Agility Dogs

I agree with everyone else. Balancing act. My last two dogs have been out and about from the day they came - avoiding high traffic/risk areas like dog parks and parks in general, but going to agility trials, beaches (where the nasties get washed away) etc etc.

I take the view that my other dogs are out and about and will bring stuff home anyway so the puppies may as well join us since I'm not going to quarantine the older guys. :)

I get what you are saying, but take heart.......

It doesn't always end up as a disaster. If someone had seen me with my first pup I'm sure that they would have had the same thoughts that you do. I was clueless, our house/yard was totally inadequate for what we had taken on and to be frank we were just dreadful owners. Now nine years later I have 4 of the little dudes and have been lucky enough to be offered dogs by a variety of people who breed border collies. (FTR, I haven't taken a dog that I've been offered, I sought out someone with a litter that I particularly wanted a puppy from. ;) )

We also have a guy at our club who is so far out of his depth with a working mix that it is sad, (why a rescue would have given her to me is just beyond me, but anyway....). He's worked incredibly hard over the last few months and is starting to enjoy his dog and see light at the end of the tunnel.

On the flipside I've seen people who in theory are well suited to a dog make a complete mess of it/their life.

It doesn't always end up like you think it might, but yeah, I also see a lot of disasters waiting to happen - for both people and dogs.

In Border Collies the big problem is that the ANKC standard is so restrictive that it is limiting our gene pool. Smooth coat is allowed all over the world but ANKC will only allow rough coat. At the moment 8 of the top 10 bcs in the UK are smooth coat but Australian breeders can't make use of them. Pricked ears are permitted all over the world but ANKC won't recognise them, so gene pool is limited further. Then the big one is colour. The rest of the world recognises any colour (with white not dominating) but ANKC only allows a selection of colours.

But there are plenty of main registered BC's with pricked ears in Aust. and plenty of main registered non allowable colours too. It seems acceptable amongst the community to main register them and breed from them...they just don't show them.

There is a huge gap between working border lines and show border lines here, but is that not the case overseas, then?

I think its even more the case overseas. The BC's shown overseas are predominantly Aust lines & their deviation to the original working dog seems even more exaggerated.

Yep but its still the limited register in Australia which stops you from being able to breed them. Take away the limited register or allow dogs which are not permissible according to the standard in the show ring and as long as the dog is of the same breed and parents are pure bred you could still use them to breed with.

That is pretty much what happens anyway in BCs, despite the limited register

The difference is that most other Kennel clubs will recognise legitimate ABCA/ISDS pedigrees and include them in the register. Aust won't.

I have owned 2 main register BC's with ABCA/ISDS pedigrees. Has this changed now? ANKC registered both of mine.

Yes I know of many smooth coated MR border collies and plenty more with pricked ears or incorrectly registered colours. If anyone was to ever alert the ANKC to the particular dog though they can have their MR stripped.

Vickie your girls are the same as ours. MR and also ISDS. The reason they get ANKC registration is because their parents have KC registration overseas. ANKC will only MR register them if they have another KC registration, whereas other countries will give them KC registration them if they have ISDS only, doesn't have to be KC in another country. Eg we bred a few litters that were only sporting registered in Aus but could be exported to another country with ISDS registration. That ISDS registration would allow them to get KC registration in the new country (as other countries recognise isds). Then they could be reimported back to Aus with their new KC registration and be given MR here. Its really stupid...

This. :)

Snap is a good example of this. If he were to go to NZ or just about anywhere else the KC would register him. In AU though he is on the sporting register, to me it's not an issue because I know the lines he comes from and am happy with that, but it just seems a bit silly.

Re the Border Collie, it sounds as though even that although Australia is the official country of development, overseas countries allow a lot of variants that the country of development does not. There is a huge gap between working border lines and show border lines here, but is that not the case overseas, then?[/size]

The gap is just as wide over seas, in fact some of my friends in the US suggest it is wider as the Aust Show BC's seem to have retained more of their working working ability than in other countries.

The difference is that most other Kennel clubs will recognise legitimate ABCA/ISDS pedigrees and include them in the register. Aust won't. Legitimate colours and coats are included in the register, Australia restricts the colours/coats it will allow. So either a. we miss out on some great dogs or b. dogs are registered to fit the standard.

And that's an interesting comment about development of the BC. I always thought BC's were of Scottish descent. Perhaps it was the show standard that was developed in Australia which is why some of the true working dogs are excluded? ;)

it looks to have all worked out for the best for your puppy. I hope our tests come back the way you want them to and you get back on track as well.

Something that struck me about your original post and might have contributed to the reaction you got though is that you are taking your dog to someone else's home. Despite this you (with all the best intentions) are stamping your feet and demanding rules are in place. Do you think that maybe working with your friend and getting them on side so that they support you and help their friends understand the rules might be a better idea?

