zoiboy

This title is given to dogs and bitches who have a number (yes there is a spesific number, i just don't recall what it is) who have champion get that ALSO have good hip and elbow scores.

The title of Reproductive Champion is also awarded to males in Italy :)

*cough Translated from Italiana to English I can't believe I got the spelling right, well, yes I can. oh boy I dfo not speak or write Italian, ya get that, I'm not brilliant with english either. I was reading the words above *solid black*. not sure what you were refering to but as eye's were the subject I added a bit to it. Mixeduppup has a nice boy and i do like his eye's.

I know it seems to be in it's infancy but Rosemary has been breeding for more years than I can say for sure and all the while she was importing and SHOWING good working dogs. I would have to chat with her as to what award's her dogs have recieved over the years as the only one I am sure of is Freya's BEST PUPPY IN SHOW under that nice man from Canada.

Why would this dog or any dog [ Maremma] have more chance of hypothyroidism than any other symptom of a lack of Tryosinase. Ive never met a Maremma with hypothyroidism but just this week I met another Maremma which had just had a tumor removed which co incidentally had a lack of the correct pigment. The tumor was not on its nose. And yes as already stated humans also have the same issues caused by the same things. MUP More research is always good and essential if you are ever considering breeding them. Gee you have been lucky Steve. I have met a few with hypothyriodism, gee I bred one of them. It happens in our breed and far more often than we would like to admit. The great shame is that there is no test for it really, best we can do is a blood pannel each year.

Quote tralee... He does have lovely eyes but they are not the solid black or 'castagna' eyes that are so highly prized. end quote Check your standard as this boy has Ochra eye's. The standard calls for Ochra to Chestnut Brown. Those lovely dark eye's are not as correct as they could be. My personal faveriot dog of all time had those lovely Ochra eye's and he could kill with a look :))

Say ciao for me at the Festival. I would still like to see the undulating lip removed from our dogs But hips elbows and eye's????????? I would like to see the deap stop (that tends to go with the droopy lip) fade away as well. In a perfect world these things would be possible.

Concentrating on the minor fault of pigmentation to the exclusion of other minor faults is just plain and simple bias. For example, the lip of the dog should be straight not undulating. Got any dogs in mind that do not have an undulating lip? Following the argument about pigmentation, dogs with undulating lip should not be used for breeding programs. Good point isn't it. I think we may be at an impasse, shouldn't you concede? Pigment is only ONE thing to be thought of. I actaully START with hips elbows, eye's and thyriod.. This assumes that I like the pup enough to want to concider him/her in the first place. Breeding and showing/working is not for the faint of heart and I do it as it's a hobby. Next the Italian festival..................

Chalice was PTS, as it turns out due to the meddling and interference of an incompetent Ranger and inept Council. Arawn Bladewyn Chalice (jelly chali; jelly bean) 19:07:2008 - 25:08:2012. RIP ] I am VERY VERY sorry that you have lost Chalice. Loosing a young heathy dog to outside interference is never easy. RIP Chalice.

YES !!!!!! You can if you want, but dictating to Mother Nature is never wise. If I produce 40 puppies and one has a pink nose, does that mean the other 39 are not viable. If so, then what about the little puppy bitch born with full and complete pigment, all her skin and every toe nail solid black? Could you get her out of two other dogs? Good point isn't it. The colour is genetic but not only that it is polygenetic and involves many genes. You're implying it is a simple dominant/recessive mechanism. Nothing, could be further from the truth. You do get touchy :) but I am saying YES !!! to the suggestion that we should all aviod breeding with any dog that is depigmented. Strong complete black pigment is very important. Steve has given me some handy new lines of inquirey as well. But as a good start the advice would be, use the best dogs with the strongest pigment. I am not even implying that I actually understand the mode of inheritance actually. But so far I have only produced one that is some what depigmented and I am CERTIAN she will make no contrubition to the gene puddle.

I think as the division between "work" & "show" lines increases and it's already happening just as in other working breeds, there will be an even bigger increase in the cottony pelt that does not easily shed. Coated breed individuals that retain and don't easily blow their coat are desirable, regardless of it being correct. I certianly hope your wrong about this as that cottony soft coat is the pits to prep for a show and even worse to live with in general. Like the lack of pigment, breeding with individals with this coat is like breeding with individuals with a lack of pigment. DON"T do it would be my take home message.

Your boy has LOVELY EYE's !!! I would test him for a thyriod imballance personally as it is more common than some would like to believe. At some point tralee mentioned that he has a bitch with no pigment and he wants to breed her. To my mind that is a bad idea. The gene sequance inheritance is complicated and not well understood. BUT the fact remains that it is not at all desirable and the first way to stop seeing this is to not breed with affected dogs...........

YES !!!!!!

