toy*dog

would be in the wellington shire area, gippsland is a big place. there is also some in the neighboring shire of latrobe valley not as many as in wellington shire though.

ANKC registered Steve? Puppy farmers have always abused purebred dogs. theres several people down this way that are ANKC registered but unfortunately also breed designer dogs to make some money on the side and im hoping its one lady that had a huge farm and had about 500 breeding dogs and approval from the local council down there. the person was chucked out of VCA but managed to come back in somehow but this was several years ago. most of the farms are from Wellington shire area unfortunately. There is one that use to breed cavs. the terriers i don't know what breed that would be as i know they also have designer breeds with the pedigrees and have done for years and years. They have several breeds and all sorts and went into cats as well i heard. advertise regularly in the papers. 60 dogs would be a drop in the ocean for this person. I've seen their dogs as someone brought a dog around many years ago and the poor dog had that much wrong with it, it wasn't funny, long unclipped nails, very unsound, jaw protruding with rotten teeth, freshly bought from this place. I am hoping beyond hope it is this person and maybe this raid will make them shut up shop for good. there are alot of farms down in gippsland so it could be any one of those. gippsland is puppy farm central as the council supports them. the only council that does. they see it as a money making venture. spoken to many councillors over many years and know their views on all of this unfortunately.

i'll put it in here too, word has gotten out that the agent who collects these dogs from farms and backyard breeders (always advertising in the paper for puppies down this way) has been fined and now the council is looking into their affairs. the locals know who it is eventhough no name has been put in the paper apparently. a relative just read it out to me. this is a possibility, the farm where the pups have been collected from might not have had parvo but then have been put in with other pups from other farms (there are about 30 farms down this way in gippsland they tell me) and then the rest of the pups have gotten the virus. i read in the sun the farm where most of the pups have been sourced from was KKK. hate that name sounds like Klu Klux Klan. think someone might have already said this just putting it out there. and yes, the governments perception of a puppy farm is quite different to the public's perception and everyone elses perception. if a "business" is registered to breed dogs and has all the bells and whistles then they are not technically regarded as a puppy farm. I got into a website a while ago where the government department was actually advising the public to buy from these registered breeding farms. it was all tied in with PIAA as well. so they are patting each others backs all for the almighty dollar. Im now resigned to the fact, you will never go against the almight dollar and the "industry" and the billions of dollars this generates for the councils, vets and government, all getting their cut out of puppy farms unfortunately. i hate to say it, but i think they are here to stay. not unless the public and our culture change their way of thinking......but its in peoples mind from years ago, if you want a puppy you go to a petshop fullstop. went past a pets paradise on my way to looking for a clothes store the other day, and there were two elderly couples around "toy pom" puppies. one said to the other, i got my pup from here and he is healthy and fine. so they are recommending for the other couple to get their pup from there too. no such thing as toy poms, poms come in one size, bred and showed these many years ago. one guy rang me and said to me, i was the treasurer of the state club at the time, there are 3 sizes, toy, miniature and standard. i said you are talking about poodles. no he said, thats the sizes of poms. lol you can't tell some people.

um, may i add that in the local papers where the sick pups came from, i have gotten word that the agent that picks up the pups from the farms and transports them to melbourne or wherever to pets paradise stores has been fined and the council is now looking at his practices, i can't say a name although the locals know who I am speaking about, they advertise quite regularly in the local papers down there for pups or whole litters that he can buy. it was in the paper last week i think. no name was mentioned.

yes i saw that in a government website, they said something in effect to; if you are looking for a puppy go to a breeder who is registered and given approval by RSPCA. ie. a large commercial breeder. when i was communicating with the animal rights people, don't now because they started to look at my family as the bad guys as these animal rights ppl don't trust anyone who breeds a litter of pups or hobby breeders who breed in very small numbers. but when i was communicating with them, i was trying to tell them about the way the dogs were being bred not to concentrate solely on if they are a large commercial breeder they are mistreating their animals. i was then told to shut up and i didn't know what i was talking about, meanwhile i've done a bit of fostering and rescuing myself for many years. they were saying things about vets and about the breeding side that weren't ringing true so i'd say something about it that it wasn't right and then i got told again to shut up. so in essence the ppl that are running these groups are not experienced enough in my opinion to be giving advice about the breeding side and that is the most important thing because you can't really say now about large commercial breeders=puppy farmer=evil mistreater of animals particularly when they have rules and regs to comply to from RSPCA and the govt. what my angle was about was the breeding side, care on grooming long coated breeds, socialisation and choosing the best sires and dams when there are so many and not all get to spend time with a family so the breeder is familiar with the dogs temp and the whole canine family and health in bloodlines which is non-existant in many large commercial breeding premises particularly hard when you have so many animals to sit down and study each and everyone right back to fifth generation etc. etc. to make sure the pups don't inherit any genetic problems. all this I was quoting on rather than the line of oh they are a large scale commercial breeder=puppy farmer and oh that automatically means they are mistreating their dogs. mob mentality which is a bit dangerous sort of almost like brain washing in my mind.

