ninaandted

What a wonderful thing to have happened. I hope they are both happy together!! I love the new name.

the extended periods of time do work for the fleas - usually! I don't know about the ticks though and I haven't been game to try as we really are a high tick area - I know so many dog people in our area who have had ticks it isn't funny and our cat picks them up just from our vegie patch. it looks like I should stick with the advantix though. maybe I'll have to look at options for doing something about the areas in the yard where they might be picking them up - but goodness knows how I'll do that! crisovar - just read your post - maybe I'll do a bit of a break with those alternatives and go back after a little break.

the tick protection requires that it be applied fortnightly - it's recommended by the manufacturer but I agree - I was wondering if there is some resistance or something going on.

probably about two years ago I think we changed over from frontline to advantix as the frontline just wasn't keeping the adult fleas off our goldie Ted. he is a massive flea magnet - if there is one within a thousand kilometres it will find him. our vet recommended the change as they said the manufacturers had altered the frontline and it wasn't as effective. we now seem to have a similar problem but with both dogs this time even though we are using the advantix. I have my suspicions about a section of our yard that is sandy but obviously can't do anything about erradicating them from this area (if that's the problem), or keep the dogs from it 100% of the time, although their access is severly restricted. but I think the advantix isn't "working" anymore. when we did the change over the results last time were like chalk and cheese and we've managed the problem really well until this last summer. their inside environment is obviously cleaned as much as humanly possible if we find any fleas and we have to do a super duper vacuum every two days anyway. they get a fortnightly treatment in summer with the advantix as we can't use the tick collars with the kids around and we are in a tick area. in winter I usually cut it back to the once a month. the dogs are also washed fortnightly on the recommendation of the vet for Ted's skin condition. (for Ted anyway and Nina just ends up in the water because she loves getting wet). I wait the 48 hours after washing before putting on the treatment. obviously all this is costing a fortune because I'm paranoid about them getting a tick - but if it isn't working for the fleas I'm majorly annoyed! as well as the poor dogs suffering unnecessarily. what are others' experiences with either product at the moment? I'm about to order some more and am wondering if I should try the frontline again instead or if perhaps I'm doing something wrong.

ahhhhh - ellz - that might now be the deciding factor - if we can get a purple one!! :rolleyes: at this stage I'm going to make some enquiries in our local area about someone who might have one and might let me have a go at using it to see if it's any easier or not and look at all the features so I at least know what I should be looking for if we decide to go ahead one day. thanks for all the feedback everyone!

Ted's hot spot is all better now and he hasn't had a recurrance, although he has done the licking of his paw probably once or twice since. he was on the phyohex (spelling?) but the vet said we could alternate or have a rest from it in winter so that we don't completely strip his coat. he said we must use it throughout from oct to march once a week. both dogs are on a BARF diet. i'm quite happy to keep up with the washing if that will help prevent a recurrance but it came about also because Ted had broken through our fence into our pond and it had wet his collar, which stayed wet against his skin. we didn't notice/think to check it and it only took a day or so for that to start the whole hot spot in that warm area under his neck. it was all very quick - poor love. (he was just shoving his head under to catch the fish - we caught him and thought we had dried him all off okay but obviously hadn't and didn't think about the collar being cloth) we are in helensburgh NSW.

I have quite a few customers who like to have their dog bathed weekly. They pay around $25 per week (brisbane prices) and are very happy to do so. Some of them have been doing it for over 5 years now. But each for their own. I can't look in your budget so it is up to you to decide what you want to do. You can buy a new one (at around $1500) or have somebody in for 60 washes.... yeah - it would be great to have a professional do it but we'd have to double the prices as we have two dogs and would end up getting both of them done. good price though - you'd be working hard for your money!!! I think we did used to pay about the same-ish when we had the mobile hydrobath come to us once a month. well to seriously do the comparison... how long would a hydrobath itself last? we are seriously planning (because we are optomists!) that Ted (and Nina) will be with us for at least another ten to fourteen years - if we got something that lasted it might work out okay, especially if we could get it second hand even!!

