inez

Hopefully edited to make sense? Did not realise that asking any question was deemed as having lodged a "complaint" ? Yes,I am (well I was) curious, watching the puppy thread unfold, the puppy buyer was told by all and sundry, if it cannot win then your entitled to your money back. The breeder has offered to take the pup back and all agreed this was the only ethical thing the breeder could do. (Have to admit did find myself wondering what if the breeder might have been expected to suppy a third replacement pup, and found myself wondering how many replacements was a buyer entitled to) Yet looking back at the two who gave up their dream of founding a family of good dogs, for the reasons listed above you say that such sad outcome is "complaining" that in their case they bought with the intention of becoming a breeder of quality pups. In neither case did the dogs come up to scratch yet they are not entitled to the same curtesy as the pet/show pup owner? Either way, as was commented above. all I said is complaints? No I rarely post. It is safer to read and say nothing. That way you do not attract attack. Perhaps i was wrong to ask. The first question began me thinking about the case of the two i just mentioned. Apologies for making the mistake of asking. Why bother wondering why show entries are down then? Thats two that I know (and now you also know as well) why they are gone. Goodness and Light or nothing. You can rest in peace, lesson learnt. No more questions.

sorry to laugh, (I hope your meaning it as read to raise a laugh) but maybe my friend might feel a little less lonely ill pass that on.

forgot to add, finally did have two nice girls passed all testing and did well in the ring. many years down the track two pups did develop HD scores by which time the dam had been retired. now the breeder is a mess wondering how many others are going to come knocking. and yes both bitches have been desexed and no longer breeding that breed. but why arent the breeders of the dogs supplied equally responsible? they were purchased in good faith, passed all tests yet as the breeder of the affected pups is wearing the guilt and the accusation of breeding faulty dogs? yet did not breed the parents of these two pups, their breeders are off the hook, i can understand the despair anyway.

i agree, but i dont know the answer in the case of that scenario. Another I watched unfold was another friend who has successive show bought puppies and ran on, hopfully to do well in the ring and later with the intention of starting their own kennel, fail their hip scores and rehomed for free so significant loss there, then decided to import a what she was told was a top quality pup and pay the breeder for the pup to be run on,shown by the breeder overseas, then be imported to australia. yes passed hip scores, show career cut short when accidental mating occured, the breeder of the dog in question then sold all the resulting pups and pocketed the money nothing was paid to the actual owner. I am talking over 10,000 dollars made from the "accidental' litter. Finally decided maybe a better idea to give up on leaving her with her breeder so has it shipped to Australia without the showing part of the contract finished, mind u this dog was winning best in breeds before the accident so she did expect to be getting a nice sound dog? One look at her on arrival and has entropian in both eyes, straight to the vet, desexed, eyes fixed and pet homed, Surely this poor person should have had some recourse instead of losses by the thousands??? Well last count tens of thousands.

hypathetical question. but i have seen a few instances and always wondered, why the breeder of a faulty pup is held automatically responsible but no mention of the breeder or breeders of the parents. for example a friend bought two dogs from the same breeder, lovely looking dogs, bred from them, over half the litter developed HD and friend besieged with angry puppy buyers. had bought them as adult, already bred from, suspect the seller had already had the same result. ended the friends dabble into the breeding scene, but always wondered, can the breeders of fault producing dogs also be appraoched for replacement or refund when dogs sold as breeding quality turn out to be genetic disasters? where do others think the buck should stop?

I suspect you may be right, but not privy to all that went on is a bit limiting. Any attempts at guessing I doubt the chances of being correct

Would be nice if it does do the ugly duckling thing too like so many and ends up with a title. Only time will tell. Only time will answer that question.

Very astute. But its pretty cruel on the victum, hearing such upsetting things said about their pet, well it seems so to me, maybe I'm too soft.

LOL u dont know the bitch scene yet do you?

I think you have it pretty summed up there. The newbie now has another so will not be pupless The returning puppy already might have a pet home maybe arranged on the horizon, heres hoping.

