GardenofEden

GardenofEden - you might like to go back to the original post and have another read... the dogs do not belong to the OP, but to a workmate.

The OP feels they can only handle the two dogs that don't require extra surgical procedures... and that's a whole lot better than sitting back and doing nothing...

T.

Yes I realise that the dogs belonged to the OP's workmate. The OP was also contemplating taking on all 4 dogs so why not weigh up other options pertaining to the two dogs with the cherry eye problem instead of wanting to put them to sleep ??????

Well why don't you offer to take those 2 dogs on? Instead of causing confrontation. Both in the same state.

If I could I most certainly would! I have a few dogs of my own and my hands are full so I can no longer foster any more dogs but a few of those that I own are rescue dogs that would have otherwise been put to sleep. I have 2 blind dogs, a deaf dog, one with a cherry eye problem that cannot be handled as he bites every time he is picked up but is otherwise healthy and happy. If I was in a situation where I could have fostered these two dalmatians with the cherry eye problem I would have done so gladly without contemplating the idea of having them put to sleep. Where there is a will there is a way.

I would like to emphasise that I have never attempted to rehome my deaf, blind and cherry eye dogs; they're very happy here and will stay here till their dying day.

What gorgeous dogs! Congratulations for sticking by Tango and for your perseverance. Those photos were an absolute treat.

koalathebear,

Excellent post. I agree with your points. I too find that people often tend to make direct comparisons between animal treatment in Australia to places like China and fail to take into account that there is a lack of legislation and education about the issue on a state level. Things are not going to change without changes first on a government level so I think it's unfair for others to always waggle the finger and take a superior, moral western stance.

I think we're all lucky to live in a country like Australia where animal rights and legislation in the meat industry is standard and the norm. We grow up being used to this and sometimes forget that not every other country has similar laws in place. China has a long way to go in terms of both human and animal rights but from what I can see, it has come a long way since it's closed, communist days.

I didn't want to mention this at first but the reason why I jump up at these kinds of threads is because I am from a Chinese background so generalized statements affect me personally. It's like reading/watching stereotyped ideals of yourself and thinking, "but hey, I'm not like that at all!". I personally find it offensive and I am tired of constantly having to defend myself against people who I don't really believe have a full understanding of the issue to begin with. I was brought up here so I have adopted all sorts of western beliefs and cultural habits but even my extended family still in China don't eat dog. In fact, none of my mother's friends or other chinese people that I know eat dog meat. It's NOT the norm. And if anyone actually has ever been to a major city of China, they will find that the people there tend to be quite caring towards animals and pets in general. Shanghai has an insane amount of dog-owners nowadays. Of course, I don't mean that just because more people are owning dogs it means that there are not problems but I have noticed a significant change in people's attitude towards pets in general. Of course, none of this is ever mentioned so other people (like many on this thread who have never even visited China) have misinformed, one-sided information and are more akin to label chinese people in general as being this way or that.

And thereby lies the difference, you were brought up here in australia; I have chinese friends and think the world of them, their pets are treated like royalty. I won't dispute your point in that your extended family still living in China will not eat dog, they must be one of the few exceptions. Chinese people living in the western world and of a younger generation are absolutely awesome people, pity I cannot say the same about the older generation whether living in China or the western world. I used to breed dogs and never had any hesitations in placing a pup with a chinese person/couple/family.

As so far as China having a long way to go in bettering their view on animal rights - well, it is the younger generation that is carrying on with barbaric methods of slaughtering due to false beliefs, beliefs that have been passed on by the older generation and in which they themselves will end up passing on. Maybe in the next 200 years if we are lucky and only if the western world got together and demanded a change but I cannot see that ever taking place.

I think people always get a little bit hot under the collar about this issue because dogs are lovable I think the fundamental problem lies with the fact that as a developing nation, China has yet to reach optimum standards regarding animal protection. It's not just dogs - it's animals generally. That's not to say that there isn't animal cruelty and suffering in places like Australia - but we have legislation and more generalised societal disapproval of the mistreatment of animals. People who think that pigs, chickens and other animals don't suffer before they're humanely killed in Australia are just deluding themselves. If you really want to push it, who's to say that vegetarians are in the right, either - no one has proved that vegies don't suffer?

I lived and worked in China from 2005 until last year and before that, studied and travelled there quite frequently. I do believe that it's wrong to assume that all Chinese like to eat dog or endangered animals blah blah. It's kind of like the generalisation that Koreans like to eat dog meat. I had a lot of Korean classmates and friends and I think only ONE of them ate dog meat and that was occasionally and from some traditional believe that it gave strength when one was feeling poorly. Most of my Korean friends said that only 'old people' ate dog meat. Dog meat also wasn't rampant on the streets of Beijing - you had to go looking for it.

