Ruin Maniac

Also hoping you are both recovering. My parents stopped walking my childhood dogs (thank heavens for large yards and plenty of play time) because of dogs and owners like the man you described. As horrible as it is for the well behaved dogs, I honestly think that authorities should enforce dogs being walked on-lead at all times, and that there should be fines for people who don't comply. Sadly that doesn't stop large aggressive dogs from wrestling away from their owners, though.

Zander the Husky/Samoyed cross tracks his owner to hospital 3km away... twice. "The couple believe Zander, who they rescued from a pound five years ago and nursed back to health from starvation, tracked Mr Dolan to the hospital by his scent. "I don't know how he got there, I've never taken him there," Priscilla Dolan said. A few days later Zander tried to visit Mr Dolan a second time but was caught by somebody as he was walking to the hospital." I don't think most people give dogs the credit they deserve for their love and loyalty sometimes. It's nice to see a story like this in the headlines, rather than dog attacks.

That doesn't sound too complicated. :) Is it better to drive/fly out and visit the dog in person before they are brought home though? Has anyone had any experiences with that? I know puppies are flown out fairly often, but what about an older dog that's a little more shaped personality and behaviour wise?

All of this information and advice has been extremely reassuring and helpful. PetRescue has so many dogs it's as wonderful (in that people are helping homeless dogs) as it is sad (in that anyone would choose or have to abandon them). I'm particularly saddened by dogs owned by older couples who've had to retire to homes (and those dogs are often seniors themselves). I'll start getting in touch with some of the rescue groups. Just letting them get a rough idea of what I'm looking for and my situation/lifestyle would be appropriate? What's the standard procedure as far as interstate adoption goes if I find a dog I like in, for example, Perth?

Thank you, Staffyluv :) Should I be asking them about those tests or potential temperament issues, or will a good shelter lay them on the table first? The age limit I've encountered with Victorian Dog Rescue and a few independently run shelters I've contacted to ask questions. I think people are concerned I will treat a pet like an accessory to the home and not a family member. Ideally, I'd prefer a dog I adopted to have issues that weren't extreme. This would be the first dog I've been fully responsible for and I'm not sure my experience would be adequate enough to help them overcome issues such as extreme aggression, fear or destructive behaviour. If I took the chance, I'd also worry that, if these things were taking considerable time to improve, the neighbours or landlord might put it at risk of being evicted from the house. I would therefore not be offering a dog like that the chance it deserves to a good quality life. Timidness, rehabilitation for injuries and lack of training are things I'd be willing to dedicate myself to improving, however. And of course I will be considerate of the fact that the dog is in a completely new environment and will need time to become comfortable. A house pet isn't something you can pull out of a hat, I'll do whatever I can to make the transition as smooth as I can when the time comes. That's no problem. :)

Of course there is a difference between a dog who has been sold buy a buyer, unbeknownst to the breeder, to a pet shop and a breeder who actively offers litters to pet shops. I registered on this forum when I heard the story of Leo the poodle. I felt extremely sorry for the poor breeder from whom he was originally purchased, because his buyer thoughtlessly gave him away to someone who ended up being a puppy farmer. Her ordeal was almost as horrible as Leo's. I would want to know the circumstances behind the arrival of a registered puppy in a pet store before I judge, but if they were sold directly and purposefully by the breeder? I can't think of any excuses for it. If there are stories from the opposite side of the fence that can offer legitimate reasons for a registered breeder to supply pet shops, I'd be happy to read about them. I'm not blind to the perspectives of others.

