espinay2

Well done! Go show 'em how its done ;)

You will need to look at both internaland external issues to determine what the cause is. Note that it is bettertotreatthe cause rather thanthe symptoms. Some possible things to consider:

Look at the whole diet. It can be more than just essential fatty acid levels (you should know my views on diet by now ), but that is a start. Eggs and fish are good. Fish oil capsules provide a 'better' source if you are looking for 'medicinal' doses rather than simply maintenance.

Where is the dog kept? If the dog is an inside dog, what is the heating like? We all know that in winter our skin tends to dry out in environments that are heated if insufficient moisture is added back to the atmosphere. Leaving sources of water around to be evaporated into the air or using a humidifier can help even out the dryness in the atmosphere again. Good for us as well as the dog. You could use a moisturiser on the dog such as sorbolene (you can even use this to wash in in place of shampoo) but that will only be a stop gap if the air is dry.

When you wash, how are you rinsing? Rinsing is one of the most important parts of the washing process. Shampoo etc left inthe coat can cause dandruff. Rinse rinse rins and then when you think you have rinsed enough, rinse some more. Using a mild shampoo (such as aloveen or the sorbolene I suggested above) as some have suggested can help. The suggestion to rinse with a vinegar rinse is good too as vinegar will neutralise any remaining shampoo you have missed. Personally, I would not head for stronger chemical preparations at this point.

Yes, it can vary depending on the dog. I know a Dalmatian that stole two chocolate biscuits and was incredibly sick. they almost lost her (luckily she recovered, but it was touch and go for a while!). I know other dogs that have stolen whole blocks and been fine. Personally I dont consider the risk of finding out if one of my dogs is one of the sensitive ones small enough a risk to give it to them. Besides, I like it too much to share .

Feeding whole animals (or even parts such as the Giraffe) in zoos can be a tricky issue, not necessarily because the meat is 'not safe' but because of the public and PR factor.

Truth is, most members of the public do not take well to the sight of a Lion chowing down on a piece of giraffe neck or leg, not matter how natural it is (shocked me that they didn't when I first worked in Zoos here - the one I worked at chose to feed meat and bone, but would not feed large ungulates whole or with the skin on because of the negative reations they had from the public when they did it. the only thing they fed whole were rabbits and mice which they raised and killed themselves).

There is also the consideration that the giraffe may have been medicated and would still have that medication in its system. That is something you dont want to be feeding.

More bloat info here: http://www.vet.purdue.edu/epi/bloat.htm

Pudue is pretty much the leader when it comes to research on bloat/GDV

Lew has an article on feeding 'half and half' that may provide you with some ideas:

http://b-naturals.com/Jan2005.php

It doesnt really matter how often you feed - it is what suits you and your dog. you can feed once, twice, three times or whatever if that is what works best for the health of your dog and your schedule.

I personally feed once a day in the evening with a treat in the mornings. Just the way I do it. Doesnt mean it is right for every dog or person, but it works well for us.

I have big dogs so feed bigger pieces. What I feed my cats would probably be suitable for your dogs: chicken necks and wings, turkey necks, rabbit pieces, lamb flaps, lamb necks and kangaroo tails (The cats cant really eat the bone on the last two but they have good fun and exercise ripping and tearing off the meat. I have a pic at home of one of my cats as an eight week old kitten after she had stolen a roo tail off one of the dogs and was tucking into it guarding it with all her might :p )

Well, those same wild rabbits are shot, dressed and sold at the butchers (for a fortune!). But, you should check them before feeding them whole (as sidoney has mentioned).

In the US we used to regularly collect roadkill deer for the wolves (people used to ring and tell the facility about fresh kills - most often the police). Most places there needed a special permit to collect roadkill.

What size is your dog?

The biggest outbreaks of food poisoning have been the result of cooked foods (or rather incorrectly cooked and processed foods). The jack in the box (fast food hamburger chain) scandal in the US is one. Child deaths most recently in Australia I am aware of from food poisoning have been from eating salami and take away pizza. Frankly I am much more worried about processed foods and incorrect food handling than I am about feeding raw meat to dogs (particularly as the only case of food poisoning I have had in the last 10 years has been the result of takeaway chinese food!)

The JAVMA article (the original, which many raw feeders wil have seen - not the abstract you posted) has been around a while. I just love the bacteria phobia of some of the US based scientists. Note from the article that some commercial foods also contained bacteria, it is not restricted to raw meat.

