espinay2

I know many hospitals have tried and been impressed by Medi Honey, particularly for hard to treat and resistant infections such as Golden Staph. I would say give it a go.

Now all I have to do is work out how to get the lad to eat bones...

I think you will need to check this. In the article, although it says not to starve calcium, it does say that calcium citrate should be fed as the only form of calcium for this particular condition. If you need clarifying, perhaps you could contact the author and see what she says?

If you can provide bones, you may want to start by mixing chicken pet mince in with other muscle meat. This should be easy to get from a lot of chicken shops/pet food places. Leonards even sells it here although you need to ask as they often dont advertise they have it.

I have met a pitbull cross who had actually learned to raise her lip to smile back at people

Lots of dogs do this. Dalmatians are renowned for it. They really show off their teeth and it can sometimes be taken for a sign of agression by those who are not dog savvy.

One of my Pyrs smiles too but it is more a crinkling around the eyes and a little lip lifting rather than the full blown show us your pearlies that my Dally does.

Chezzyr - re read my post a few pages back. The most important rules to remember when teaching stays are as follows IMO:

1. Stays need to be relaxed and stress free. If you get frustrated, stop the lesson.

2. Build a strong foundation and progress slowly. It will pay off later on.

3. Start by increasing time with you right beside the dog, not in front. In front comes later (my progression is beside, 1/2 a step to the side, 1/2 step diagonally forward, directly in front, 1/2 step back in front, 1 step back in front, length of lead in front, lead on the ground at length of lead, and then moving progressively backwards. I will also be doing some with me in different positions beside and behind the dog after I have established a stay at the length of the lead) .

4. Whenever you increase the distance, decrease the time (and then build up time at the new distance)

5. If your dog is getting up from the stay all the time, you are going too fast. Go back a few steps and work on that foundation a bit more

6. Always praise/reward the dog in the stay position, not after you have asked it to get up.

To stop the cat getting on the fence, how about putting up a lattice fence extension?

Feeding a diet totally of muscle meat without any source of calcium - such as bones - is the problem. Feeding the occasional meal of just meat however, is no problem. You need to look at the balance over time, not just in a single meal. My dogs will occasionally get a meal with no bones - usually once a week or so and occasionally twice. They do however, eat meaty bones on other days. (It is generally felt BTW, that chicken carcasses, necks and wings do not provide enough muscle meat on their own. It would be good therefore to provide additional muscle meat by providing other types of bones which have more meat on them and/or providing additional muscle meat off the bone eg meat chunks or mince)

In regards to Oxylate stones/crystals, Lew has a good article on this on her B-Naturals webpage: http://b-naturals.com/Dec2004.php

One of the most important things with stays is to build a strong foundation. Do not go too fast to build up, time or distance. I cant emphasise that enough. Do not go too fast.

It is also important that the dog be relaxed in the stay. A dog that is relaxed will be less likely to move. The stay should be taught with the least stress possible, and if you are getting frustrated or stressed yourself, end the training session then and there. Do NOT try for 'just one more' before you quit.

If your dog is constantly breaking the stay, go back a step or two by decreasing time and/or distance.

I always start with the dog beside me and I stay beside the dog. I build up time with me right beside the dog before I even think of taking a small step away. A stay in the beginning may be only one or two seconds with you beside the dog. Next may be the time it takes for you to stand up straight and then bend down again. Always remember that when you first increase distance, you also decrease time and then work to build it up again at that distance.

Rewards/reinforcement should be given to the dog IN the stay position, not after you have given the release. If you reward afterwards, you are rewarding the getting up and not the stay. NEVER call the dog to you to reward him for a stay. Always go back to the dog and reward in the stay position before giving the release and allowing the dog to move.

It is preferable not to make eye contact if you can, although go with what your dog is most comfortable with. You can still watch your dog without making eye contact. Look at a spot near his tail.

dont stand rigid and stiff/not move while your dog is in a stay. Get your dog used to you moving. If you dont, a sneeze or unconcious swat at a fly during a stay could make your dog move. Stay relaxed. Later on you can get your dog used to you moving around, behind and even stepping over him in the stay, but make sure you build up the basics first and DONT GO TOO FAST.