Dali-love - every week??? I'd love to have a professional groomer do it! we used to get a mobile hydrobath lady come every month too for a while but when it went to weekly it just got to expensive for us, although they hydrobath may well also be a bit OTT! :D

I did a bit of a search here on hydrobaths and found some great details already in some threads but I just wanted some general advice to begin with. our golden retriever was diagnosed during the summer with a nasty hot spot and our vet has us on a program of washing him once a week now with a medicated wash to prevent it happening again. we used to wash him about monthly but went to the weekly as directed which does seem to leave him more comfortable and our house less hairy!! :D that was all fine and dandy during the summer and when I wasn't fat and pregnant! :D but now that I'm bigger and can't bend or deal with Ted's strength it's up to my OH to do. During the hot summer we were just using the hose on the back lawn which was all fine. As it got cooler I used warm buckets of water but now that winter is really here we have moved into the bathtub, which is a less than ideal arrangement. in the opinion of users - would we be better off investing in a hydrobath (I don't even know the prices yet!)? We don't show or anything but our goldie is only four so we have a few years ahead of us of the weekly washing. our other dog (lab x) doesn't need washing as often and is a breeze to wash so she doesn't really factor into the considerations that much, although we still wash her regularly in any case and would use the same arrangements. what do people think? does it make the job easier or is it just as easy to do it in the bathtub? it just means alot of bathroom cleaning for me but I'm trying to think longer term! I also want something easy to encourage my OH to do it without lots of nagging from me because I think he'll be doing it even after I have the bub for a while. any advice would be appreciated.

erny - just so you know I'll be reformatting mine and emailing through to you with my contact details etc on it. just not this weekend! sorry!

erny - mine's late too - sorry! hope it's okay - I kept trying to get it right - there is so much to say it could be a really, really long story!! We have two medium dogs and after attending a group training session with a dog behaviourist/trainer, we witnessed the use of the pressure point collar with one of our dogs and were amazed at the transformation. We subsequently worked with this trainer with both of our dogs as both pulled on the leads in differing manners, one in particular due to an anxiety behaviour brought on by a variety of factors, many of which were beyond our control. This behaviour was apparent in the way she pulled on the lead, as well as other health issues she had. It was imperative for her health that this behaviour and her anxiety be aleviated. Additionally, it was, of course, an issue walking two dogs simultanously, when they both pull, if their combined weight is more than that of the walker! I was also concerned, as I was pregnant at that time, that if I continued to find walking both of them so difficult, that I would eventually have to give up walking them and that they would ultimately suffer. I was initially reluctant, or rather, sceptical, that this kind of collar would make a difference, or not cause any harm to my dogs, however, after being fully trained in their use and educated about they way they work I understood how they actually cause less harm than many of the other collars I was refered to for my dogs. During the time prior to working with the pressure point collar I was referred to a number of collars and at one training session forced to use a check chain collar. I can attest that each and every one of these collars was both ineffective in assisting me in training my dogs not to pull and in some cases caused further anxiety for my dog. Using the pressure point collar I found it easier to play my part in the training, it requires no force to use on the dog, it is not about "yanking", which is particularly useful for a fairly small woman. It is a much clearer and quicker communication tool and with timing in training particularly important to help a dog understand what you are trying to achieve, I found this very useful. Both dogs have taken enthusiastically to this training and welcome the collar going on. The end result of the training is that I have two dogs that I can walk together comfortably and with my baby's pram - something I would never have thought possible before using this collar. Combined with the techniques and exercises we were taught by the trainer and the collar, we have been able to reduce my dog's anxiety and improve her overall health and weight gain, as well as assist her with a number of her anxious behaviours when we went out on walks, but I would have to emphasise that I do not believe that we would have achieved the same result with another collar. As mentioned previously, we had been referred, and worked with trainers, with a number of other collars, which either had no effect or in some cases increased my dog's anxiety. The use of this collar and the work we have been able to do with them with it, has improved the quality of life of both of my dogs, because they can comfortably be taken on walks, but in particular is has assisted my dog with her anxiety.

deelee2, that would be one of the key things - you think you are being pack leader but you're not really. you have no idea how much the pack power has been reinforced with me since I had a baby and went back to work and am routinely sleep deprived and slightly cranky! not too much but enough to be quite convincingly in charge and much less tolerant for any furrykids being bossy back!!

it was ted's. he still walks like that now. he is a star!! doesn't quite adore me like he adored steve but it's still pretty special. we had to go back for the one on one consult with Nina because of her history and anxieties, especially with male trainers but steve had that sorted in about two minutes.

