OzPit

I love this clip. Good song choice too.

I'd like to see Presa's allowed in. They're not an easy dog, not suitable for first-time dog owners, but I reckon they'd go alright. A lot of people only know the breed from the attack on Dianne Whipple in '01, but people don't realise that was the first ever death casued by a Presa/Presa Mix (the dogs that killed Whipple were mixes) in the US. After that attack their popularity went up 400%, which is a bit sick, but I can't find any reports of another Presa attack. But I'm not too google-savvy so if you find any let me know. Dogo's and Tosa's on the other hand, I'm happy for them to be banned. As much as I think the Dogo's are good-looking animals, no way would I like to see them or Tosa's here. Licensing would be great, but if the councils are having a rough time policing the ownership of RB's I have serious doubts about the effectiveness of licensing for Tosa's/Dogo's/Presa's. The responsible people would get licenses, the irresponsible ones wouldn't. And councils are having a hard enough time getting breed ID for APBTs correct, Tosa's and Presa's I reckon they'd really struggle to get ID correctly. Dogo's though are pretty easy to ID in my opinion. Unless it was a really stringent licensing system, like if there was a register keeping track of each dog's owner and location, and random visits by some kind of licensing officials, I doubt it would be very useful. Which is a shame I think.

It can be controlled to an extent but there is the issue of - if you take away the DA then you're taking away a large part of what makes the dog an APBT. A lot of hardcore fanciers of the breed don't want a dog that only looks like an APBT they want a dog that looks & acts like an APBT and DA is a part of that they're willing to deal with. Too true re: we need breeding legalised. The wheat would be separated from the chaff and the public would start seeing the APBT as it's meant to be. A smart, hard-working, stable dog. Not a bloody-minded child-eating weapon of mass destruction like the public now sees them. There are of course breeders doing the right thing at the moment but they're unable to reap the rewards of their work (that is, public recognition) because then they'd have to admit to owning & breeding a RB. They're doing some hard work and it's a darn thankless task.

I don't understand this point. A proper, game-bred APBT is a dog suited to pit fights. That it's a disgusting practice and one which is thankfully outlawed is irrelevant, as is the fact that nobody in their right mind would "advertise" them as such. But it's a fact. The dogs are bred to enjoy fighting another dog and to not give up. Does this mean you do support BSL, because they are bred to enjoy fighting other dogs?

You're assuming the idiots use logic in their decision I reckon they choose APBTs for a few reasons. Popular culture - American rappers for example use a lot of APBTs in their film clips, although now they're leaning more towards the American Bully-type dogs. Public opinion - like it or not, APBT, APBT crosses and dogs wrongly identified as such tend to be the breeds that make headlines when they attack. The media's creating mass hysteria when it comes to these dogs and these idiots buy into it, regardless of the fact that many of the dogs labelled "Pit Bulls" aren't that at all. They just hear what the media wants them to hear; that the dogs are weapons. And that's attractive to some morons. Also (and I think this is the big one) "rarity" (if it can be called such) - you don't have to be a rocket scientist to know the dogs are banned in the Oz states. What an ego boost, getting your hands on one of those "illegal" animals. Bonus points if it's one of the "rare" and "crazy" "red-nose pitties". They're going for shock value. They COULD walk an aggressive GSD down the street and get a few glances from Joe Public. Or, they could strap their freaky, muscle-bound hybrid Pit Bull type (with a red nose!! How risque!) into a stupid metal-studded leather harness, walk it down the street and enjoy the twisted validation that comes from having everybody cross the road to avoid them. The public's not as wary of the proven protection breeds as they are about anything that MIGHT or might not be an APBT.

- Richard F. Stratton, "The Book of The American Pit Bull Terrier", 1981 An APBT indeed has an "instinctive trait" to be aggressive - towards dogs. There is a lot of evidence attesting to the APBT's stable nature around people, just as there is a lot of evidence attesting to its inclination to be extremely DA. Unfortunately, due to their sheer power and inherent "gameness", they have the potential to do serious damage to a human just like the other powerful breeds mentioned (GSDs, rotties, dobes). The problem lies with the idiots who misunderstand the breed's true nature and churn out unstable puppies from unstable parents and peddle them to other idiots who are either unwilling or unable to properly manage the dogs they are given. Cue maltreatment, a lack of socialisation and training, and encouragement of aggression. These dogs then become ticking time bombs, as would any other breed if treated the same way. APBTs have a certain "image" to certain people so there's a disproportionately large number of these dogs being treated in ways that can create instability and aggression. And the stable ones don't make headlines, so the general public doesn't know they exist. A properly bred & cared for APBT is IMO one of the least aggressive dogs you could encounter and a poorly bred & cared for APBT would have me heading for the hills in an instant. It's all in the way they're bred and handled.