Remember that the dogs digestive system is infinately more capable of dealing with bacteria than we are. The dog is designed to be a scavenger of rotting meat as well as a hunter (see previous threads where I described the dogs digestive system or go to http://b-naturals.com/Spr1999.php). Naturally we humans need to take care when handling raw meat, whether it be for our pets consumption or our own. Personally though I love sushi, sashimi and steak tartare and eat them quite regularly.

Many raw fed dogs are certified therapy dogs who have been required to be tested for bacteria. All that I am aware of have passed with flying colours (certainly, dogs who eat bones tend to have healthy mouths free of periodontal disease and its associated bacteria).

I find it funny personally that there is such a phobia about raw meat when commercial food is such a new thing, particularly here in Australia where commercial foods really only got a hold in the 1970's. If raw meat were so dangerous, how on earth did dogs survive as a species? People may find these articles which give some historical examples of popular dog diets interesting (Lew does some great research and makes it available fully referenced and in an easy to read form, so I am not ashamed to refer to her articles rather than write things out myself):

http://b-naturals.com/Mar2005.php

http://b-naturals.com/Apr2005.php

http://b-naturals.com/Jun2005.php

http://b-naturals.com/Aug2005.php

I dont. My vet knows. I have done the reseach and am happy with that decision for my dogs.

Been there, done that, and have reseached and argued the point for too long to go into any great detail now. I will make some minor 'food for thought' comments however, without going into great detail:

Myth 1 - Claimed similarities between modern wild canids and the domestic dog, and thus modern domestic dogs therefore have identical genetic development and nutritional needs as wild canids.

If wolves and dogs should not be fed the same thing because they are genetically different, then what would you feed a wolf hybrid? Does the same hold true for dogs and 'wild' dogs such as the Dingo? If so, should we be feeding golden retrievers and Australian Cattle Dogs differently as the Dingo was used in the development of the ACD? Where do you draw the line?

Myth 2 - Claims of increased disease levels and shortened life spans in pet dogs versus claimed lack of disease and increased life spans in wild ancestral canids like wolves and coyotes.

The main increases are in the rates of diseases such as cancer, diabetes, thyroid related conditions, obesity and the like. These are definitely worrying researchers who are finding many parallels with humans. I wish I could find my research reference to the studies that are occurring in this respect and the correspondence I had with one of the researchers, but they dont seem to be on my work computer.

Myth 3 - Claimed reduced levels of parasites.

It should be remembered that the natural state is not the complete absence of parasites. For such a 'vaccum' to exist is in fact an unnatural state and requires chemicals to be maintained. The natural state is a state of sybiosis where the parasites exists to a level that does not cause detriment to the host. 'Overgrowth' causing detriment is a sign that there is a breakdown in the system somewhere and is of no use to either the host or the parasite. Personally, I have wormed my dogs only once in 5 years. I probably didnt even need it then, but old habits die hard. Fecal samples show there is no need to worm. A far cry from the every 3 months needed before I fed a raw diet. If a person wants however, it is still perfectly acceptable to feed a raw diet and still use a chemical wormer just to be 'safe'.

Myth 4 - Claimed reduced levels of food intolerance, adverse reactions to foods, and or "allergies".

A raw diet is very useful for a person attempting to isolate allergies simply because it provides a much higher degree of flexibility to exclude and/or include certain food items. With a commercial food you are stuck with feeding a group of foods and switching between groups. You cannot exclude individual items. Having the flexibility can allow specific intolerances or allergies to be identified quickly and individually isolated.

As for grains, even that tome the Nutrient Requirements of Dogs which is published specifically for kibble companies to formulate their diets states that the only time carbohydrates are required is when the dog is a lactating bitch. IT also states unequivocally that they are included for 'economical' reasons, not for reasons of requirement. Check out what the very well respected Merck Vet manual has to say on the subject - go to www.merckvetmanual.com

Myth 5 - Claims that feeding "raw meaty bones" are good for domestic dogs.