Hi everyone, Some of you may have seen my thread in the Puppy Problems forum regarding my search for a companion dog. As well as being offered some fantastic advice, I have also been reassured that there are some common misconceptions about rescue dogs and that I shouldn't disregard them based on what some say. This is a relief to me, since a rescue dog was the first avenue I began to pursue when I decided I would like a new companion. However, adopting a rescue dog seems to be a different set of hurdles, and I want to be prepared for them. The age limit of 25 has been a setback when I've looked to adopt from some shelters, even when I've felt a dog there could be right for me. I am an adult, independent and financially secure but I am renting (a dog friendly home). Am I going to be seriously limited by my situation and age? I understand why these things will raise concerns, and I know that many people my age can be highly irresponsible and have little knowledge of how serious a commitment dog owning is. What can I do to prove that I'm aware that a dog is a serious investment of time, finances and care? Is there such a thing as a bad rescue? I ask this because I was given accounts (I cannot confirm these, they are second hand) by multiple people of horrible experiences when adopting pets. Among others, these include: Adopting a dog that was child-aggressive, unknown at the time of adoption, and having to have it PTS as they were told the rescue would do the same because it has bitten someone. Adopting a dog that was terrified of people raising their hands, even to reach something. Would immediately begin to growl and could not be touched until she settled. Adopting a dog that was fine with women, but hated men. I accept that they may be exaggerated and even biased, but I would like some reassurance and would like to know what kind of questions I need to ask before adopting a dog and also whether there are warning signs about rescue facilities, volunteers and animals that I should be keeping an eye out for. I am determined to either get a rescue dog or a dog from a reputable breeder. I cannot and will not support anyone that uses puppies for profit. So any advice you can offer will be appreciated a great deal. If you do decide to have a look at my thread in Puppy Problems, and you think you may have a suitable dog for my situation, I'd also be happy to hear from you. Thanks everybody :)

I still have the tab saved for reference. Let's see :) Border terriers Italian greyhounds Portuguese water dogs Standard schnauzers I think the schnauzer is probably the more suitable of the four :)

No worries about the long post, Minimax. I appreciate your input :) Yeah, the house we have now is not modern but it's large and it's lovely, in a quiet area about an hour out of the city. I'm not the kind of person that enjoys living in the inner city and apartments feel cramped to me even when they're larger than normal. I prefer being a little further out, a little more down to earth. I also love the smell of grass and eucalyptus :) With everything I've been offered as food for thought, I do still think one dog would be best at my experience level, but I'm really glad to hear it worked out so well for you. I'm also pleased to hear you've kept in touch with their breeders - I just feel like that's a good idea and a token of respect. I can't imagine it would do any harm as long as it doesn't border on stalking them. lol Dancinbcs, absolutely agreed, regarding welfare in some countries. I've been travelling in the Middle East on holiday before and witnessed the conditions of animals there. Not to mention that I only ever encountered one vet in any major city, and that was Istanbul. I cried in Konya because a friendly, rake thin retriever puppy had a badly damaged leg and I was told there was nowhere I could take him by our guide. Just horrible My intention if I moved overseas would be to live there permanently, and thankfully my field is dog-friendly. It wouldn't be right to put a dog through quarantine more than is absolutely necessary. America, France and Germany look like viable options with the direction my studies are taking, but my specialization (when it's finally complete) won't limit me to any particular area of the world. I could stay here as long as long as employers continued to offer work. I will definitely begin to investigate shows and am planning to head to a picnic with a club later this month. I'll write up a list of questions and observe and interact (where permitted) with the dogs. Get a feel for them. Even if it doesn't work out, I'll have the pleasure of meeting some stunning examples of dogs :)