Logan City Council (QLD) 22-Point Checklist (from www.victimsofbsl.com) 1. Head - medium in length and is brick wedge shaped 2. Head shape - has a skull shape which is flat and widest at the ears with prominent cheeks free from wrinkles 3. Muzzle - square, wide and deep 4. Muzzle - well pronounced jaws, displaying strength 5. Upper teeth - meet tightly over lower teeth (scissor bite) 6. Ears - set high on the head and free from wrinkles 7. Eyes - round to almond 8. Eyes - set far apart, low down on the skull 9. Nose - wide open flared nostrils 10. Neck - muscular and slightly arched 11. Neck - tapers from shoulder to head 12. Neck - free from looseness of skin 13. Shoulders - strong and muscular with wide sloping shoulder blades 14. Back - short and strong 15. Back - slightly sloping from withers to rump 16. Back - slightly arched at the loins with the loins slightly tucked 17. Chest - deep, but not too broad, with well wide sprung ribs 18. Tail - short in comparison to the size of the dog, tapers to a fine point and not carried over the back and dose not extend beyond the hocks 19. Legs - medium to large, round boned and reasonably strong 20. Feet – of medium size should be in proportion to leg size 21. Thighs - well developed muscles 22. Coat - short and stiff to touch 23. Height - from withers to ground 24. Common photo match Dogs are graded on each point, given a score between 0 and 3. Not sure what the "minimum score" is to have the dog declared. Any dog which fits these criteria can be declared. Not sure how many councils in Oz use this system. No. The owners are given a set amount of time to comply with the Dangerous Dog laws of their state/local council (DD collars, enclosures, desexing, etc). If they don't, THEN the dog is euthanased. (edited: multiple quote)

Many people think that the APBT can be gametested thru weight-pull, springpole, etc; I have to disagree. The concept of "gameness" wrt the APBT is directly related to the dogs desire & willingness to keep doing the task it was developed for in the pit, even when critically injured, tired, etc; keeping in mind the dogs were perfectly able to escape the pit or refuse to fight(hence the curs). Weightpull/springpole can test determination, strength, tenacity, etc; but the only true way to test an APBTs "gameness" is in the pit, with another dog, otherwise you just have a determined, strong, tenacious dog, not a game one. Nobody would dream of doing it these days (except in USA). So - you could test other APBT traits in weightpull, springpole, etc, but they are traits common to many breeds. The defining trait of the pit bulldog can't be tested for. Heres a link to a debate on the topic : link WRT "whether the dog would chase" - many dogs will "chase". I believe the ability to successfully "hunt" is different. Not having a go here, by the way, I realise testing breeds for their original uses is not always realistically possible. My pov is that when we can't "properly" test a dogs ability, we're going to lose the essence of the breed and end up with a watered down version, like we see today.

Ha. Let's say sydking's idea of responsible dog ownership (without delving into responsible, law-abiding APBT ownership) involves buying a buckskin/liver pup (because it's a rednose, and they're the best breed of pit bull, didn't you know? ) without anywhere to keep it, asking for advice (and then refusing to accept it) and wondering, can he crate train the pup using a milk crate? Yeh the dogs are here, that's no reason to support every neville nobody who buys one. Perhaps visit some global APBT forums and see the idiocy sydking is espousing there - and then, come back and defend him armed with that failsafe ammunition. Don't try to claim that anybody in this subforum is being brainwashed by the media...everybody here has a good effing clue what they're talking about. do you even own an American pitbull terrier? PPS has way more BB experience than you could accumulate in a lifetime, I'd say. Just because someone's not declaring ownership left right and centre doesnt mean they don't know what they're talking about. That aside, I'd argue that even if PPS had never owned an APBT he/she has more knowledge and common sense wrt the breed than many idiots who DO own one. Papered ASTs don't have to pass any tests, they're safe from BSL at the moment...?? Refer to my previous comment for more information. Laugh Out Loud. I smell trolls approaching with the Easter School Holidays. Keep human/race issues out of it, as well as suggestions that long-established members here don't have jobs, mortgages, or families. AFAIK, anybody who is a true, serious, die-hard fan of the breed & doesn't want to comply with the regs - move to the ACT. You choose to own the breed, then you choose to deal with the implications. Why endanger a dog's life just so you can have a chance to say "Well I beat the legislation?" You choose the breed, you either comply with the regs or move to the ACT - and do your fighting WHILST being responsible. It's not that hard. Ok? Good, thanks, take care "hun". PS. I strongly doubt you recognise irony, so just for your benefit: My closing statement (prior to my postscript) was ironic. Perhaps you'd be taken more seriously if you could spell properly; other members have already sed this. My use of "sed" was also ironic. Text speak isn't really appreciated here on an adult forum. K Thanx bYe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111

Youre making a fool of yourself here mate, why can't somebody who has one breed of dogs also like any other breed or know anything about any other breed, when you owned staffs did you hate APBTs, do you hate staffs now you have an APBT? Probably not, now stop trying to insult other people and worry about what youre going to do with a dog you have nowhere to keep and don't want to register. And the saying is what is boils down to, not what is BALLS down to, youre showing your age there mate. A few more years at school oughta fix that. thats pretty much what it balls down to, well put

poodlefan does know it, so do I...unless you were lying when you said "My name is ****. I'm an 18-year-old male from Australia..." on a different forum.

sydking no offence but I've seen your posts on other APBT forums, why are you so keen on getting around the rules? WHat youve said on other forums suggests the dog is no more than a status symbol. Register the dog as what it is and contain it properly. Registereing it as an AST is irresponsible and I think only makes things worse for people with papered ASTs. I have said it before - you got the dog, you have the dog, suck it up and register the dog as what it is, and contain it properly. Also I can not see where the "negativity" is. It's the truth.

Well said. He wanted an APBT, he got an APBT, and now he can be a responsible APBT owner. no he should get money together and abide by the law for the dogs sake. Socialise it, obedience train it and make it a model citizen. Not hide it, falsify its breeding and chain it in the backyard so it cant jump the fence.