No, the breeder would like the pup back regardless. Since the pup has been assessed already by so many it does seem pointless for the beeder to give any other option. Dammed as heartless if didnt replace the first one and dammed anyway if dont take the replacement back regardless of how it turns out as an adult. The reasoning seems pretty clear to me.

So by newbie, you meant "new to the breed" not "new to showing"? You asked how unlucky you could be, I think many of us have had similar disappointments. As others have mentioned, one way to save heartache is to be clear upfront that potential is just potential until it is realised, and that realisation of potential depends on the handler/owner as much as the breeder. Not a magic preventive cure for drama, as some will hear only what they want to hear, but still.. Yes, so easy to get it wrong meaning wise, maybe there was an equal misunderstanding going on between buyer and breeder as well. who knows. In this litigation age, its mabe getting to the stage we all need to do law as part of the school curiculaum perhaps?

The now unhappy soon to be ex owner at the time only wanted one to show and socalise and understood puppys can change and teeth go out even if "apparently" perfect at the time they get it, has shown before but in a different breed n ring. But expectations change no matter what is said at the time. I used to think that people who refused to sell a puppy on main register were the reason numbers at shows were dropping, keeping it a closed shop for themselves. But this has been interesting, puts a different light on why so many breeders refuse to sell on main register, puts a differnent slant on why. used to main register the ones that looked like they would make the grade and limit the ones with any faults, as another suggested to me, limit everything and refuse main transfer until its adult and proven to have matured ok. End of puppy classes for em though if everyone takes the advice Ive been given. LOL still can have puppy classes come to think of it, just restricted to the breeders who are prepared to register n show their own. Wonder if this may be the future if enough people listen to the advice Ive received. I know this puppy's breeder has made the decision to follow the advice.

Well news this morning is he is going back to his breeder. This is a pretty sad story, this pup was a replacement for his brother originally purchased, became sick 48 hours after treatment supplied by the new owners vet, apparently a flea spot on no idea of the brand but according to the packet treats up to 10 kg. sold for and put on a 500 g pup? but vets assert could not possibly have made said pup ill. Either way it stopped eating and immune system crashed. After mega vet bills and still not eating, was given the option of signing the pup over to the vets to keep if they could save it. Was saved after I believe over two months of intensive care and survived, as you can imagine his owner was devastated and the pup being returned was given to the owner as a replacement. How unlucky could the buyer be?

I am only finding out bits at a time but seems what has been said about the breeder and the pup is extremely derogatory. I really dont want to say much. but not a nice way to talk to a newbile about their darling pup. I know perfectly well how much puppies can change, but when a whole gaggle do a pack attack at a public show its pretty distressing for the owner of the pup. So one voice saying hey some do this and go through some alarming changes, is pretty lost in the din. hence my post. just didnt know how to word it. Pretty sensative area is it not? To my eye I have seen dogs with more serious (well to me) things becoming champions n best of breeds once they matured. But thats only words right now, as well others dont go back to their promise either. very hard to know what to say. Maybe this happend years ago and I didnt notice, but making a newbie feel desolated doesnt seem a very nice way to introduce one to the show world

Ive a friend recently bought a puppy to show, it was assessed before purchase by not only its breeder as promising to be show quality. my friend also had it looked at by a number of judges as well. She was told it should do quite well, looked a very nice pup, correct bite for its breed etc. Now its 6 months old has been told its going off type, the teeth are going out and has been dudded by the breeder and to get her money back? How can so many people have been so wrong when she was thinking of getting it in the first place. Didnt just ask the breeders opinion before taking the pup. How often does this happen. My friend is devestated as she loves the puppy dearly but she wanted to be able to show and naturally win Is or isnt the sale of a puppy on main register a guarantee the puppy will mature to be show quality, and if not she can return it and get a refund? My friend is just devestated to be told the breeder must have known the puppy was not up to the standard she thought she was getting. Is there a cut off date that a refund can be to be asked for by, or is it once it is known the puppy is not turning out as it should be? This is such a sad time for my friend who was so excited to begin showing. Does this sort of thing happen very often