Roova

That is a great site, hopefully no-one here ever has to use it! How wonderful/lucky that man got his $5000 camera back, its not often you ever see something again once its stolen

I hope the lucky people who buy the puppies (especially the fawn one) are on DOL so we can hopefully see pictures of them growing up. Im so jealous of them!

The dogs you've listed, while exceptionally talented or trained, are still only "pet quality". No one doubts that a lot of pets are highly intelligent and very capable of carrying out complex tasks, but with a mixed breed dog, there is no documented ancestry, so no way of telling where that intelligence came from and no way of using it to produce offspring of equal or better intelligence than the parent.

On the other hand, if one of them had a pedigree, it would be relatively easy for a breeder with knowledge of those particular genes, to be able to match the dog to a suitable pedigree bitch and bring about litters of puppies that can then carry on the sires work. And that is how the dog gets to be better than pet quality.

Do many breeders actually work with genetics or are their choices generally made by what the breeding pair may offer standard wise, ie looks only?

I wasn't aware intelligence was a factor normally chosen for? How many breeds would that occur with? I guess if intelligence is a deciding factor for show/pedigree dog then someone breeding their pet dog because they think it has a great temperament is probably a blessing :D

Just out of interest if pedigrees don't show genetic information how would one use this as a deciding factor in their pedigree breeding?

When I was in the poultry world there were many books available which listed genetic information for different breeds. Extremely useful if introducing a different breed to better a poor line, or begin the creation of different colours without losing breed characteristics. Is the same type of information available for dog breeds? Are there any recommended books?

..... It's all about why you buy the dog. Cross breed dogs will never be better than pet quality, and so if your criteria is higher or more specific than pet quality, or you need breeding quality, you need to buy a purebreed dog.

I think it also comes down to WHO buys the dog. Someone only after a pet to join their family would be more than happy with a rescued pooch too. From a supply prospective all these crossbred puppies being bought into the world seem to be finding a home (well puppies seem to have less of a dump rate anyway). It seems to be the poor older dog who's kicked out of the family home when lack of training becomes apparent and the dog is blamed. I'd love to know the percentage of dogs dumped due to grooming requirements or size being unexpected to the owner and not just behavioural issues.

Regarding the comment that crossbred dogs are pet quality only, I'm not so sure this is a bad thing is it? Someone simply wanting a dog to love and not for breeding? I often look through the mature dogs listed on DOL and they all seem to be older dogs which didn't make it showing wise or have finished their breeding life and are no longer wanted. I totally understand why someone can't keep all their dogs, but these are dogs which loved their family and are being rehomed because they are no longer suitable for their person's needs. It seems quite clinical. Are these rehomings ok and crossbred rehomings are not?

I would always prefer a pedigree dog for all the reasons everyone else would, but I feel I have to defend the poor crossbred's who in most cases still make wonderful pets except for not being suitable for going around a show ring.

Absolutely adorable! Those little muzzles just melt my heart :D They look very healthy and happy!

Breeding cross breeds is a crapshoot. No predictability, no idea how big, how pleasant, how intelligent, how healthy a mutt will be, it's just guesswork

That would be quite true if one of the parents was an unknown, but for those deliberately breeding a toy poodle and a maltese for example, they could generally be quite sure the resulting pups will be small, reasonably intelligent, and as healthy and pleasant as the parents were (with human intervention helping). You know they're not going to be as big as or look like a greyhound for example.

Definitely there's predictability with looks and size with purebreds but even within one litter there can be different temperaments, size and health results. If every puppy was exactly the same you wouldn't need to go through a puppy selection process.

I don't thinks its fair to infer every crossbred litter is going to end up so far from the parents the pups will look and be nothing like them!

For those who want a pet only they might be quite happy with a pet which changes in looks as it grows. For those who want a pet who definitely looks a certain way, and hopefully behaves a certain way then pedigree all the way!

Your photos are amazing! Your puppies are sooo adorable I can't stop looking at them! The one with Charm cleaning the puppy with the open mouth and the fawn puppy looking on just makes my heart melt.

To say that people who pay more for their dogs would be more inclined to seek out medical care is offensive. I paid nothing for my dogs. By your logic, I am more inclined to dump them and not to seek medical care

I don't think this comment was meant to infer that those who are lucky enough not to pay a fortune for their dog, choose not to provide health care if they can afford to. I think the assumption is if a person can't save enough to purchase a 'pedigree' dog, then they may not be able to cope with the sometimes extensive medical costs a dog may bring.