yeah i know what they care about.

and im sure that they check each and every new owner thoroughly before they sell to the person. including the ones over in singapore, Hong Kong, Hawaii and japan, they must fly over with the pup to make sure that the owner takes good care of the pup. then if the pup doesn't fit in im sure that they will fly back over to the mentioned country to get the pup back NOT!!!!!!!!!! how can they sleep at night when they don't know what kind of home the pups are going to esp. in another country. its impossible to check. poor poor pups. this is what really gets my dander up. and yes, this is the big problem isn't it, farmers aren't taking the time to match clearly if they are meeting people with pups, send pups which leads to all sorts of problems not matching owner and lifestyle to pup or breed. can you tell the govt this? no, all they see is $$$$ along with the vets, councils and im sure its all fine just as long as they are all registered and comply to the law which states they must be clean and have percentage of staff to cater to the dogs. grrrrrrrrr

hmmm interesting, just went to have another look and they are saying that using imports and having a large unrelated gene pool ensures healthier pups. now knowing what i do and what i've experienced that is not true that statement. now you wouldn't be making that statement if you had experience with breeding dogs or any animal. thats just not true. so all my dogs are supposedly unhealthy because i line breed are they. :laugh: i've also outcrossed on occassion and i've done that by not importing but using dogs in Australia. we all know it depends on the bloodlines themselves and the way the genes interact with each other and how a dog passes on those genes and genetic problems. Outcrossing means you have a greater chance of breeding in genetic problems as with linebreeding where the genes are more known to be able to weed the problems out. outcrossing means more random genes to contend with. :laugh: this is what i mean. it just sounds like to to me they are very green. what happens if those dogs they've imported turn out to keep throwing a serious genetic problem? plus they have on the website that after handover they have no responsiblity for the health after the pup gets sold up until it gets sold they have made every effort to ensure its health. so what does that mean? if the dog develops a genetic problem inherited they will wipe their hands it sure sounds like that to me with that wording??????????? also there are 2 drop off points for pups in melbourne somewhere. from a car boot? just stating for myself i'd never just meet someone and hand over a dog just like that, i'd want the people to come and visit and meet them before handing over any animal. the people have to jump through hoops to ensure they are going to look after any dog i sell. not that i have many to sell in the first place. as we know alot of breeders do this exact same thing. just saying......

you know what i've got a problem with i've spelt it out enough times on here not going to go over it again then i'll be accused of preaching to the already converted. :laugh:

well i believe mita said it and i agree, registered ANKC breeder but i always tack on screen your breeder. im not trying to stop them calling themselves registered?

im sorry - im not having a shot at you please don't think i am! just sometimes what you write about dog shows and people showing seems to be a bit negative thats all. might be wrong might have interpretted it wrong though. as you know i am passionate about this subject. i know i am preaching to the already converted but discussing in here makes me feel better as im talking to people who sometimes feel the same way i do. And there is that element of the beginner dog owners who come in here to read and learn. this is really for their benefit too, the more we discuss the more people we educate - it is all about education. We might not be talking about the same people though that is a possibility?? there is alot of breeders who come from that area and i know you know which area i talk off. don't want to spell it out here for privacy reasons. i feel like having a talk to these people having a pleasant conversation to find out why they feel the way they do, because its a darn shame we have lost more people out of the ANKC system really is my way of thinking. I've had to support many breeders before in this area as some have been treated very badly. i know if i attempt to contact i might get met with indifference. there is a breeder who is new who has been treated awfully in the showring and still they go to shows and still show. made sure i've supported them and offered to have them call me anytime if they need assistance. it makes a big difference. that particular breed is nearly non-existant all because of no support from older breeders and the breed club closed down because there couldn't be any agreement. there's been no new people for many years. and i got all excited when i saw this new person. she's been pushed out of the showring because she won with her lovely dogs and been treated to badly! its very shameful that there are people in the showring going on like this. bad news for the sport and for pedigree dogs!