deelee2, I've been in and out of this thread to see how things are going and you've received some great advice. I'm just posting now because your description of your dog and experience matches my nina to a "T". super smart dog at home and super obedient but she was a nightmare to walk. after attending a DOL training day with K9 Force I ended up going back to work with him on Nina with great results. why I'm posting here is that what I discovered was that we had other issues underlying the walking on lead issues. it wasn't a simple case of just pulling, it had to do with behaviours and temperament. once those were addressed then the training on lead was straightforward and happened almost like magic. I'm not a trainer and certainly didn't want to train her for obedience or competition - I just wanted to be able to go for a walk comfortably and I just couldn't. I genuinely tried all of the advice I received here on DOL and tried working with two different trainers over the course of 18 months. there was nothing wrong with the advice I received per se but without the assessment I still would have been struggling. so what I'm trying to say in a round about way - if you are still struggling it would be worth seeing a behaviouralist/trainer and having your dog assessed. there may be other things you are doing or not doing that will make a difference. you don't have to have a dog with "huge" issues for it to be worthwhile having someone observe what you are doing not just from a training "technique" issue (although that can help too). in our case although I was doing NILIF at home and TOT I still wasn't being enough of a leader and nina had other issues that contributed to a level of anxiety during her walks that caused her kind of pulling and behaviours. I was shown ways of addressing those that were appropriate to her. I also found it useful to apply to other aspects of her training as well and we have made alot of progress generally.

as per poodle wrangler we use "Shhhh" and we do go to "shut it!" if it's OTT barking or if they haven't stayed quiet after a "Shhhh". It hasn't inhibited Nina's bark at all as a normal thing believe me! but it will make her quiet if necessary. I only use the "shut it" because I can channel a pretty impressive cranky voice for that one without need of volume or effort on my part. :rolleyes: your friend could pick any word that suited that she wasn't using for another command. like your friend I don't mind a dog that barks as long as it's not nuisance barking. our dogs have saved us from harrassment from a notorious neighbour and for that I'm very grateful for a well placed bark! we did our training initially because Nina had a routine of territory barking when let outside - this wasn't a great thing first thing in the morning as you might guess. in our other training on lead I do make use of a light tug for a correction and a food reward for following instructions, so we spent a few weeks only taking her out on lead and using the morning barking as an opportunity for the "shhh" training (with a tug for a correction if she wasn't quiet and reward for being quiet on command). with Nina I find once she gets the clear message on the meaning of the word then I can go to a just reward system for when she's successful and do the training without a lead - which meant we could take the command inside. we haven't proofed it entirely though and under situations of extreme excitement for her it doesn't work but we may work on that in the future - for now having her quiet in the house on command is great with a baby in the house! your friend could do a similar thing inside i would guess but she may need to set up a situation to cause the barking for the training session (if that makes sense). we just had a fantastic natural one which gave us enough repetition for enough sessions for the lesson to sink it. if the training is too sporadic her success rate may be low or it will take a while for the meaning to sink in. ETA - if your friend's dog only barks in a certain spot - for example at the door or window she may be able to get the dog to stop if the dog is called away from that spot and then not have to train the barking itself at all. (does that make sense). or she may have to employ both techniques depending on the circumstances. For instance, if we have our front door open (we have a screen door) and someone goes past down our street (which is normally a quiet street), Nina may start barking. it may be what I would call a "high excitement situation" for her, for example someone walking a dog down the street. in this instance I know that "Shhh" may or may not work, so if I want her quiet I call her to me and praise her for coming to me. the double benefit is that she also stops barking because she is away from the stimulus. she will also move away from the door on a command for that.