The old 'hair wrapped around the bones' scenario. Hair does NOT have some magical property which makes it wrap around bones. A wolf will NOT always eat hair and hide along with bones when eating from a carcass. The hair is there simply because it is undigestable. In fact one hypothesis is that the presence of hair can at times PREVENT the proper digestion of bone - which is precisely why the bone comes out wrapped in hair in the first place rather than the bone turning up as crumbly white poo more common when carcasses with no hide are eaten. This BTW comes to some degree from personal experience working in the US with wolves fed a natural diet including whole carcass and part carcass as well as the experience of others I know in the field.

As for claims that no harm will come. Even kibble companies cant claim that. Dogs can and have choked on kibble. NO ONE I know has ever claimed that problems are not possible. All that has EVER been stated from the major players in this area is that from PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, problems are minimal and rarely occur. Certainly my OWN personal experience (which involves managing and owning some very high volume international email lists on the subject) is that problems related to the diet do not occur often. My OWN dogs have never had a problem occur as a result of a bone. Nothing in life is trouble or risk free, and if anyone is concerned about risks, there are ways and menas of minimising them.

Myth 6 - Claimed increased value of uncooked foods versus cooked foods and subsequent loss of trace micro-nutrients by the cooking process.

It simply amazes me that people can understand the need for humans to eat less processed foods and more fresh foods, and yet expect dogs to rely on processed foods. Studies in humans (on the equivalent of 'complete and balanced' commercial dog food - Ration Packs used by the Defence Forces) have shown that the maximum amount of time a human can go eating only processed 'complete and balanced' meals without the inclusion of fresh foods before immunity and performance begins to suffer is 21 days. The science BTW that goes into the development of ration packs can very much rival if not outstrip that for commercial pet food development.

Certainly there ARE nutrients that are killed by the cooking process. Taurine is one of them. The lack of taurine in dog foods has been linked to health problems such as dilated cardiomyopathy Another nutrient is L-Cartinine.

Different people have different opinions. All I can say is after over 10 years of feeding NO commercial dog food and a diet based on raw meaty bones/bones and raw food I will never go back. I know many breeders who have done the same for even longer than me.

I will see your reputable breeder and raise you another ten (and still leave myself a pile for future betting )

I am not a big fan of marrow bones for dogs in the way a lot of people feed them. In the wild these leg bones are the ones most often left. they are very hard weight bearing bones. They can break teeth. Even worse is when they are cut with a saw. This exposes hard bone edges and because of the way they are cut, dogs are encouraged to chew on these edges. IMO the best way to give marrow bones if you want to give them is whole, not cut. This way the dog is encouraged to knaw on the softer ends and not the hard middle. There is no need at all IMO to cut the bone to expose the marrow. Marrow is just fat when you get down to it.

It depends on the bones. And what percentage of bone (as opposed to the meat that is attached to the bone) is consumed in the diet.

Usually I would say a diet should be no more than about 10% consumed bone overall.

again, that is the amount of BONE consumed, and does not include the meat that is attached to it.

You will tell if there is a high content of bone in the diet. Poos will be white, hard, dry and crumbly coming out (this is different from turning white later BTW). These are ok from time to time, but I wouldn't want to be seeing them all the time. If you are seeing them all the time, I would be increasing the percentage of meat in the diet.

Remember that if you want you can feed all or most of your meat 'on the bone' in the form of Raw MEATY Bones. So theoretically, the dog would be getting 'lots of bones' possibly every day. However, it is the amount of bone consumed in relation to the amount of meat in the diet overall that is relevant, not the number of 'bones' he gets.

My favourite way to teach 'front' and 'come' is to backchain the exercise.

Think of it this way. The exercise 'recall' is not to run towards you, but to move as quick as possible to sit in front of you. No matter where the dog is, it has to move from point A (where it is) to point B (sitting in front of you). The running is just the getting there, not the exercise itself. The aim of the exercise is the sitting in front. (A bit like the aim of 'heel' is not the moving, but the actual position beside the handlers leg, whether moving or stationary)

So, start from the beginning and teach your dog to sit straight in front of you. You start where you plan to end (this is what 'backchaining' is).

Once you have taught the dog to sit striaght in front of you, THEN you can start introducing greater distance, starting very close and building up slowly as each new distance is consolidated. You can also introduce different angles, and I recommend this right from the beginning as the dog needs to come from different directions to sit straight in front and needs to make an effort to be straight. This helps reinforce the sitting straight. Theoretically, they should be able to come from any point close or far within a 360 degree radius from you and sit straight in front.