There are plenty of comments on DOL about why pedigree dogs are so expensive and a lot of comments saying "if someone can't afford how much one costs, they can't afford the associated costs". Maybe the thought is the more someone pays for something the more they value it?

Im sure Vets see a lot of people (pedigree dog or not) put into financial distress after paying for Vet visits, or being told they need thousands for unexpected surgery. In those cases I can see why dumping at the pound might seem like the only option for some people, like the poor dog with HD mentioned earlier.

... IMO not to add to an already overpopulated world with more cross breeds that will likely end up dumped as they don't meet the expectations of their new owners.

I don't think they're dumped just because they're crossbred though? Plenty of people have crossbred dogs which meet expectations with appropriate training. Im sure there's plenty of purebred dog owners who have issues with dogs they haven't put training in to as well. Maybe spending a decent amount of money on a purebred dog and making an effort to source one, also helps lessen the dump rate? In saying that the oodles which seem to be everywhere, don't seem to end up dumped much unlike the staffie/bull/working dog crosses you commonly see.

...the only ethical reason to breed is for the betterment of your chosen breed IMO not to add to an already overpopulated world

Its hard not to consider the fact that some breeders might keep one puppy from a litter of twelve and sell the rest as pets. Thats 11 puppies going out to the public (hopefully to be neutured) which weren't good enough to better the breed.

I don't think anyone should feel guilty for buying from an ethical registered breeder, but I don't agree that all crossbreds are going to be unsuitable in every way and end up dumped in the pound. Most people can generally talk of lovely crossbred dogs they've had in their past. In most cases a dog is a dog and the end result is the effort you put in to it. IMO of course :D

He's beautiful! He has lovely rich brown eyes, lovely photos of him. :D

Gorgeous photo's of gorgeous horses. B is devine!! Does he have a nice nature to go along with his good looks?

I think babies (of any type of animal) prompt a sense of caring in people. Its an instinctual thing to promote survival. Why else would someone look after a crying, feeding, sleep depriving baby? People seem to gravitate to puppies because they're so cute, not everyone gets the same feelings from looking or touching a great car.

It certainly doesn't excuse patting or touching someone elses puppy but the need to touch and showing caring toward a baby seems to over-ride natural inhibitions (IMO).

It definitely seems we're heading to a world where some people are only interested in themselves and what they want,

and social etiquette isn't high on a list of what to train their kids.

You could always tell the persistent your puppy has a skin disease you're treating and it would be best/safest if they didn't pat him at the moment. Bit OTT but it might help :D

Maybe overkill but I'd be getting him checked by a Vet in case its a skin cancer. Unexpected changes in skin, especially with bleeding can sometimes indicate skin cancer. Hopefully it's just a scratch healing over.

And Abby!

Abby aged 4 weeks

Oh my goodness, I think my heart just melted. So adorable!!

English Toy Terriers could fit that criteria. They seem to have a lot of get up and go, are intelligent and can do well at agility. There's a DOLer with one, I found the thread where she has pictures (its about half way down). I believe she does agility with hers too.

EET

I wonder as well if sometimes the long discussions on what an owner expects in the grooming session would be better off happening with the dog present? Then at least the groomer has a chance to contribute to what they can and can't do depending on the state of the dog.

There's so many cases where groomers end up doing something not discussed (for whatever reason) and it seems it could save a lot of heartache to have the discussion with the dog present? Im sure its hard when the groomer might have a full day booked, but for the first visit it could be worth asking them to put aside some time to talk about your expectations. Hopefully your pooches are hairy again before you know it

There's some good articles about this on the Leerburg website. They might not be for everyone, but they're really well worth reading. From what I understand she's no longer returning to you because it means an end to her play session. You can practice calling her and treating her regularly while she's playing so you are always more rewarding than what she's doing. Here's a couple of links to the ones I found with a quick search:

When your dog WON'T come when called

Q & A on recall problems

Hope something here helps you

In reality a carnivore's digestive system is designed for gorging on food and then potentially not eating for days afterward's until the next 'kill'. They have hinged jaws which allow them to swallow large chunks of food for the purpose of getting it down quickly. They definitely don't have the same digestive system as humans.

Humans feed smaller portions so it probably makes no difference being fed once or twice a day. I do remember reading somewhere dogs should miss a meal reasonably regularly but I don't remember how often, once a fortnight maybe? Does anyone know if thats helpful or not?

How about those rolls of sticky paper you can use on clothes? The $2 shops sometimes sell rolls of three pretty cheaply. You'll probably go through them quickly but I find them great for picking up hair off couches and clothes so they might work well in the car too?