I think I would have to say that such a comment should be caveated by consideration of both the degree of the issue and the practicalities of finding an alternate home with a committed new owner who could handle a dog with issues. I think we all know that in a perfect world it would be an easier solution but from our own rescue section it's apparent that it's not always possible. so meanwhile back in the real world, there will be dogs with some difficulties not necessarily matched with perfect owners. if there is a tool that can be used responsibly that assists in such circumstances I think it is the most viable alternative. an example might be my own two dogs, both medium sized. Both respond to different kinds of training techniques and have different natures. Neither are destructive and through both positive (reward) training and negative (verbal and time out) training we have been able to train them to a level that works with our lifestyle and choices - noting that we don't compete in training and don't participate in any local training groups. However, one area that we had always struggled with was with their walking. We consulted a number of professional trainers and tried a variety of methods for lead training, seeking active advice on this forum as well, however it was only after receiving training with them (again with a recognised, qualified trainer) and using the prong collar that we had any progress with their walking on lead. both have responded beautifully to this training such that they can be walked together, when I take my one year old out in his pram. I would not be happy using the prong collar if I thought that it was routinely uncomfortable. Both dogs welcome having the collar put on as they know it means they are going for a walk but the number of times they now require a correction is absolutely minimal. For our family it has been a very positive experience - coupled with the training we were provided with obviously - I would not have been able to use the collar effectively without that training I must add! It has assisted me to clearly communicate with my dogs, especially in the circumstances of their walking. I'm not convinced that just any amount of time and positive training would have altered their walking behaviour in the same way - believe me - we really did put in the time before going to this option and I can only emphasise the contrast in my experience. It would have been a very disappointing outcome if both dogs had needed to be rehomed simply because of issues with walking, when they are fine and well cared for in every other respect. I do think this provided a good "middle" road and practical solution without cruelty and having to go to the other extreme, with the potential risk that they couldn't be rehomed and had to be put to sleep instead. I completely respect anyone's right or desire not to use such a tool and that not all dogs need them. However, on a case by case basis, with the proper assessment of a qualified individual and good training to back it up (training for the owner more than the dog in regard to use of the collar) I think it is a very practical and useful tool.

tristan, try not to take it to heart - as others have written they might have been reacting in sympathy or amusement. I LOVE seeing guide dogs and dogs in training out and about and I do watch them because it is so amazing to watch. I'm afraid that if I had have seen the puddle I would have been giggling as well - not at you but just at "puppiness". plus, this is good training for your pup because I think anyway, even when they are a fully fledged assistance dog they (and their owners) will always encounter some negativity sometimes in these situations - whether deserved or not. What I'm trying to say is that if you don't let it upset you then flossie won't be phased by it either and that's really the main thing. i don't know how about beginning the toilet training "again" as such - it could have been a one off, there may have been a strange smell that upset her and generally put her "off" on the day. I'd just monitor it and see if you can observe whether the behaviour is related to the shopping centre or what triggers it. ultimately as an assistance dog you'll probably have to "proof" this kind of thing anyway. so don't feel bad - just another opportunity for more training!

from my experience - it depends on the dog - but they do have "collar memory". Nina has none and she had the anti-barking collar for a while. Ted has only ever set it off once but he knows when he has it on. This suits our purpose when he gets in a silly barking mood because he stops when we put it on (without any stim) so we've never bothered to "untrain" this. you might have to go back to the beginning with this girl and make it a really positive experience just having the collar on. she wouldn't have all the great training experiences with it yet!

the concern is meant to be the hydatids as someone else said, but if you use something like sentinel that does the tapeworm as well you should be fine. the main concern is sourcing it from someone who can't identify the cysts (as someone else has said as well). so if you have a "mate" who goes roo shooting and passes you on some meat make sure you keep up worming for tapeworm. anything bought from a butcher or supermarket or reputable source should have been checked.

I'd recommend that they try and book in with steve too. the info sheet is great but there is nothing like the demonstration!! with a committed puller there are often reasons behind the pulling - it isn't necessarily just to be ahead and a comprehensive behaviour program would probably assist these new owners as well. if it is really hurting the wife's arm to walk them it would also be worth speaking to Steve about a prong collar (depending on what state they are in and after getting proper instructions on how to use it!). our goldie was doing imitations of a husky pulling me along the street until we saw Steve and did the class and used the collar. people will probably get upset with me suggesting the collar but it has made a huge difference with our pair, combined of course, with Steve's advice and proper training, as with any training tool. ETA - and it can be as little as a single class with Steve to help with this, so for your boss, it would be perhaps less onerous than going to a class each week (although they can be fun too!)