I'm a dog lover, I have a puppy, I would never ever eat dog meat - but I don't condemn the eating of dog meat per se. I just wouldn't do it myself, just the same way my brother would never eat turtles because he loves turtles, my mother in law would never eat mutton or lamb because she loves sheep and so forth. There are plenty of people who are horrified that people eat pigs (intelligent), rabbits and lambs (cute), kangaroo (a national animal on our coat of arms!!!)

Dog meat is still eaten by some but to be honest, like many things in China, it's the beat-up in the West that gives it a certain notoriety/popularity. For instance, you can buy live, writhing scorpions on skewers in Wangfujing Food Street. In my whole time there, I never saw a Chinese person buying and eating those - it was always laughing/goofing around foreigners (lots of Aussies!) taking photos, buying them and frequently even eating them for the camera. If it wasn't for the foreign tourists making such a fuss over the bizarre foods there, I doubt the food street would still even sell those bizarre kebabs. Similarly the furore about dog meat. I'm told that the dogs are specially bred for eating - it's not that they come and take Fido from your yard and gobble him. In Gansu Province, we had the choice of eating camels and donkeys in Mongolia it was tough old goat, in Xian there was dog in the street - I think culturally in many of those places, people ate the meat that was available. Revolting as it seems, I have no problem with it as long as the animal doesn't suffer.

I think people should focus more on the treatment of the animal than the animal itself. For instance, I was extremely irate to learn about the puppies being sold on the street. Here we know about puppy mills and backyard breeders, it's a LOT worse in China. Quite frequently you'll see guys on street corners selling the most adorable little balls of fur and cuteness that you will ever see. You should never buy from them - this article tells you why - dodgy people dye the poor puppies so that they're the most popular colours. The puppies that don't perish while being boiled will frequently die soon after because of their ordeal. That sort of thing can only be stopped through education - increasing of public awareness. That's why I think the message should be more about: "Don't treat animals cruelly" than "don't eat dog or other cute animals."

Also, for those who seem to think that 'Chinamen' are cruel - I went to the Siberian Tiger Park when I was in Harbin for the ice lantern festival. At that park, for RMB1,000 you could feed a live cow to the tigers - watching them rip it apart. For RMB500, a live pig - all the way down to a live chicken. The average Chinese can't afford to spend that kind of money feeding a tiger - it's mostly foreigners who go there and do it for a lark. In fact, while I was there I watched an Australian family buy a chicken, laugh and take photos as they dangled the unfortunate animal from a stick and watch it be ripped apart by a tiger. I'm not vegetarian, I eat chicken but I was pretty disgusted by the glee that they took in it. Of course I'm not saying that all Aussies are like that - I think I'm just trying to say that cruelty to animals isn't a national trait, it's still an individual characteristic.

I hear what you are saying but still insist that in China it is more of a national trait. It's not a case of one dog here and there, it is a case of millions of dogs and thereby lies the difference. Millions of dogs skinned alive, not just one here and there (not that I am pardoning it, as no dogs should be skinned alive!). What I am trying to say is.....that your examples of a particular family holding a chook up in the air for the tiger to snatch it, may very well take place but they are an oddity and not a common occurrence. BTW, hope that family and others like it receive its share of negative karma!

GardenofEden - you might like to go back to the original post and have another read... the dogs do not belong to the OP, but to a workmate.

The OP feels they can only handle the two dogs that don't require extra surgical procedures... and that's a whole lot better than sitting back and doing nothing...

T.

Yes I realise that the dogs belonged to the OP's workmate. The OP was also contemplating taking on all 4 dogs so why not weigh up other options pertaining to the two dogs with the cherry eye problem instead of wanting to put them to sleep ??????

GardenofEden, perhaps you should applaude someone for putting their time and money out there to help two dogs who are not their own. The OP is offering two dogs a chance - instead of having 4 dogs pts.

Woodbyne I wish you all the luck with the dogs.

I would be the 1st one to applaud someone wanting to help someone else's dogs, dogs that are no longer wanted but to contemplate having them put down BEFORE trying other avenues is taking short cuts as far as I am concerned. One would think that with the internet at everyone's fingertips that the OP would have researched information pertaining to the condition "cherry eye" instead of taking the quicker easy way out and have them destroyed.

I also didn't particularly like the attitude that if the other two dogs show signs of stress she would also have them destroyed.

Aggression is one thing but stress is quite another.