Sometimes to 'get' this I have had people stop using the command 'come' for the whole recall exercise and switch to using 'front'. It tends to put in focus for the handler what the point of the exercise is and stops confusion and falling into old habits of letting the dog 'wander' when they get close to the handler on the recall.

HTH

A lot dont. Some do. Some only part dry. Drying takes a lot of time and effort to do right, especially on a coated dog or on a dog you are going to clip. Time is money. On a large coated dog, to get them completely dry, can sometimes take an hour or more just for the drying itself.

Edited to add: a large majority of mobile dog washes do not last more than a season or two in business. They are hard to sustain at the low prices they often charge for grooming.

Some other websites for groomers where they can get some good advice on the business side of things as well as the grooming itself:

www.groomersnetwork.com

www.groomers.com

www.petgroomer.com

Remember, low prices can often mean the groomer needs to increase volume to make ends meet. Higher volume generally means less time spent on each dog. Less time often means corners are cut.

Some groomers seek to be a high volume/low price business (many mobile franchises operate this way - I know as that is how I started in the business). Others go for full service with attention to detail and price accordingly (my own preference now). The customer needs to decide for themselves what they want to pay for and seek out the groomer who provides that, whatever that may be.

Jack Russell

Border Terrier

Greyhound

Whippet

Rhodesian Ridgeback

Pyrenean Mountain Dog

Vizsla

Keeshond

Newfoundland

Leonberger

Kerry Blue

Soft Coated Wheaten

Lagotto

Papillon

and on and on and on

Depending on the family there are so many choices. The perfect dog for one family can be the worst for another and vice versa.

As others have said too, training can also play a large part.

there is no such thing as a generic 'good dog for a family'

Well, for some goldens, $60 may be reasonable. Depends on what they do too. For a full groom, using quality products and a thorough dry and brushout, trim and so-on following the bath, that price could definitely be in the ballpark. You also have to remember that grooming is a VERY underpaid profession and many are just now beginning to charge what they really should. Usually those that dont go out of business before too long.

Groomers here who havent already may want to join the list Groom-TNT-Australia (www.yahoogroups.com) and in particular look at the earlier threads on pricing.

If you want want a quick wash and a wet dog you wont get it here.

Ditto!

Actually neither is better. Dogs do not require carboydratesand in fact studieshave shown that froman energy point of view, dogs perform better on a no/low carb diet. Even that tome'The Nutrient Requirements of Dogs' which sets out information to assist commercial food manufacturers formulate their products staates that carbohydrates/grains are added because they are 'economical', and not because they are best.

How much more meat on the bone should they get? I'd been using Billinghurts' comment that as a bottom line pups can do well on chicken wings and random bits & pieces as a sort of safety net

If you have a read, you will see even Billinghurst really recommends more than just the meat on wings etc, as he also advocates the 'meat meal' - both in his first book, and in the two subsequent books in the form of 'patties'.

Even a prey animal, which often will have a little less meat on in that a commercially raised animal, will have more meat on it than a chicken frame or wing. Look at the wild rabbits next time you are in the butcher for example, or imagine how much meat a dog may get when eating his share of a kangaroo or an elk. Yes, some days they will get less, and feeding wings or carcasses on their own for a few days is no problem. I do that too. But IMO also feeding meatier meals whether on the bone (eg big meaty lamb necks or pork hocks or half a whole chicken or meaty chicken pieces) or off the bone (in the form of muscle meat chunks or mince) provides a better balance over time.

do those of you who use it have a cheaper way of buying codliver and flaxseed oil and brewer's yeast and rescue remedy than from the health food shop?

I dont use brewers yeast which some dogs can be allergic to. Vit B can be provided through organ meats etc. I dont use cod liver oil. Instead of flaxseed oil I use fish oil capsules which I buy from my local chemist (Gunghalin for Canberra folks) who sell 2 large bottles for under $30. I find there is less wastage with the capsules. If you want to stick to flax seed oil though, you can order directly from Stoney Creek Oils which may be more economical. Do a google search and you should find their website. As for rescue remedy, you can buy a small bottle of the concentrate and make it up yourself using spring water and alcohol. You have to spend a bit more in the beginning, but it may cost you less in the end if you use it frequently.

Poodlefan, I have been trying to find some Plum Silky as I have heard god things about it, so if you find some over here, let me know!

For smell I love the Fidos Herbal Rinse.