Okay, let's get this reply on the go. :) Everyone has given me so much to consider. Definitely I'll have to be sure I have all the right resources available and that my living situation is right for, or can at least be adapted without a complete overhaul, for my future dog. I am renting at this point, and likely will be renting in the same area at least until I complete my masters, I'm thinking around 5 more years. Once that's complete, however, I will probably move interstate or (potentially, but not definitively) overseas for work. Another reason I hope to bring my dog with me on my shorter legs of travel is so that I won't be throwing them off the deep end if I decide to move a considerable distance away. My intention, however, is to take the dog with me. That said, I understand that this may raise red flags for breeders, and I respect that. I want to make it extremely clear that I too want what is best for the dog and I do not want to end up being someone who abandons a pet. Not when I chose to be responsible for its entire life. If the breeder thinks being that mobile would be too much, then I would be grateful for their honesty and respectfully withdraw. I imagine that if a breeder is willing to give me the opportunity to care for a dog, it would be good to set up a means of keeping them updated frequently for both the purpose of reassurance and so that, should they recognize anything about the dog's physiology, behaviour or environment that may an issue, I can make sure I'm making the right changes or seeking help from the right people to remedy it. Would that be going too far? I'm not so much worried about being pulled around by a dog. My aim is to leash train them properly before they reach their adult weight. My thought was if a large, heavy dog was in the line of or was hit by a car (heaven forbid that ever happens), or got stuck, or was being threatened by another dog, I may not be able to physically remove it from the situation at my size. It may be an irrational fear though, since those scenarios should be unlikely if I'm training the dog properly and keeping the property secure. Can anyone comment there? Am I being crazy? Some other breeds that would otherwise be suitable worry me due to public perception of them, and the ridiculous ways in which Victoria has been dealing with so-called "dangerous" breeds. I had a friend with a German Shepherd back in my homestate whose neighbour was terrified of her dog, despite the fact that it was extremely well trained, friendly and quiet. The dog would just lay there and watch her through the fence, and she flipped. She went over to their home demanding that the dog be removed, called the police and RSPCA multiple times and even threatened to have someone come and shoot the dog. When that didn't work, she threw things at it from over the fence. All because of a completely irrational fear. A very similar problem happened to a friend with a weimaraner, which ended up having rocks thrown at it by local teens, and was destroyed when it managed to escape through the door while one of the culprits walked by and bit them. People are just awful sometimes :/ Grooming I'm willing to pay for. It's another expense I need to be prepared for along with vet appointments, training, keeping registration up to date and such. The cost of a dog is a big and ongoing one and I'm prepared to take the bills on. The priority would be to ensure I'm not damaging the coat by making a mess out of it (I agree that bushland is no place for a long haired dog) or clipping it fully, and keeping the dog comfortable temperature-wise. It sounds like a smooth or short haired dog would be the best option. Regarding cost, is insurance a logical thing to invest in? Or is it better to keep money aside and pay up front if something unexpected occurs? I've been checking out Pat Hasting's stuff and it's fantastic. Very informative. Thanks for suggesting it :)

As an outsider and onlooker, I would have thought that no breeder who cares about the future of their puppies would sell to a pet shop. A pet shop clerk will sell a dog to anyone that looks like they might spend the money on it. Nevermind their living situation, history with animals and lifestyle. This, as you all would know, can be the equivalent of or even literally a death sentence for the puppies that are sold. No dog lover would risk that. I've occasionally stopped to watch puppies in pet shops (because, while pet shops and puppy mills disgust me, puppies are pretty difficult not to "coo" over) and been approached by clerks who explain that the dogs are "purebred with papers" and came from "a good breeder who just doesn't have time to sell the litter". This is a commonly spun tale a certain chain which recently had a huge parvo outbreak. A good breeder should have planned well in advance of a litter, and in the case of unexpected circumstances should also have contacts in the dog world who could help them find suitable homes for their puppies. I just cannot see a breeder with any self-respect and love for their dogs surrendering the puppies they breed to an unknown fate. It doesn't make any sense. So while I imagine registered breeders do sell to pet shops, that breeder probably shouldn't be registered. The qualification means nothing if they aren't responsible or ethical. So the debate, in my opinion, is pointless. I know that when my research is done and I start applying for dogs, I am going to have to leap through hoops for breeders or fosters. I'm probably going to be rejected by some, others may give me a chance along with a hell of a lot of homework to do (ongoing contact, proof of care, etc.). I am nervous about it, but a good rescue or breeder wants what's best for their dogs and so do I. Personally, I think no potential dog owner who has done any real research into dog owning would consider a pet shop dog either. They are just a disaster all 'round :/