A few different things I've read which are meant to work are a damp cloth which can make the hair clump up so you can grab the clumps. Velcro which can apparently help drag the hair into clumps but the favorite seems to be rubber gloves dragged over the hair as Katdog said.

Good luck! :D

If you accept that there is a problem with some breeders, why not expand your pedigrees to include hip/elbow scores and birth/death years for as many generations back as you can (eg, put 2001-2011 for a dog who died this year, and 2004- for a dog who was born in 2004 and was still living when the pedigree was issued?

...... it would be good to have better transparency about health over the dog's whole lifetime.

I can see how it would help weed out BYB's and unethical breeders. It seems so obvious to have some form of recognising healthy pedigrees to help show what type of dog you might end up with. It's amazing it's not included now.

It seems the most expensive breeds tendto be the ones harder to breed because of larger heads and narrow pelvis's (a lot of the brachycephalic breeds). These also seem to be more likely to end up with health problems plaguing them or have to lead specialised lives because of health limitations.

Where BYB's or unethical breeders infer they have healthy stock this would at least prove it. I came across an ad for a French Bulldog a while back, advertised for $3000. I knew from the wording on the ad the breeder was a BYB'er but I couldn't help myself and asked what health testing the parents had had. This is the person's reply:

Hi, I have not done health test on the parents,but the only time i have to go to the vets,is when the grils have a c-section,the parent are very healthy as they run around in the back yard and are fine,here is photos of parents and i stand by my breeding.

They might look healthy now, but who knows whats in their genetic history? I think the general public presume if they spend a lot of money on a purebred dog they must be buying a good / healthy dog, whether its from a BYB or a registered breeder. A breeder 'saying' they have healthy stock is one thing, but to be able to prove it is another.

It would be hard making it happen though. How would information get back to the right people? Vets and pounds would have to be heavily involved with passing on PTS reasons for microchipped dogs. Would the public who've bought unwanted puppies from show litters be asked to contact a central registry to pass on death details when it happens? You wouldn't want this going via the breeder, just in case I presume. The pedigree would have to show accidental death too, as a dog being hit by a car could show an unnaturally short life. I can see this would be very hard to make happen

I think the only way a change would occur is if the standard was changed though. Those who show and who probably breed the most are stuck following a standard which might not be doing the dogs any favours. What does it take to change a standard? Petitions or vet reports? It probably also takes the breeders to want to change their dog which probably wouldn't happen without a fight with the majority?

Squashy faced dogs are my favorite breed by far but I can't help but wonder how the modern day bulldog would handle the sport they were once bred for? Does the current standard relate any more to what they were once bred for?

They'd be puffed and exhausted before getting half way across a paddock!

My 6month old puppy likes to chase and kill chickens. I am certain she learnt this from the old pug cross

The chooks don't live in fear. The puppy doesn't circle the pen or try to get in. Although, the rooster flew out and she played with him and killed him

If a chook is running from your dog when he's chasing them, then I would say they are running in fear. Im not sure why you think they wouldn't find it fearful to have a predator chasing them? If you had a pug cross also killing chooks and a pup was allowed to run with him while doing so, you may have lost your opportunity of training calm acceptance of the chooks.

A flapping, squarking chook can be too hard for some dogs to ignore and once they have killed you'll seldom stop the blood lust from happening again.

When you say your dog played with the rooster I would imagine it was more a case of playing with his prey if the end result was killing it. I would very much doubt it was a mutual playing session!

I currently have a French Bulldog who'll let the chooks wander around her, but I've had a Bull Mastiff in the past who would kill a chook given the opportunity. We had to tie her up when the chooks were free ranging and she would be staring at them the whole time they were out. I would never trust a dog which has killed to be unsupervised and off lead with chooks again. I agree with Gayle, any animal has the right to a stress free, safe environment to live in.

It's a real pain having a dog which kills chooks so I do feel for you.

I've loved reading "The Focused Puppy" by Deborah Jones and Judy Keller. I bought mine though Clean Run but I'm sure you can buy it elsewhere: http://www.cleanrun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_id=2502&ParentCat=407&string=focused puppy

The book is recommended to those starting with a puppy (it also gives lots of great suggestion on how to choose the right puppy for you) and is also for those who have adopted an older dog. It's written in a very straight forward, easy to read manner.

Also the free articles on the website Dog Star Daily are pretty easy to read and broken up in to lots of different articles: http://www.dogstardaily.com/training/your-education-about-puppy-education.