Surely you must have more heart than sentencing two dogs to death simply because they have cherry eye? should humans that don't conform to a Miss World or Mr. Universe pageant be killed? Perhaps you should consider surrendering them to a dalmation rescue organization. You seem to have a take it or leave it attitude. Having the dogs put to sleep without seeing if someone would be prepared to take them on is simply cutting corners.

Firstly, they're Dalmatians not Dalmations, secondly it's highly unlikely that any rescue organisation will take on any dog that needs a costly medical procedure. There are far too many dogs out there needing help, and the funds would be better spent helping them. It's not cutting corners, it's called being realistic.

Oh so sorry for getting the spelling wrong. Are u going to make a point of correcting everyone's spelling mistake? lol

Ok so i went to visit the dogs. Two have what looks to me to be cherry eye when i get them i'll get teh vet to check so after reading about it i think those two will have to be put to sleep apparently it isn't painful but the look isn't good and its going to be hard enough to house two that look ok and i think i'll be better to concentrate on the other two. Dalmatian rescue is full at the moment but happy to advertise them. So looks like i'll take 2 in 2 weeks but if they are too stressed i think the kindest thing is to put them too sleep if really really bad. If they are ok with people we can work on the environmental side of things but can't have fear biters they didn't appear to be. Oh well i'll keep you posted

Surely you must have more heart than sentencing two dogs to death simply because they have cherry eye? should humans that don't conform to a Miss World or Mr. Universe pageant be killed? Perhaps you should consider surrendering them to a dalmation rescue organization. You seem to have a take it or leave it attitude. Having the dogs put to sleep without seeing if someone would be prepared to take them on is simply cutting corners. I had a shih tzu that had a tear gland that had prolapsed (cherry eye) and I found that massaging it with eye ointment and then pushing it in eventually worked and the gland never prolapsed again; there is no guarantee that this will succeed in all cases but it's darn well worth the try! AND what do you mean that you would consider putting the other two dalmations without the cherry eye issue to sleep if they appear stressed? There is a chance that they may be stressed when they find themselves in a strange environment, time and patience is the key and you clearly don't have much patience. If you are intent in taking them in then give them the best chance at a new life and do NOT take shortcuts. The only reason you have to have them put down is if they appear to be AGGRESSIVE, aside from that NO EXCUSES ENTERED INTO!

Anyone wanting to give dogs a 2nd chance should be taking them in on that premise otherwise do NOT bother.

Home Treatment Options

# Surgical options aimed at treating cherry eye can range up to $1,000 depending on what part of the country you live in. There is a massage option that can possibly work to correct canine cherry eye. Dog owners that report success using massage and antibiotic ointments also indicate that they began the process as soon as they noticed the cherry eye. The longer the dog has the condition, the less likely it is that the gland will go back into place without surgical support. The massage method involves gently closing the dog's outer eyelid and then carefully pushing without using much pressure on the area at the corner of the eye where the cherry is located. The idea is to push gently toward the dog's nose in an attempt to pop the gland back into place. Some dog owners report success after three to four massage sessions; others indicated it took more than a week of massage. Many used warm compresses to ease the process. Frequently, the massage solution is only temporarily and the gland pops back out. However, some dog owners report success after repeated tries. A word of caution is necessary to new dog owners. The area being massaged is very delicate and mishandling can result in damage to the eyeball if not done properly.

Aussie Shepherds are my breed!

What's not to love?

What initially drew me to the breed was the coat and the colours. I love that each Aussie can have such a range of marking.

What is going to keep me in the breed is their personalities. I love that they just adore being with you, they can be go go go all day with you if that's what you want to do but they love to curl up and snooze at your feet if you study all day. I love the fact they get along well with other dogs, teaching them news things is easy and the can be trusted off lead. I love the whole body wiggles that occur when they are happy.

That face is to die for What an absolute stunner! I also love the fact that their entire body wiggles everytime they wag their tail, lol. I also love their intelligence and willingness to please and they do indeed adore being with you whether you are on the move or simply vegging out.

Also love the golden retriever, amiable, affable, obedient, smart and beautiful with its long blonde flowing coat.

German shepherd for its undying devotion and intelligence.

Boxer for its sense of humour. Also adore japanese spitz and the cavalier.

Will definitely be putting a lock on the gate. I'll also be talking to the realestate on Monday in case it was the landlord.

I have padlocks on every gate that has access to the backyard, call me paranoid but it makes me feel a lot safer as I'm home alone most of the time.

Do you have a copy of your lease yet?

Well done. You are not paranoid, you are just taking the necessary precautions.

Yes, it's a disturbing and unlovely topic.

However, how many of us have ever been literally starving? Why are we not equally repulsed by those in Europe who eat horse-flesh?

