mini girl

http://www.lapdog.co.nz/DBPMTS.php

The above link shows strips for testing progesterone levels in a bitch. They sound good if they work. Has anyone ever used them.

Also the site has this other device for knowing when ovulation is happening.

http://www.lapdog.co.nz/fertile-focus.php

It's a New Zealand site. Price is very fair I feel. Interested to hear any feedback on them.

Welcome to the world of breeding dogs there must be a a million stories out there and some are heart breaking and some make you feel so good. Sounds like things are coming together for you and your girl. Hope all continues well and your 3 lovely puppies all grow into beautiful little dogs. Congratulations on your first litter even though it was somewhat of a baptism of fire.

Best of luck. She is very cute :) & you won't believe this in your current state of exuberance but

Its as exciting when its your 10th litter as it is when its your first. New life is so amazing, breathtaking & wonderful. I find it awesome every single time.

Looking forward to hearing good news in a few weeks & seeing some photos.

So true

sad for you, but puppy is now free of discomfort and struggling.

Thank you totally agree

This poor little mite would have been given his wings that first day if her were mine .... of course there is a possibility he may be able to survive ... but IMO, breeding is to provide healthy, robust and happy puppies ...

Final note on this little fellow It was a long sad struggle and in the end he didn't make it I ended up surrendering to a carer who was wonderful and kept me updated he had a lot of care and veterinary help but developed breathing problems and was lost. I have learned the hard way and although feel we tried so hard if I ever have this particular problem in the future will do as you say and give him his wings early.

Thank you for all who did respond during this sad time we went through.

Final note on this pup she is now 8 weeks old a little darling eats everything in sight and as lively as a cricket. After all her early dramas I have to keep her to see how she grows up.

I have used progesterone tablets for one of my girls but it was only after she had lost her pups at day 51. This girl went on to have 3 litters each time with the help of progesterone tablets from about 6 weeks in - all pups born healthy and without complications. One of her daughters had the same problem and needed the tablets another carried full term without any need for help. Good luck with the pups and mum.

I may add I had progesterone blood test along the way and only supplemented when progesterone began to fall.

Had a little brea through she just lapped water out of a teaspoon. Had the water running to wipe her over and seemed interested and she lapped two teaspoons. Good girl

Get rid of the divetalac, it's horrendous and I've never had pups that have consumed it willingly. Try goats milk, veanavite or animalac.

You might also have better success with scrapping any mush that you are trying to prepare and going human grade mince. Offer some fresh human grade raw, I've never seen normal puppies refuse that.

She is eating mince very well also some cheese (slices). The recovery tin food. She is a real little sweetheart but looks so awful after all the trying to get her to lap she has dried milk all over her chest. Looks quite funny. Would love to bath her but don't dare a pup this young will just wipe her over.

Fingers crossed mini girl, I know that any puppies I have had that are slow to lap do take to this, just put her by the bowl put your finger in the milk and put it in her mouth with a bit of the mixture, do this for awhile but gradually put your finger/s closer to the bowl so as she will follow and she should then start to lap it.

Oh I forgot an ingredient, a teaspoon of honey, did that recipe without getting my brain in gear :laugh: the honey of course makes it sweeter and they love that.

Thanks so much getting all the ingredients today. Good to see the scales going up. Will feel a lot better when she reaches a kilo. Here she is in the bowl on the scales.

Going against the general opinion here but I don't think giving her anything special or different is going to make any difference or trying to show her how.

She either really can't lap, which is doubtful as she has eaten, although liquid may take a bit more practise, or she isn't hungry enough to help herself.

Yesterday I put food down for 3 week old puppies & today was hot & mum wasn't inclined to go in with them when they whined so I put a shallow dish of cold water in there & they all drank. No showing them how, helping them or anything & these are tiny toy poodles.

I would put a tiny selection of 3 or 4 foods down & some water & then leave her alone to help herself or not. She will not die or dehydrate for say 10 hours or so & usually a healthy puppy will not starve.

She probably hates feed times & you probably stress if she doesn't have something very often so its been a hard & horrid time for both of you.

Its hard not to fuss but I would try the above. Maybe food is such a nightmare issue now.

Hope your next post is better news. Its all so stressful when it goes wrong

She is eating better and just give her a little milk with syringe never had a pup like this girl before. I am going to try the recipe with lactose free milk, etc suggested. I have another litter of 4 were two weeks last Wednesday. Don't think I will have any problems with these guys they are big and strong. When these pups are walking around may put the little girl in with them. Feel so sorry for her all alone. She is such a pretty little pup and already attitude and personality. She is5 weeks tomorrow . She now weighs 718 grams so she is coming on.

I wonder if the following recipe will help her get interested in lapping.

I use it for bitches that have just whelped and for my puppies when they are being weaned, it works everytime for puppies who are slow at wanting to lap, it is a total food in itself, the problem puppies soon get their head over the bowl.