im not saying they wouldn't care about their dogs and what they are breeding, ofcourse they'd care given that they are going to charge 4 times the price for the pups, ofcourse they'd care. lol its not cheap to import dogs but whose to say what lines these dogs are from and how healthy they are, but the interpretation is, our dogs are imports so there fore better able to produce pups that are not related to each other there fore better. and if you know anything about breeding thats not always the case. i mean a dog could be a grand champion or be imported doesn't mean it is any better than any other dog just because of the fancy title.

why shouldn't we compare? they are sure doing this in their statements on their websites and in their facebook pages bagging us all. telling the public purebred pedigrees are inbred, unhealthy and especially if the breeders shows because its all rigged so why can't we defend ourselves? and say its not true but not bag them. but it is true, why some breed and they may hide it no one ever says they breed for money, and i don't know why its always been a big secret. even in pedigree circles its always been a big secret, i've known some breeders who show, only show to the public the ones in the house meanwhile out the back had a big shed full of dogs selling to petshops and that was their secret business. so you are right its very hard to distinguish between a breeder who breeds solely for profit as motivation and a hobby breeder out for the breed only.

i know of a heck of a lot of breeders that don't only breed for a ribbon steve, thats only part of the equation as i mentioned before. i know from past threads that you don't show yourself either. there is alot of misconceptions about the showring going around. “A dog show is not a beauty contest. A dog needs to be able to move well and have the right sort of temperament. Most importantly, the structure, or conformation, of the dog must be sound and show no signs of ill health or other problems. I am glad to see strict rules are in place to ensure responsible breeding and showing is practised by breeders throughout Australia.”, states Dr Higgins. i'd invite judgement on ourselves because most of what's been said to me by some of these breeders is based on heresay and inuendo. and praying on the very ignorant which really gets me upset i hate seeing people being duped. and sweeping statements that has no possibility in being true all because of clever "marketing" as you say. i don't know this breeder we are speaking off, if i was a new owner i'd be very impressed but some of what they say because of my experience has no possibility in being able to be accomplished. Have they tried to get into MDBA? i know for privacy reasons you prolly cannot say. how do you know them?

in this state they are following through with this, to be able to be registered you have to jump through hoops its not just a matter of signing up anymore like it used to be, they make the new members complete an exam now. and make them sign a declaration i see, got some papers for some pups the other day, they also say they work behind the scenes and most are not aware of what they do, just take it for granted. So they do do a lot in our state. i don't know about your state. they've also introduced a system to weed out the ones who have multiple registrations under different names so an ID system has been brought in they say. i have no problem with this if it does what they promise it will do, so you see they are trying to do something about puppy farmers. can't please all of the people all of the time. its very hard with thousands of members to police it all you have to remember that. They also have a name and shame in their magazine if breeders contravene the code of ethics we are all made to sign. In the last statement by the president he states that a few members have the potential to give us all a bad name. and i think that is true for the most part. this is where i've always had a problem, why should people who choose to mate their little cross breed pets be given the same rights and have equality? this is where everything is going wrong these days. in days gone by these dogs were known as mongrel dogs today it is mostly the same, they don't go to the trouble we do you all know this what we go through if breeding dogs are done right won't go into that, now they are bred deliberately and bred for money and now these people who mate their dogs want the same rights as us. the world has gone mad in my eyes. and again blind freddy can see why they want to do that that organisation so they can say their members are registered and then they have a right to charge the big bucks for designer dogs cross breeds because they've always wanted to be on an equal par this is their chance now. of course they will when they can see that they can get more $$$ for their pups than being ANKC registered which nowadays is a second class citizen. because all of our dogs are unhealthy inbred beasts according to the media and society. well i rest my case thought that was why. more money eh. huh. 4 times the price and who is going to pay that, they must have rocks in their head the buyers. ofcourse these breeders are claiming they are going to breed healthy pups that are tested but an ANKC reg hobby breeder can do the same thing for quarter of the price. the ANKC don't do anything they just advise the state bodies, its up to the state bodies in each state. and i believe that VCA might be leading the way it seems like it. but still there is alot of work to be done.