Excellent advice and suggestions, everybody. Thank you so much. I've been checking back and will write some replies in more detail a bit later as I'm writing my final assignment for this semester. :) I'm taking down breed names and making a list, going to different web resources to get as much information as possible for each breed (some accounts differ vastly from others). I also took that K9 Country questionnaire and it gave me around 93 breeds varying in match with the lifestyle I described from 80-100% (although since it's a multiple choice thing, I know it won't be wholly accurate and will still require further research on my behalf). Please continue to post if you have advice and questions and I will be writing in more detail again later. You've all been extremely helpful in highlighting the considerations I need to take!

Minimax - to clarify just in case, I am younger than 25 and that's the minimum age limitation. I definitely agree that many people under the age of 25 do not understand how to care for pets, or not financially capable of doing so. I feel that I am in a different situation because I am financially secure and do want to take every measure I can in ensuring my dog's wellbeing and being certain I am capable of meeting the needs they have, which is why I'm posting here and taking into account everyone's opinions and advice. I'm very passionate about dogs and I consider the responsibility of caring for one to be quite similar (especially in your duty to them) to caring for a child. Sadly though, I have had discussions with people my age and older who feel very differently. People who genuinely love their pets, but don't really understand how to care for them properly. I don't want to become one of those people. A puppy from a registered breeder with parents whose medical (and genetic, if possible) history is known and who has seen other litters would make me feel more comfortable, but I do agree with you, dogs are unique individuals and things can happen in a dog's early life that may result in the issues described. I am basing my decision on experiences that have been recounted to me by others with rescue dogs, but understand they may be biased and if you know of a reliable shelter that might consider me I'd love to know more. A rescue dog was my first preference, but again, I'm seeking reliable guidance so I do what's right. :) Your dogs sound absolutely adorable, you must love them. I have heard that an older, trained dog can help a new puppy to adjust, but I definitely won't take more than I think I can handle at any one time. One dog is perfect as long as I can keep them happy and prevent them from being lonely, which would be awful and is why I feel it's important that my dog accompanies me when I travel. A partner in adventure, I guess :)

Megan - Some training advice I've been reading has a lot of recommendations regarding teaching a dog to settle, in situations such as arriving home or getting into a car and just in general. Basically, it suggests making sure your dog feels safe and relaxed in their home, and avoiding making a big fuss over those every day scenarios and rewarding quiet, relaxed behaviour. I have also read that enthusiasm, positive reinforcement and making training a fun experience is the best way to go. Would that be accurate? "Mine aren't destructive - although one is an avid knickers thief - and have dug one or two teeny little holes." I am prepared for these things to happen, because a dog will eventually destroy something (especially puppies). That doesn't bother me so much as long as I am aware of and can discourage more negative behaviours. Thank you also for the advice regarding joint development and exercise, that's very important and I will be sure to avoid risking damage :)

Minimax - I actually investigated rescue dogs first, but sadly I'm not 25 (which is an age limitation a fair few rescues have) and having spoken to some other dog owners and the groomer I've mentioned previously, I understand that sometimes rescue dogs can have serious issues as the result of separation trauma, lack of training or abuse. There's also the uncertainty in some cases of their lineage, past experiences and medical history. I felt like that could be a serious problem, and while I've seen some lovely dogs in rescue listings, I decided that it's probably not the best option for me at this point in my life and experience (and I do actually feel awful in admitting this). Although I'm okay with taking a mature dog whose background and history is known, if someone is no longer capable of caring for them. It doesn't have to be 10 weeks old, since I'm buying a dog and a dog is what all puppies become :) I'm planning to stay within the city if I do have a young dog (no huge legs of travel) and I'm okay to exercise without it until it's capable of keeping up, but I'd love a dog who, over their rough lifespan of 15 years, would enjoy the exercise and travel :)