1 Cup Lactose free milk (it is on the shelf in the longlife milk)

1 egg yolk

1dessertspoon of natural yoghurt

3 drops of vanilla essence

1teaspoon of cold press Flaxseed oil, from health shop.

The smell of this compared to ordinary milk seems to stimulate the will to lap and as she is by herself she has no competition to make her want to do it.

Lactose free milk is fine for a puppy of 4.5 weeks.

She may have a bit of a sore throat from all of the prolonged tube feeding, I do not do that past two weeks of age, they need to be able to learn to suck to develop their jaws.

Best of luck with her.

Will try this thanks She is eating better but still doesn't want to lap the divetalact.

that sounds positive ...perhaps she has never been hungry ..and has not had to work for her food, or had opportunity to taste smell other things at all?

it would still concern me that she is so tiny , tho.

You know I think that could be right. She had her mother to herself while she did have milk. Then tube feeding where we fed her every 3 or 4 hours no work for her. Earlier on she would eat on her own but I felt not quite enough. She was hungry this morning and did eat a litte. Then went back to sleep. Gave her some milk with syringe. Hope when she starts playing with the other pups she may be better. She put on a few grams overnight.

Just back from the vet. He checked her all out and even though she is small said nothing wrong with her infact said she is quite feisty Has enough fat on her bones and not dehydrated. He said perhaps with the trauma of tube feeding and me trying to push her into eating so much she may have developed a bit of a fear of food and also the smell of the divetalact. He said she is probably a pup that knows what she wants even at 4 and a half weeks. He gave me a tin of royal canin recovery to try I tried her on some in the car while my husband dropped into our local shop and you know she loved it. She ate a fair bit actually off my fingers. My vet thinks she will come good and try her with a few things and see how she goes. Maybe I have one fussy girl on my hands. But good to know she has no health issues.

Puppies can usually work out how to lap from 2 weeks if need be. As soon as they can see and stand, lapping should be possible and I have never heard of any being tube fed after that. With the slow start this little one has had, maybe she wasn't at that stage until 3 weeks but by now she should be able to eat well. To get a puppy to lap hold a saucer up under the chin with a little milk in it. Dip your finger in the milk and then in the puppies mouth. Then dip her chin in the milk. In most cases the puppy will lap. If that doesn't work and she will eat mince, mix some with a little milk and gradually increase the amount of milk until she has to lap rather than pick up the meat. You can gradually add other stuff like dry food soaked in milk to the mix and then start varying the texture. She should also have water available at this age so watch and see if she works out what to do with the water.

Tried all of the above. It's just like at times she has no interest in food whereas usually pups hoe in and really have a good old guts. When she is awake she walks around and appears happy enough. I may take her to the vet for a check up. I know she should be lapping and eating about 4 meals a day. She sleeps a lot and never cries. She also doesn't come running to the side of her pen wanting to get out. I think with all the handling to do with food maybe she doesn't like feeding time. Last meal at night and first thing in the morning she isn't too bad but through the day doesn't seem interested. She has only put on about 9 grams since last night. She doesn't seem dehydrated though. I am really at my wits end. Her mother went home to her owner on Sunday evening. I wonder if she misses her.

Added a new post re this pup finding it hard to get her to eat enough.

I have been trying to hand raise a pup mini poodle she is now 4 and a half weeks old. We were tube feeding but tried to get her to eat and lap at about 3 weeks as mother lost her milk. She does not want to lap milk and all I can get her to eat is raw mince. I give her some milk sponge method but she will only take about 10 mils. I am giving her a little nutrigel and she should be gaining around 28 grams a day but only gaining about half that. She weighs around 650 grams. Adult weight should be 7 or so klos. She was very small born only 121 grams. I have tried her with farex and divetalact, soaked advance rehydratbel puppy food and raw good mince. She eats a bit of the mince but I feel not enough. She seems strong and active and wees and poos ok. I am wondering if we should go back to the tube feeding for a week or so to bring her on a bit. Any suggestions would be great.

Thanks Christina was thinking maybe 6 small meals a day. Don't think she is interested in water just yet. I did put her on my other girl who's pups are a week tomorrow. She let her feed so may do that from time to time as well. The other girl has 4 big pups and seems to have plenty of milk. I don't think I should leave her with the other mum all the time though with the age difference in the pups. We ended up surrendering the little male who was her brother and had drinking problems. Was going to have him pts but the vet nurse at our animal hospital said she would do a rescue and with the help of a vet team see how he goes. She is also a dog breeder and wild life carer. If nothing can be done he will have to be pts but if there is zany thing that can help and he does survive to be ok they will re home him. I honestly don't hold out a lot of hope but as we were not getting anywhere thought it one last ditch try. These two pups were being reared by me for another breeder due to her personal circumstances.