If your dog moves in the stay, simply go and put him back in position. Be calm and dont growl or act mad as you go back to him. Go back a few steps and work on that foundation if it happens more than once. Reward/reinforce staying in the stay.

As I have said, building a strong, relaxed, stress free foundation in the stay is all important. Build a strong foundation and things wont fall over later

A couple of things to investigate if you havent done so already - I would get a full panel thyroid test done to ensure levels are normal. I would also investigate the skin condition Sebaceous Adenitis to see whether it fits your dogs symptoms at all.

Are you positive nothing has changed? Rememeber even neighbours spraying poisons on plants which are carried by the wind into your yard can sometimes have an effect. You have used no lawn treatments at any stage? What about what you wash his bedding in? Or clean the carpet with if he comes inside?

Similar thing with fish oil supps, too much vitamin A and D is not good news.

Cod liver oil contains A and D and for this reason it need to be given with care and not given to bitches in the early stages of pregnancy. Omega 3 fish oil capsules (It is a fish body oil, most commonly Salmon Oil) however, do not generally contain A and D.

Ah , now I see why the other thread was bumped! (duh )

The issue of total lack of pigmentation is a bit different to a winter/snow/dudley nose, but I agree, for a winter nose, dont use plastic bowls (complete lack of pigment I dont feel will be affected by this). I dont think anyone has come up with anything totally concrete to stop it, although some say feeding kelp helps or something like livamol.

Espinay - they'll eat anything I give them - greedy little pigs. I just worry capsules will pass through too quickly. You have to see it to believe it!

Stick one of them in a little warm water and see how long it takes to 'melt'. Then imagine the same thing in the very acidic environment of the dogs stomach. I dont think you have anything to worry about

Omega 3 capsules Espinay? - are you suggesting that might be better for my furkid than what Jed suggested? I break them open before giving them to him, right? I'm all ears, people.

I personally prefer them as a way to provide an omega oil (essential fatty acid) supplement. As for ways to give them, it depends on your dog. Mine think they are treats and come running when they hear the bottle rattle. They all sit in front of me in anticipation and crunch on them as I pass them out . If I dont give them out this way, I throw them in on top of their dinner and again they get eaten up quick smart. If your dog wont eat them that way, you can pierce them and squeeze them in the food. I find it not as messy to do it the other way.

As for offal - what's the story with hydatid? I'm getting confused on this issue.

Hydatids aren't that hard to spot if you know what you are looking for. Meat is inpected for it as part of processing for human consumption. Freezing also kills them. I would not feed organ meats from uninspected sources if it is a concern to you. And if you are still worried, but want to feed organ meats, you can always worm regularly for them.

I feed whole raw sardines. That seems to be the favourite of my lot when it comes to raw fish. I buy it in bags from the fish place at the markets. The Cats love them too .

Otherwise they get canned sardines, mackeral, tuna or salmon. Usually they get fish of some sort about every 10 days.

But heart doesn't count as offal, right, since it's muscle tissue?

Heart is an odd one. you can have some really good debates about heart . Basically, from my point of view it is both an oran meat and a muscle - it is a 'special' muscle meat though as it is 'richer'. It is exceptional for cats for example as it is a high source of taurine. Think of them as an organ and muscle meat meal in one if you will :rolleyes: . But not a replacement for other organ meats nor necessarily a replacement for other muscle meats. Definitely feed them, but not something to go overboard on IMO - remember every prey animal only has one .

Raz, to be honest I would be more likely to suggest fish oil capsules as an omega supplement rather than any other. You can get these from most chemists and health food stores. Foods such as chicken (esp the chicken fat) are high in omega 6, so if you are feeding that, they will get plenty. Omega 3 however, is the one you want to be looking at - it is the one that assists in 'calming' the skin being 'less' inflammatory (I am splitting hairs here by not calling it 'anti' inflammatory, mainly because a good friend of mine in the field has admonished me in the past for this being 'technically incorrect' though probably not incorrect from a laymans understanding ).

