familiar?...I can't help but wonder if this is related to the dogs in the US with these type of symptoms (unrelated to the Menu Foods incident)."

Reader Carol V. of Rhode Island was referring to the growing number dogs and cats that have experienced similar-digestive type problems after eating Nutro food.

Consider the problems Kristy V. of Scottsdale, Arizona, told us her dog suffered after eating Nutro food.

"My 18-month-old Weimaraner had been eating Nutro lamb and rice food since he was old enough to chew," she said. "We never had any problems until one day he started vomiting and having explosive diarrhea. Within a couple of days he started having blood in the mucous-filled stool and then he was basically just passing blood. He was very lethargic."

Kristy said her vet ran a few tests, but they didn't come up with any conclusive results.

"The vet suggested an allergy to the food, which didn't really make sense given the severity of his symptoms," Kristy told us. "We tried giving him chicken broth and white rice, which he would eat. But every time we tried to give him the Nutro he wouldn't eat it. It gave us an idea that there might be something wrong with the food, so we switched him to the Science Diet ID food that the vet has suggested."

"Our dog acted like he had been starved, and ate this food ravenously. Within days his stools were solid and he gained the energy that most young Weimaraners should have."

Kristy said she contacted Nutro, but the company failed to respond as promised.

"I am very disappointed with Nutro and the fact that they have not done anything to recall the products given the amount of complaints and similarity of the symptoms from dogs and cats eating this food," she said.

Nutro has repeatedly told ConsumerAffairs.com that its food is 100 percent safe and meets standards set by the FDA, the United States Department of Agriculture, and the Association of American Feed Control Officials.

My vet told me they cannot pin these treats on my pooches bad health. They said she had to have glucose in her urine and that this was never noted as being abnormal.

It states above that they may have a high urea level..... which is what she had.! It doesn't say they have to have an abnormal urine reading. Im so annoyed i just want answers as to what to do etc!

I've stopped feeding them to my shih-tzu's too. They seem to have an addictive quality to them,my dogs cant get enough. I have fed loads of them,maybe 1 or 2 packets a week over the past year SO i dont think the one or two strips you fed will cause a problem.

Does anyone feed the "VitaPet" Jerhi" treats? These are their all time favourites! They are thin redish sticks.These and the chicken jerky are the only 2 treats my dogs will eat.The vitapet is from China aswell....

Yep that is the same thing my dog went through. She loved them. She went off her food and would only eat these treats. I knew something was really wrong when she eventually couldn't even eat these treats in the end. It also seems to have only affected small breeds of dogs. My girl only weight 4.5kgs

I can't believe my bad luck. Monday night I bought somet treats for Evie which I almost NEVER do. Guess what I chose? Kramar chicken breast strips. It said 100% chicken, no added colours preservatives so it looked ok.

I gave her 1 stick Monday night then another Tuesday morning. Tuesday afternoon I heard about a treat recall on the radio. I wasn't too worried, but when I got home I had a look online. Could you believe my surprise when the treats I bought Evie was the ones that got recalled!!! I feel so guilty!

She looks fine. She's vomitted once tonight and had a bit of diarrhea (sp?) today. I don't know if it's coincidence or not. I feel so stressed and guilty about it!

I called the vet and they said I should find out from Kamar how much should be ingested to cause any problems.

Does anybody know? I weighed what was left and she's had about 11g.

Maybe I should take her to the vet tomorrow?

I wouldn't be concerned either. I was the one who posted the link about the chicken treats. I used to give my girl packets and packet off them for around six months. She now has serious pancreas problems and they think possible kidney damage. But as i said she went through alot of packets. I was also sucked in by the 100% chicken no preservatives etc. Poor little darling iam so annoyed i cannot describe how mad iam. She was born with perfectly normal organs now because of these treats they are badly hurt :-(

The brand I'm staying away from is KraMar Supa Naturals.

I now don't need to mention the brand.... Thankyou

Great i been feeding my dogs these's treats...

That is the only brand of Chicken Treats we gave squeak that caused her to go into renal failure.

It didnt effect our other dog, but we're getting her a full check up just incase! but she has a stomach of steel so she will eat anything thats on the ground.. haha, but its better to be safe than sorry.

We dont buy other chicken treats because squeak loves them, and have had to learn the hard way about what poorly made or imported food can do to your dog.

Is squeak a small dog? My vet told me that is is only the smaller breeds of dogs that it seems to affect. I guess they are so small and their organs are so small they cannot handle it? either way knowing what i know now i still wouldn't give it to a larger breed dog either!

How is Squeak now?

Also the vet said, that they get hooked on these treats, they tend to go off their food and the only food they will eat is these treats! It is so terrible, they better hurry up and take them off the shelves. I used to buy my lil Lizzy two packets a week. They were $5 a packet and stated they had no preservatives etc etc, i thought wow i cannot go wrong and she loved them, i pretty much only gave her those treats no others!

The brand I'm staying away from is KraMar Supa Naturals.

Another bit of useful info. I have been told to avoid cheaply painted toys from China as well. They use nasty chemicals on them. My girls plays with toys all of the time. It makes it hard because MOST toys are from China.

I wish i knew all of this before i bought my ll girl!

I personally stay clear of anything saying made in china.

Where are schmackos made?

Yeah i never thought i would buy anything from China, but i honestly didn't know they were from there. It written so small on the back of the packet. What frustrates me is that these treats were so expensive too! They make them sound so healthy and good on the packet!

I only thought food made in China would be sold in those cheap $2 shops!

if the product is being recalled, you can post the name of it.

Also note that if a product is made in Australia there is absolutely no guarantee that it doesn't contain Chinese ingredients (there is a difference between Australian Made and Made with Australian ingredients). Even then, the Australian chicken that went into the treats could have been fed Chinese corn etc.

Unfortunately in Australia we don't require manufacturers to specify where everything comes from.

The product has not been recalled yet and it is sitting on our supermarket shelves still. The Sydney vet society is currently looking into this and are performing there on tests on the products. My vet just told me apparantly the company is in the process of trying to sue the vets..... gotta shake your head don't you!

They are chicken Treats, on the front they say no preservatives etc and if you read the back of the packet in small writing they say 'Made in China' avoid any treats that are made in china!

I spoke with my dogs vet about 5 minutes ago. Iam taking my girl down this afternoon for some follow up testing. I will ask her if i can name the brand as she told me to tell as many people as possible