I appreciate that advice, Rebanne. I do not want to exhaust a dog. Would a medium size dog be more appropriate (understanding that it will depend on the breed)? I'd be more comfortable with something under 40 kilos as I myself am only 45. Preferably in the 15-30 range. I'm not afraid of larger dogs (borzois and airedales are two I especially love), but I would worry if I had to physically move them in an urgent situation (if there's an accident or risk of one occurring) or for whatever reason they are spooked while walking. :) Thanks for clearing up the clipping, too. I have heard that some people don't approve of it from groomers but I haven't known why until now. I know a lot of pet owners who get a full clip frequently throughout the year, so it's good to get a professional's opinion. :) I would love to tag along to my friend's shows, but she lives in another state. I can get onto her about show setups though, and it's probable that she knows other people who show here. I'll get in touch with her today. Looking at Schnauzers and Kerry Blues, I am also looking at Irish, Welsh and Soft Coated Wheatens. Is this still too small a dog? Would any of those be too much to handle?

Thank you too for your reply, Megan! Really glad I took the groomer's advice and asked here :) Definitely the dog will be travelling with me. I'm hoping to get them used to cars and trains from an early age, and they may fly in future (and perhaps very young if I choose a breeder from another state). I do love schnauzers and many terriers with similar builds. There's something very elegant about them, but I've never interacted with them in person before. Jogging in the early morning though would be fine, I do just that in summer. :) My research tells me that they need to be kept entertained due to their hunting instincts. What kind of environment would be best for them on their own (indoor or outdoor) and what kind of things could I do to keep them entertained if the house is empty for an hour or two? Are they the kinds of terriers that are persistent with digging and exploring? The backyard has a 6 ft high fence with concrete beneath, but only to a certain point. Should I be mindful of that?

Thanks Rebanne :) I agree with starting with one dog. I will definitely take into consideration coat type and the kind of activity I'm doing. I do occasionally go into very regional areas which could definitely lead to some muddy/grassy paws, but mostly I visit urban areas (Bendigo, Ballarat) and friends and relatives in their houses. Would it be worth keeping a short coat during the summer months for the purposes of keeping the dog cool, and also because summer is generally when I go to the bushland?

My goodness, thank you both so much for your helpful replies. :) I've had dogs in my childhood but this will be my first experience being solely responsible from day one. I appreciate your advice regarding getting a pair, if it will make it more difficult to train them then I'm not giving them the best chance and that wouldn't be fair. The dog will have access to the yard and bottom floor of the house while any of us are absent, I'll be sure to research and ask about suitable toys. :) Thank you, MalteseLuna, and I agree; it sounds like a maltese may not be the best option for my current lifestyle. I definitely don't want to put a dog at risk of exhaustion or harm if I don't know their limits. What kind of events would be appropriate to meet dogs of specific breeds and ask questions? I certainly don't want to interrupt a professional when they are busy. My friend who shows border collies has demonstrated that it's definitely not an effortless or easy thing to do! Are there times in these situations where it would be appropriate to interact with the dogs and their owners? I know there's a popular walking park nearby that's favoured by dog owners, so I may try and include that in my jogs. Otherwise, is it rude to enquire as to visiting a breeder's property just to see if the breed is right for me? I am definitely willing to brush dogs daily if necessary and absolutely to visit a groomer frequently (and especially for summer in Victoria). I have between 12-19 contact hours of class a week and that's spread out fairly well, and I work evenings on weekends. Over the summer though, I have no classes and am hoping to have plenty of time to help a puppy adjust. lilli, I'm certainly open to investigating other breeds, since I definitely don't want to get a dog I'm not compatible with. I'll look the smooth collie up :) My major concerns with size are related to my own relative body size (I was once walked by a friend's young german shepherd, lol), and being sure I am giving them the right level of exercise (my jogs are about 30-60 minutes with up to 1-2 hours of walking each day). I'll also do some more research into miniature poodles. There appear to be quite a few breeders registered, which ought to mean there'll be some really useful information out there.