We all adore our dogs, but this doesn't mean that whole world does, too.

Being strictly logical, why is it worse to eat a dog than, say, a little lamb? or a milk-fed tiny calf which is sold as veal?

Cultural differences are just that: the best that we can do is to try and ensure that all animals are well-kept and killed as humanely as possible.

My dogs are very special and important to me. My family's farm animals are to them, too, but many are still sent to the abattoir for us all to eat.

It isn't a case of China eating dog meat due to starvation. Dog meat is served in 4 star restaurants. IT is not the poor that like to eat a live chimpanzee's brain either. That nation has no conscience when it comes to the wellbeing of animals. It is a sad reality.

It's not so much that dogs are eaten but that they are tortured before dying.

They suffer a horrific death and pain inflicting is deliberate. The belief of their oppressors is that the more they suffer the tastier their meat would be.

and it is a well-known fact; therefore I am appauled that

the topic was discussed in such a lighthearted manner by the 2 presenters.

EXACTLY

I find it even more distasteful that posters here can find it in themselves to make excuses for the Chinese! IT is just pathetic to highlight the point that we also eat meat...blah blah blah. Yes we eat meat but we do not, thank God, adopt such atrocious ways to go about it!

Do people really think that what those dogs go through is worse than what our factory farmed animals go through in this very country???

Both cases are despicable but everyone should understand that the animal on their plate went through immense sickness, pain, suffering and torture before it got there.

That is utter nonsense. Don't even begin comparing the way our animals end up on our plate to the way that animals end up on the Chinaman's plate! There is no comparison. We do NOT set out to INTENTIONALLY cause agonising pain due to unfounded beliefs. We do NOT skin animals whilst still alive. Make all the excuses you want but in the end it is just a load of baloney.

Yes, it's a disturbing and unlovely topic.

However, how many of us have ever been literally starving? Why are we not equally repulsed by those in Europe who eat horse-flesh?

We all adore our dogs, but this doesn't mean that whole world does, too.

Being strictly logical, why is it worse to eat a dog than, say, a little lamb? or a milk-fed tiny calf which is sold as veal?

Cultural differences are just that: the best that we can do is to try and ensure that all animals are well-kept and killed as humanely as possible.

My dogs are very special and important to me. My family's farm animals are to them, too, but many are still sent to the abattoir for us all to eat.

The fact of the matter is that in AUSTRALIA it is NOT customary to eat dog and these radio announcers would be only too aware of this and are showing total disrespect to the AUSTRALIAN community. Dogs here in this country are regarded as pets so therefore to turn the subject into a culinary delight and to top it all off LAUGH at this is absolutely OBNOXIOUS!

HOPE those two announcers end up with diarrhea for a week or two.

ANOTHER thing - China is well known to be one of the most cruelest nations in the entire globe! If they are so famished that they need to resort to eating dog meat (which, by the way....is actually considered a delicacy and served in 4 star restaurants) then by all means go ahead (I am saying this in order to stop some of you babbling on about how we eat lamb, calf, etc)...BUT there is no excuse to enforce such agonising pain on an animal in the STUPID belief that the more it suffers the better its meat will taste and that it will add to one's virility. Are you not aware that in China no living being escapes them....everything seems to be turned into a powder, paste, etc. Chimpanzees tied to a chair and having their scalp carved open whilst they delve into the poor animal's brain and proceed to eat it whilst it is still alive! The moral of the story is that these announces have a gaul to turn such a subject into a laughing matter!

What's the realistic alternative? Farmers shoot what they can but wild dogs can devastate a farmers livelihood not to mention inflict dreadful injuries on stock.

Agree - I've seen the damage these wild dogs do and it is not a pretty sight, certainly not a nice way to die, in fact some of the stock they attack are badly maimed and are still alive - this is a farmers livelihood, they will shoot where they can, but don't get them all. They are a horrible problem - imagine if they got into an area where there was a child. While I don't like the idea of baiting (though I have rat bait under my house and I'm sure many of you do as well that are opposed to baiting), there isn't that many other ways of getting rid of these dogs. They are very skillful at being elusive! Trapping, getting professional shooters in, are possible other ways. Where we have our farm, they have used traps, the dogs learn very quickly to avoid them, while in the meantime will go through a flock of ewes with lambs and selectively kill and maim half the flock.

Baiting is also risky to pet dogs! Not for it AT ALL! If the dogs are that elusive what makes you think they're going to attack a child? Besides which, you wouldn't leave a child on his own in such areas anyway, would you? there can be other risks for small children, like dams....from what I'm hearing there are far more deaths from children drowning in dams than being attacked by wild dogs...in fact, I cannot recall a child being attacked by wild dogs. I do stand corrected if I'm wrong...but whatever the case it is hardly a common occurrence.