I find that when I approach things in that way they tend to work out better. Afterall it is their house and my dog is just a visitor.

Just a thought.

This little girl was 3 when she started to go grey. She's 9 and still going OK. ;)

Hopefully it's just a bit of fun because trying to rank dogs on intelligence is such a ridiculous concept. They are bred for purpose - intelligence is a human concept IMO.

As for border collies - I've got 4. All are incredibly different, think for themselves at varying degrees.....largely a reflection of my progression as a trainer. ;)

It's good for a bit of a giggle, but that's about it.

The nanana one you're changing from left arm to right arm around the jump wing?

And he's doing blind crosses are us? Or I'm not changing arms without a proper cross? Or just running wide cos you're leaving as he goes round?

Anyway lovely work. I'm still trying to persuade mine to do distance handling and she's over 6yo now.

LOL. The nanana one I'm sending him with the left and fronting (effectively) to put him into the tunnel. He's just totally blowing me off to go and find a toy at that point. By the end we had him listening. I've done a little too much on toy drive - hehehehe.... This is about the 4th or 5th time he's seen an upright so I was pretty pleased all in all.

When the time comes he will drive to infinity and beyond - I really liked how he took the jump at the end once I finally got my words out. Timing is a whole new world with this little dude. My guys aren't exactly slow - 2 of the 3 dogs I run make it around at better than 5 m/s, but this guy is in another universe. It's just so much fun learning together.

Thought I'd share what Snap and I have been doing this week. I just love this little dude. He's growing in strength and confidence by the week. I think we will need some pretty solid foundations if running with him is going to be anything other than a complete train wreck. Just love him to bits!! My favourite bit is when he drives away from me to the toy and then takes himself back to line up for his next go!

Nanana Fail - the last 15 seconds of the clip we almost get it right. LOL.

Jump grid 1

Jump grid 2

Sorry, what is your point in posting that video? (Denis, not MrsRB!)

Have to admit to kind of wondering the same thing?

I'm just a little proud after agility last weekend. :)

We had 11 runs (11 + 1 Not for comp) with 3 dogs, all in all in the same height class at an our ADAA comp on the Gold Coast.

Xena just had the 3 comp runs - we did Open Agility as NFC so I could do some ongoing panel beating on her contacts. She came away with 3 from 3. 2nd in advanced agility, first in open jumping and a Q with her partner in the pairs event.

Wikki came home with 3 from 4. She suffered handler malfunction in Open Agility, but managed third in both Advanced agility and Open Jumping, plus Q'd in Pairs with her partner. (Jumping up one height on her usual class.)

Duke......well......Duke isn't my dog, but I've started running him this year. He runs VERY differently to my dogs - has a tendancy to run long and cast wide, more because his owner has allowed it in her training than because of his ability to turn and run tight. (Not talking out of school and she's amazed and wrapped that we are fixing it.) Regardless he is very well trained and we just keep getting better all the time. He also came home with 3 from 4. First in Advanced Agility, First in Open Agility and a Q in Pairs. (He too jumped one height up.) Just one small training gap I wasn't aware of stood between us and a perfect night - we took the wrong end of a tunnel in Open jumping.

Can't wait for this weekend - I'm taking all three away for a 3 day trial. Just hoping it isn't too damp!

The other thing I do with the Mock Trials, is I don't have a SCT. Instead I put a maximum time in the ring of 2 minutes. Not only does this stop someone going out & taking up ten minutes getting their dog around the course, but it works in reverse. If they want to just go out & practice something special, then they have a whole 2 minutes to use up, if they wish. They can't use food, but can use toys :)

GREAT IDEA!!!! IMO If you can't get something done in two minutes I think it kind of classifies as lumping or drilling depending. ;) That's really sending the right message to the guys.

He's going great AD What is the idea of the pivot box & the two jump bumps??

Thanks. I just love him to bits. He's going to be scary fast! (Is already, but we aren't running yet....)

The pivot box to start with is a shaping exercise.

Then once you've got that you add in rotating with their font end on the box and back end just walking in circles. Then the bumps get added in.

Purpose of the whole exercise is to teach them to think where their back end is and to use back end and front end independently. Basically another body awareness exercise.

Then we also do stuff like this.

I tend to reward with his head too high when I'm using food.

Thought I'd share a couple more videos from this week. Not all perfect, but it does give us things to work on! Mr is six months. He's going to be BIG!

Tunnel and wit wit - bit of a fail.

One jump wrap.

Pivot box with jump bumps.

Restrained Recalls with a blind.

What a great idea - hopefully the Easter weather gods smile on you!! I love the courses, they are a good mix of letting the dogs opening up and a couple of challenges to make the dogs and handlers think.