Hello everyone. Oddly enough, I registered here some time ago when I was linked by a close friend to a thread about a poodle (named Leo, I believe?) who had experienced serious trauma and abuse at the hands of puppy farmers. In the end, I was so upset by the situation that I struggled to keep up. But I am glad I registered, as I come here now with a positive attitude and seeking advice. I have been living in Melbourne now for some time, and have recently moved from university accommodation into a large, dog friendly home (large yard, low traffic, large recreational areas nearby. I have been granted permission to keep small dogs. I know that dogs are a lifelong commitment, and are not to be taken into a home on a whimsy. I have been making financial preparations so as to cover the early expenses (the dog itself, vaccinations, registration, micro-chipping, desexing, puppy classes, general supplies) and also savings for the long term for vet appointments, grooming and any emergencies. I live an active lifestyle with a lot of walking, jogging and travelling around Victoria and interstate. I would love a dog who would enjoy an active lifestyle, but as I'm not experienced with large, headstrong breeds and am physically small, I'm looking at dogs in the smaller size range. I'm not looking to show or breed a dog, just looking for a friend. I recently went to a pet supplies warehouse (not a pet shop, since I refuse to support stores and especially chain stores that sell live animals) and spoke to a lovely lady who is a groomer, dog owner and passionate about canine behaviour. I explained my situation and, as she understood my concerns about backyard breeders and pet stores, recommended I speak to the breeders here at Dogz Online. She has purchased two of her (gorgeous) dogs from breeders listed here, and assured me that you are all extremely knowledgeable, honest and reliable. Again, I was glad I had already registered. I mentioned that I was looking at a few breeds in particular, and possibly a pair (though not for breeding purposes - definitely no). The reason I thought a pair may be good is that, although someone is almost always home, I don't want to leave a dog for any length of time without company. A pair could help to alleviate boredom, anxiety and loneliness. The lady agreed with my reasoning, but suggested either getting one dog before the other so as to dedicate my efforts into training and socializing it, or if they arrive at the same time to train them both independently of each other to avoid confusion. So my first question is, what do you, as experienced owners and breeders, think is best? Is a pair a good idea? Should one be settled in and trained before the other arrived? Would it be better to introduce them both at the same time and train them separately? Does this depend on the breed/personality of the individual dogs? When I described the breeds I'm interested in, she made some suggestions. I've been looking at West Highland Whites, but she told me they can be surprisingly stubborn if you are not careful, and suggested that a Scottish Terrier may be a better choice to start with. I like both breeds, but I'd loved to hear any advice and opinions you may have for someone who would be new to them. Kerry Blue Terriers are beautiful dogs, but I've heard they are incredibly intelligent and energetic and can become bored easily. I've also read about male-to-male dog aggression doing online research. Would this dog breed be a bad choice for someone with relatively limited experience? I'm also interested in Maltese and Tibetan Terriers, Poodles (miniatures and toys), Low-Chens and Miniature Schnauzers. Would anyone be able to offer reliable sources of information about these breeds, or be able to comment from experience? I am not in any way afraid to dedicate abundant time and effort into dogs. They need to be a priority, as pets are family members and not a secondary-thought. I am willing to put in the effort of learning as much as I can and putting that into practise. I do not want to become a number among those who abandon dogs because they couldn't give them the care they need. I want to be serious. Any information you have about selecting the right breed, breeder and puppy would be fantastic. Any advice as to their care, community resources and anything else I should consider before taking on this new responsibility would be fantastic. Any questions you may have for me that are relevant to the wellbeing of my potential future dogs I will answer honestly. This is a big challenge and anything you have to say will be respected and appreciated. Please ask if you want me to elaborate on any specifics and I will. I'm just trying to do as much as I can to prepare and be certain that I myself am prepared. EDIT: Oh, and I also wanted to ask you whether or not pet insurance (accident and medical cover) is worth investigating? Would it benefit my dog? Thanks :)