Have had to take up hand rearing a puppy mother lost all her milk. The pup is 3 weeks and 3 days. I have introduced some food which is going well. Loves the formular with a little mince and either farex or advance rehydratable puppy food. My question is how long will I need to continue the tube feeding and getting up at 2 am for a feed. Tried to find a schedule but can't really find one. She is gaining and we weigh her each feed. She weighs 530 grams now. Is it too early to cut out the milk by tube and just divide it into feeds of formular and mince and the rehydratable soaked. When do you let them go through the night. Just finished the 2am feed she was sound asleep and didn't seem all that hungry. First time I have ever had to do this. Would she now be ok with formular and food only and how many feeds a day.

Some clefts in the soft palate cannot be seen in a live puppy. My vet found some in the hundreds of autopsies she did for her PHD in Puppy Mortality. In some the cleft can only be found at autopsy when the jaw is cut through and opened up. It isn't possible to open a live puppy's mouth that far.

Have heard this also.

But today I thought well I have nothing to loose so decided to try him on some divetalact with farex and he ate it off a teaspoon very happily he seemed hungry. Have given him 3 feeds today along with tube feeding between. I am still not going to get my hopes up but he does seem to be going ok His owners came to visit today and they will keep him as a pet so at least he will be loved. His sister meanwhile is going great still having tube feedings and what milk her mother has which isn't much but she is gaining well and no problems. He does make a bit of noise like he is congested but the vet said its not coming from his lungs sounded more from nose and the throat and that he also must be getting enough oxygen as gums and tongue are good pink colour no blue tinge. Maybe when he is older it may be possible to know his problem or even better he grows out of it. I keep hoping.

Thank you Jed and Wundahoo I really appreciate this information. They are 2weeks today. Eyes open trying to stand on wobbly legs and with the tube feeding gaining weight. I feel he is worth a try he is a very strong pup and quite active. Even if he just goes to a loving carer free of charge if he does have a few special needs I know it's not about money with the owner of the mother. I have read where birth defects can be just as common in very young mothers as old mothers. This litter was not ment to happen. But I know myself from experience accidental makings can and do happen. I bred the mother and she is just a year old. The father turns a year today. Will continue with hope for a good outcome.

I often wonder if part of the reason we seem to have so many dogs with health issues is not because breeders struggles with the best of intentions to save them when they probably should have been let go. Unfortunately we don't know if other issues are caused or develop because we are so focused on pushing the pup through the obvious problem that we may overlook other less obvious issues. It almost becomes a badge of honour that we managed to keep the poorly pup alive.

Please don't think l am out for any badge of honour or anything at all like that but he is not my pup at the end of the day to decide I must leave this to his mothers owner to make the final decision. Maybe I am letting emotion get in the way of common sence but I feel I must give him another week and start him on some solid food and see what transpires if it proves to not work out at lease I will know and not always wonder could that pup have come good.

Apologies mini girl I was making a general statement rather than directing it at you but I did not make that clear. How you deal with this situation is your choice and not for me or anyone else to condem you for doing whatever you believe is necessary. I can understand your attachment to this pup and particularly as there are only two in the litter.

Thank you will let you know how he goes .you just never know.

..maybe I've perservered with too many over the years , only to have them PTS a later stage ..I won't do it nowdays , I'm afraid.

The vet gave this little one a shot & some fluid when she went right downhill & said take her home & try if you wish but she will die. Down to 50 grams 5 days & nights of hourly & 2 hourly feeds 24/7 almost gave up & then she bounced back.

Never knew what went wrong

9 years later here she is. Still with me & never had a problem with anything. Sometimes miracles happen :)

That is a lovely story Christina I would love to think this possible for this baby. I will put it in the hands of the almighty and see what happens. It is not like he is in any pain or discomfort or suffering. If he has to go a week more will be no more or less sad for me.

I often wonder if part of the reason we seem to have so many dogs with health issues is not because breeders struggles with the best of intentions to save them when they probably should have been let go. Unfortunately we don't know if other issues are caused or develop because we are so focused on pushing the pup through the obvious problem that we may overlook other less obvious issues. It almost becomes a badge of honour that we managed to keep the poorly pup alive.

Please don't think l am out for any badge of honour or anything at all like that but he is not my pup at the end of the day to decide I must leave this to his mothers owner to make the final decision. Maybe I am letting emotion get in the way of common sence but I feel I must give him another week and start him on some solid food and see what transpires if it proves to not work out at lease I will know and not always wonder could that pup have come good.

This poor little mite would have been given his wings that first day if her were mine .... of course there is a possibility he may be able to survive ... but IMO, breeding is to provide healthy, robust and happy puppies ...

I agree with you but in over100 pups have never struck one like this. Rang my old breeder mentor who has been breeding over 40 years very early and she thought maybe he was just hungry. Spoke to my reproduction vet, 3 other vets from the same practice and vets who are also dog breeders. None said pts. So I have persevered. I am hoping, maybe in vain that coming this far it may be something that improves. I had been hopeful someone may have had a pup that survived this kind of thing to at least give me hope. He is very healthy in every other way. I will just give him his chance and see how he goes when given solid food. If he can't manage to eat then he will have to go. I know it's going to be a heartbreak but I just have to do it in case he can eat.