I am not situated in SA but the rule of thumb should remain the same. I am not sure if there is a new vaccine that is capable of overriding maternal antibodies which serve to neutralise a vaccine and thereby rendering it ineffective. Some dogs like dobes, rotties and other breeds seem to 'hold' onto maternal antibodies for longer which, in turn, means they are more at risk of catching infections esp. parvovirus. For most other dogs it is sufficient to give them the last puppy shot at 12 weeks of age but when it comes to the above breeds giving them the last puppy shot at 18-20 weeks is a good idea as they should not be carrying maternal antibodies at that stage.

I would be trying to find out if the vaccine that your vet is using is known to override maternal antibodies. Parvo is very rampant so you have to be careful. I would like to think that your vet knows what he's doing but I can't help being doubtful. I would stick to the breeder's suggestion. Go for Protech Duramune. It is a little stronger than other vaccines.

Not happy with the baiting issue. A painful and agonising death, unbelievably cruel! Seems like everything bad happens in QLD when it comes to dogs, be it pet dogs or wild dogs!

My daughter just rang the inspector back and from the conversation we are thinking it is a neighbor who we have had problems with over the years. He just keeps finding ways to cause problems like cutting our internal fences, letting our bull in with our heifers, letting the oil out of the irrigation pump and poisoning one of our bulls a few years ago, but we just can't prove they are doing it.

The inspector said there is no problems with our animals.

What a nightmare. Is there any way you could install video cameras so that the culprit could be caught doing the deed? What a creep. How could anyone harbor such an attitude? May karma come to those who most deserve it.

Guys read this thread I think it will explain:

http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?showtopic=196142

Stef I think Saffron is depressed. When Lucky passed Razor would sit alone in the shed and howl waiting for Lucky to come back. Took him a month or so to get back to normal then a few months after that we got Boss and he was smitten. Poor baby

Thanks for the link, Jackie....that is so kind of you

To be honest Stef, I would be more concerned about the Amstaff that you turned into the pound..........you didn't know the possible consequences of anything Pit Bully when the rangers get hold of them

I can so define with what you are saying BB. I do so hope that that poor dog is still alive and ends up in the hands of responsible and loving people.

I just wonder whether any of you have had experience with clipping a wet dog? I am not a professional groomer by any means but I do clip the odd dog here and there and they are incredibly matted, I am sure those dogs never see a brush or comb. I find that my blades get blunt when clipping a single dog and shampooing them is to no avail as their coat is literally pelt! What is the best way to clip a heavily matted dog without dulling the blades after only one use. I am at my wits end.

By the way, these are people that I stumble across in the local park and I offer to clip their dogs because it pains me to see them in such conditions and I charge a very minimal amount.

Emmy has tear stain around her eyes and mouth. It's not bad or anything, the vet said that it's normal and Emmy is 100% healthy, but is there a way of me to get rid of them?

it's not as dark as this anymore though (this was taking at 9 weeks old) but the stain is still there.

It just dawned on me that if Emmy is still in her puppyhood stage she may simply be teething and that can cause tear staining and once she has stopped teething the staining may be resolved. I once had a japanese spitz and the same applied to him; he had tear stains during teething and then it all stopped as he matured.

What is the background, that is the story behind bully being taken to pound, how close were they, who was bully, how long was he there, etc etc.

Stef, I was also wondering why Bully was taken to the pound?

I guess Saffron is missing him especially if they were close ?? I suppose it is only natural that she would feel the void that Bully has left behind hence that is why she is wanting to be closer to you. Poor Saffron. She will be back to her old self after a while, time heals all wounds.

Edited to say that I quickly read some posts regarding Bully and found out that he belonged to your neighbours. Are they responsible for sending him to the pound? Gosh, I hope he will find a loving home.

Glad the poor boy has come through. I would highly recommend a couple of drops of PENTAVITE daily. That will stimulate his appetite and give him the strength that he will need to full recovery. That really is a beaut product. Hugs to him.

PETA USED to be good but now they have gone so far left they have disappeared up their own ..you know what.

their agenda now is to stop all people from owning pets because that is abusing the pets. they also disagree with purebred dogs and purebred dog breeders.

they are no longer allies for pet owners...in fact maybe they never were.

How can any organization in their right mind be aiming to stop people from owning pets? That is preposterous. And why would they be against purebred dog breeders? Surely that would also include BYB? If they don't believe in pet ownership it would have to involve all breeders. If that is what they are all about then maybe they should keep their heads deep in the cavity that allows no ray of sunshine!