As a groomer, that's one of the things I didn't get to see. It's a great shame, but lack of pigment and level bites are my hobby horses for the moment. Good coats are easy to correct :)

Pigment is taken VERY seriously in Pyreneans. We don't have any disqualifying faults in the Standard here in Aust (as the current one is the UK one despite us trying to change it to country of origin), but it is pretty much beaten into us from the beginning how important pigment is, so breeders are all pretty wary of it and it is usually emphasised in judges training. This below is included the standard for the Maremma, so I would think it is a matter of ensuring judges and breeders take heed of the standard? Who does the judges training for the breed?: Pigment is stressed at judge training. Pigment is VERY important as is a harsh servicable double coat that sheds out with little to no help at all!!!

I recently asked someone who own farmbred maremmas why they don't buy from a reg breeder and they are under the impression that show maremmas are not as tough as the farmbred ones and also people who are reg breeders of maremmas are few and far between and picky about who they sell to, so they may need 3 or 4 good maremmas yet be denied any. So there's a few reasons. This may well be a reason given by farmers, but as often as not they do not have any wish to pay for well bred and warrented pups. On the other side of that tho, I had a lady phone me about pups (the pups were 4 weeks old at the time) and after I told her how much they were she was sending her son the following day to collect one. Boy was she annoyed when I muttered she just became the very last person I would ever sell to. I have a great deal invested in my dogs and i do not want pups I have bred ending up in rescue or being disrespected in any other ways if i can aviod it. Oh and the hips may well have been bad for many years Steve, it's just not noticed as it's not tested for.....

i should actually amend that statement as while the number (144) is correct it is a national figure. Espinay, I wish that the Maremma was in a similar boat to the Pry's. The numbers of unregistered breeders producing large numbers of Maremma is frightening.

According to the data I have Charles and Sandra Curwen Hollinsdale Kennels registered the first in 1984. This site has a great deal of info if your curious. http://www.maremmano.com/breeding_numbers/australian_breeding_statistics_to_2000.html n the last 12 months there have been 144 pups registered with RNSWCC or DogsNSW.

If there is evidence then it is well hidden. The fact is that ALL the original WORKING dogs came from the UK. Kyber was used extencivly at stud and it is difficult to find a Maremma who does not have him behind it. KC (Knight Commander) was also used extencivily (perhaps more so than Kyber) and he was from a show kennel in Sweden. Lola went to the UK in whelp from Italy and then much later arrived in Australia with a couple of her pups. They are behind ALL PMA who were not brought in in the last few years. There have been very few due to the cost and difficulitys with regulations.

When have i ever said that every PMA is a show dog? I do not believe that dog with SHY or AggRESSIVE temperaments should be held up as ACCEPTALE. Overly Shy and overly Agggressive are to be avioded.. Showing has been going on a long time now and the rules of the game are (for the most part) quite clear. The dog should bbe clean, well groomed WELL TRAINED and stand STILL for the judge. How is this hard to understand?

[quote name='WreckitWhippe But are you really getting somewhere as a breed ? or will the breeders have managed to produce some "generic" show dogs ? It comes back to is the Maremma really suited to the show ring and is showing in the best interests of the breed? I would hope that most of the Maremma breeders are looking at breeding sound even tempered working dogs that are ass close to the standard as possible. Now it is possible that now and then we will find a dog that is not only sound and typical but also has a temperament that will show off some what. I would also contend that the Maremma is not the only breed that is not universally suited to the show ring. This does not mean they should not be shown at all.

i am not a judge and only a some times exibitor. i have chosen a breed that is not a *showy* breed. Years ago I asked the lovely and late John Cowdrey why it was that noone looks at the Maremma. He said that for him (and he only spoke for himself) it all boiled down to the fact that they fade into the background. Ok now I have some thing to work towards, if I wish, but at the time I was just very happy as that is what I want from a good Maremma. The working dog ring has some really nice and very showy breeds that are extreamly popular. When we have a few dogs that can beat the big winners then we are getting some where. Me ? I am very happy to produce good sound working dogs and just maybe the odd show dog.

This is pretty much the case and it is difficult to fight. First impressions tend to stick and a lot of judges have been shown shy dogs. It's easy to say it is correct for a Maremma or any other breed should behave like that. If you do not have anythingg else to go on them it's believable. There was a person showing who liked to tell people that the dog wa EXPECTED to bite anyone so much as touching that people. This is NOT I repeat NOT true.

Well actually, steve quite correctly believes this as it is stasticially true. Originally there were 117 imported and there were 3 in the very early 2000's. 2011 and after has seen the import of 4 dogs and a pregnant bitch. OH just read it here for yourself http://www.maremmano.com/breeding_numbers/australian_breeding_statistics_to_2000.html http://www.maremmano.com/breeding_numbers/australian_breeding_statistics_to_2011.html these are a little out of date ut you'll all et the idea.

:thumbsup: :rofl: Well said !!! I feel very sorry for the pup ass it is going to be blamed for the cats bad manners and lack of respect.