The thing you have to remember with essential fatty acids is that they are not that stable. Oils need to be protected from light, air and heat. If the oil is not in capsule form (which is protected from air in particular) it can go 'off' and lose effectiveness very quickly (I will still refrigerate capsules too and make sure it is stored in a cool place before opening). This is one reason I am wary of any omega oil supplement which is not sold refrigerated.

In relation to feeding organ meats, picture the prey animal (think of a rabbit for example) and compare the amount of meat to organ meat. This is the ratio you want to achieve. As someone has said, about 10% in total. I find a lot of people find it easier if they get a picture in their mind.

  I'm not so sure they use motivational based training methods either, just purely food rewards.

Not sure what you are trying to refer to here. The use of food IS a form of motivational training.

The Westons club and their books 'Gentle Modern Method' and others on dealing with problems etc are very interesting and very easy to read and follow. I remember when they first came out. They were a big leap ahead at the time in regards to clubs teaching purely along motivational lines and seeking a different outcome and environment to the one many clubs offered. They have managed to keep to certain ideals in their training methods which I think is great (overuse and reliance on the lead in training can be difficult to instil in new and uncoordinated handlers and to overcome if you dont have the facility to remove it as a crutch. There are ways, but not nearly as effective as removing it altogether), although I will agree they are not a club that is likely to be good for every dog. But that is ok, as there are other clubs out there as well that may be better suited to their needs (just as there are different schools whose methods may suit different students).

I too would suggest going back to raw. He did well on it before, didnt he?

Cant advise one way or another on the swimming, but rinsing with vinegar will help control fungal and bacterial issues on the skin. Mix up a jug of water and vinegar and pour over. For hotspots you can also apply a mix regularly using a spray bottle and/or swab with cotton wool

I do love the hydrobath as you can push a lot of the dead hair out a lot easier than just in the bath. If you have a hand held shower nozzle that can give a reasonable amount of pressure however, then the bath should be fine.

What would be really useful however, would be a high velocity blow dryer. This will get rid of much more of the dead hair and can really make a difference to a coat. It is the major piece of grooming equipment that is well worth looking into before anything else IMO. Even if you are bathing with a bucket I would get a dryer before a hydrobath.

Are there any do it yourself bath places near you? This may be worthwhile as you get to use their equipment and it is cheaper than getting someone else to do it for you. Just check your yellow pages and start calling around.

Raz, why not try him on the raw diet too? I have had/seen plenty of dogs whose skin condition became a lot better and even non existent with a change to a raw diet. In fact is is the reason many people change their dogs to a raw diet. If you need help to modify the diet for him (which is easy to do) then I am sure you can get lots of assistance here.

until I had seen other dogs in this condition eating totally raw meat without problem I would probably play it safe and not feed it at all 

A VERY quick search pulled up this case. I am sure I could find more if I had a little more time

http://www.frenchbulldogrescue.org/id823.htm

"She also had a surgical procedure done to remove 18 inchs of her small intestine. Prior to coming into rescue she was on a special diet and medication. Her current foster home has treated her homeopathically, and this little girl is thriving on the same raw food diet shared by the resident dogs. She is now a happy, relaxed, healthy dog requiring no special medications or care. "

A thought Jeanne, the reason dogs rarely come down with food related infections such as salmonella poisoning, is because their digestive tract IS short. Bugs are not in there long enough to cause trouble.

Yes, as a carnivore, a dogs intestines is much shorter than a humans or other animal designed to eat vegetable matter.

Lets look at the dogs digestive system

The jaws of a dog move in an up and down motion with a crushing vice-like action. Unlike an animal that is designed to eat grains and vegetable matter they can not move their jaws from side to side in a masticating/grinding motion. Their teeth, including their molars, are sharp and pointy designed to crush and rip apart, not flat like the grinding teeth of plant eaters. They have prominant canine teeth in the front designed to, pierce, hold and rip.