I too have found my vet to be very flexible and reasonable and he will try and find ways to make sure we don't have to pay more than we need to, like trying to line up both the dogs to get their vaccinations at the same time of year. However, I have noticed in vet "practices", that if you are seeing one of the owners there is more discretion given about charging for every minute you are in the surgery, but when it is the staff vets you get charged the normal rates - probably because they feel like they have to follow the "rules". So the bigger the practice the more likely you are to be charged the standard rates for everything, because the vets you actually see have no discretionary powers. Our local vet takes calls at home, himself, afterhours and very patiently (and amusingly I must say - given the stress of the situation) walked us through removing some ticks from our cat the other week. I actually offered to go in and pay him for his time the next day and he just brushed it off and wished us well. I thought it was a bit above and beyond to take a call from hysterical me at 10 pm! (I didn't realise the time until after I was half way through the conversation and I couldn't get the bl**dy tick off the cat!) If you are happy with the care you receive otherwise and if you really think that they are doing the best they can for Jenna then I'd probably take it on the chin too, like your OH, but if you have any doubts in your mind then it's time to go vet shopping.

what a wonderful story! as usual Steve came through with the goods. And I bet Jeddah was a complete smoocher to Steve too at the sessions you had with him! We are coming along with our Nina too - although her issues aren't aggression - they are anxiety based but being resolved using leadership techniques, but we improve day by day and ironically her affection for us grows with our leadership - which is such a lovely bonus. Good on you Steve, Jeddah, JayGee and your family. I think you should be so proud that you have worked through this and given Jeddah such a new lease on life. It might be a bit of an overstated analogy, but these stories often remind me of the way Helen Keller was helped to break free of her prison of being unable to communicate or experience the world in a positive way - you have freed your dog from it's prison of fear and given it a whole new life and way to express itself. good on you!

all you good NILIFers will be able to correct me if I'm wrong but I thought it was okay for YOU to go to your dog to give a pat etc, but you should ask them to do something if they come to you to ask for pats/ball/food. if both our dogs are calm and being good then I try and reinforce this behaviour by giving pats and rewards. we probably aren't consistent when it comes to pats on the lounge. If one of the dogs comes up for a cuddle at night (which is the only time they do this usually), then we just enjoy the cuddle and don't ask them to do anything which is probably very naughty on our part. I was going to actually post a question about this to find out what other people asked their dogs to do for rewards when around the house. We're becoming a bit bored with "sit", "drop" and "shake" but just want something simple and quick the dogs can do to "earn" what they want.

Sounds like our neighbour is visiting your place! we had the same threats and abusive treatment from ours. it is bizarrely unreasonable too as our neighbour was actually tormenting the dogs to MAKE them bark, plus he isn't home for most of the day so he only hears about two minutes of barking as he goes in and out of his house, unless he was stopping to tease them! I'd try the soft muzzle before the barking collar unless you can get some advice from a behaviourist before using the collar. we were using one on Nina to try and get her to stop barking at the neighbour - who then upped the ante by deliberately teasing both dogs and stressing Nina out even more. Unfortunately the collar then added to her stress instead of breaking the cycle in this case, but it works a treat for Ted who just barks because he can! we keep our two inside now and it has helped alot - both with their sensitivity to the nasty man, Nina's anxiety in general and my peace of mind. but our pair are extraordinarily well behaved inside. we haven't had any destruction. the neighbour hasn't said a word to us since bringing them inside. I think he's kind of missing getting his jollies from tormenting them while we were out and then abusing us about it. nutter! we contacted the police and were told that he was just being a "public nuisance" and that they couldn't do anything about it. but I think I was just being fobbed off. I've been advised since that we could have complained about the abuse we copped, even if they weren't willing to do anything about the threats to the dogs.

I just had to update to add that we didn't clip or shave any part of Ted as a result of eveyrone's feedback but yesterday I saw my first fully clipped Golden Retriever walking down the street! while I wasn't intending to clip him all over - this dog was (except for the tail and the legs). It was one of the more bizarre dog things I've seen in a while! oh - and you were all right - it was a SHOCKER! As I saw it approaching I was trying to figure out just what kind of dog it could possibly be. It wasn't until I saw him up close and saw the tail and the legs and the clipping marks that I figured out what he was!! there may have been some medical or other reason why he had been clipped but it did look very strange. He was still smiling though! Possibly he hadn't looked in a mirror for a little while!