Hey, just a thought that might be useful - you've got some really difficult approaches to the DW in there. It might make things a bit nicer if you moved the jump prior to the DW out a bit so that it shapes the approach/straightens it out a bit. Ideally you don't really want a dog having to turn to get onto the DW or hitting them at an angle - quick dogs in particular are at risk of heading straight across them and causing injury.

Can't wait to hear how the night goes!! Have a blast!

I stillwould have concerns with the approach from 7 tunnel to the 8 tire, I think. Would probably have to look at it on the ground, but I'm pretty picky about angles of entry an exit with tyres.

Me too Tassie. Some organisations would not allow that angle on a tyre. Easy enough to make a bit safer by rotating the tyre so that the approach is straight on. I'd never ask a dog to perform a tyre as part of a serp.

I love the rest of the challenges - they'd be a great test of the puppy's understanding. There are some very lucky people in your classes to have an instructor spend so much time and mental energy putting things together for them. :)

I've been videoing our training sessions each day this week. Mostly to help the newer members at our club realise you don't need to drill your dogs into the ground to end up with well trained agility dogs. I thought I'd share them here in case anyone else was interested. The young dog in the videos is 6 months old, the others are 5 and 8 years.

It is also designed to demonstrate you don't need to use equipment all the time - it's about relationship and foundations. :)

Sunday

Saturday - no training, just hanging out with the kids at home. (Our niece and nephew. We don't have kids.)

Friday

Please don't pick my training to bits - I'm already critiquing it and making changes.

Hope this helps!

Border River Pet Resort at Morayfield. I've left my totally spoiled two toy poodles there on two occasions and been very happily impressed :)

http://www.borderriverpetresort.com.au

I've read very good things about this kennel. :)

We've used them twice, but won't use them again. Generally they are good and the dogs come back in good condition, however last time after I left specific written instructions not to run my boy with other dogs we came to pick him up and found him in a yard with at least 4 other dogs.

Border River Pet Resort at Morayfield. I've left my totally spoiled two toy poodles there on two occasions and been very happily impressed :)

http://www.borderriverpetresort.com.au

I've read very good things about this kennel. :)

We've used them twice, but won't use them again. Generally they are good and the dogs come back in good condition, however last time after I left specific written instructions not to run my boy with other dogs we came to pick him up and found him in a yard with at least 4 other dogs.

LisaCC - a little depends on your handling system and your dog's stride length. With H360 we aim to be ahead of our dogs as much as possible so I would probably approach it like this:

4: Jump cue (ie take it in full extension; dog on left)

5: Send to the tunnel and get out of there (don't baby sit); blind cross on tunnel exit

6: Na Na Na cue (ie take the back of the jump and wrap the upright tightly)

7: Jump cue; front cross to indicate turn

8: Sprinkler cue (ie collect and turn)

Hope that helps :)

That is how i would have approached it also.

Me too, except I'd probably lalala blind at 6 rather than front. :)

Nice! Looks like fun.

One breeder has grown to love updates on the dog that she bred. Initially I didn't hear back that much, but kept on sending the updates.

One still gets the updates, but I never hear back - I figure we all have busy lives so I keep sending them anyway.

One loves to be very involved in 'her' dogs lives and responds to any correspondence and stalks pics on facebook. :)

The foundations class is VERY mindful of the young dogs. I've got my young BC (VERY leggy and we are being incredibly careful with him) in it. The focus is really on core strength, relationship building and strong foundations. He is almost 6 months and hasn't seen a jump with a bar on it yet, hasn't been on a contact and has done a very limited amount of tight twisting and turning at anything other than a walk.

Hope you see you out there some day!!

Not obedience, but Maria at Red Dog Agility (you can find her on facebook) runs excellent puppy classes, they do have an agility focus though, not obedience.

The obedience dog club of Brisbane at Oxley gets some pretty good reviews, but I haven't trained there personally. I do know a number of their instructors and like how they work with their dogs.

I'd ask a lot of in depth questions of the private kennel based providors out your way, unless they have changed their tune in the last couple of years. ;)

More flies with honey.

9 years ago I was one of the great unwashed who didn't understand and didn't want to know. If I'd been lucky enough to have a breeder help me see that papered dogs weren't just for show (to be fair I didn't look in the right place ) it would have saved me a whole heap of heartache and money.

Now I'll talk to anyone (I'm not a breeder) about the virtues of good breeding and how important doing the right health tests are. Sometimes I feel like I'm banging my head against a wall, but even if I convert one person's thinking it has been a good year. ;)

Unfortunately the 'puppy buyer chair', while funny to those on the inside is how the 'industry' is viewed by many and exactly why people end up going to places you'd all rather them not. Polite, informed conversation will always yield better results than an (perceived) interrogation where many people will just give the right answers.

FTR, my dogs now all come from people I admire and respect as breeders. It's been a fun nine years.