Unlike humans, whose saliva contains enzymes which start the digestion process, the saliva of a dog is merely for lubrication. Teeth, jaws and saliva act to crush and tear large pieces so they can slide down to the stomach, often in large pieces.

The stomach has a high degree of acidity - much higer than a humans - this is where a majority of the digestion process to break up the food takes place.

The intestines are short and are smooth, unlike a humans which is ribbed. Food can transit fairly quickly through the intestines, particularly when it is not slowed down by the presence of grains which do tend to slow the progress of food through the digestion process.

The high acidity and quick digestion time all contribute to a decreased chance of problems with bacteria. Remember, dogs (and wolves, and dingos, in fact all animals within the classification Canis Lupus) are designed to be not only hunters, but scavengers. Their system from start to finish is designed to take on large pieces of meat and bone often with a higher bacterial load than can be consumed by humans.

As for a dog that has a reduced length of intestines, this in itself i do not personally feel is of major concern, but rather the fact that her immune and digestive system have been compromised and will need supporting while it regains 'strength'. There is no reason that I can personally see why a dog such as this could not eat a raw diet, though certainly at first I would be sticking to foods which were in smaller pieces and more easily digested (probably ground at first, and later building to softer whole bones such as chicken necks and wings and then larger later as the dogs system becomes accustomed to them) and making sure that the dogs system was supported with probiotics and other antioxidants. Of course I have no knowledge of this actual dog and am only going on the information provided in this thread. It is only my personal feeling of what I may do if the dog were in my care.

Now lets all play nice shall we? After feeding a raw diet for over 10 years and running several major rawfeeding email lists, may I say that if nothing else I have learnt that you can catch more flies with honey and out and out confrontation tends to lead of the breakdown in discussion just like we have seen here. I do strongly believe in feeding a raw diet, have seen the benefits from doing so, and love teaching people about it, but as the saying goes, you can lead a horse to water, but you cant make it drink (and beating them over the head with the bucket wont make them want it more). The horses will drink when they are good and ready, as long as we make sure the nice fresh clean inviting water is available to them .

Tracy

www.yahoogroups.com/groups/rawbreeder

Average age unfortunately isn't much use when comparing domestic dogs to wild canids as the biggest killer of wolves when you look at mortality statistics is humans - either via a bullet, trap or being hit by a vehicle. Other deaths are from 'natural causes' including broken bones, being staked on stick while hunting and being injured by their prey and injured in a fight. If a wolf in wild survives all this they can live to a reasonably good age. Here are some mortality statistics from Yellowstone you may find interesting:

http://www.forwolves.org/ralph/deadwolf.htm

It is important to remember too, that there is a difference between living a a long life and living a healthy life up to the point of death. Many sdogs, for instance, may live a long life, but many of those years may not necessarily be healthy ones (and certainly not ones that would allow them to function effectively in the wild)

But dogs are not wolves.

You could also use the Dingo as an example, or Feral dogs. Basically, when you get down to it, they all eat the same. There are many, many studies on all manner of Canis Lupus (any of the Wolves, the Dingo, domestic and feral dogs) which show just how similar they are in relation to diet.

The main variation is the prey that is available from region to region and country to country. Wolves in Canada are eating slightly different prey to wolves in Romania or Wolves in different parts of the US, Dingos in subtropical areas are eating slightly different prey to ones in desert areas and feral dogs in the Snowy Mountains region are eating different prey to feral dogs in Botswana. As I said though, when you get down to it, their diets are very very similar.

I never said they don't eat vegetable matter of any kind - just that they only eat a very small proportion as part of their diet and usually not on purpose for reasons of sustenance, but as a consequence of other things they are eating (they are not, for example, going to remove the contents of the stomach of smaller prey such as rabbit as they generally eat them relatively whole wheras the stomach and intestines of large ungulates is generally shaken out before eating. they will still get some vegetable matter clinging to them, but the largest proportion is left on the ground (I know because I have nearly stepped on it more than once )

As for eating grass, most suggest it is a form of self medication. Sometimes it is used to assist with vomiting, for example, and sometimes it passes through to assist in 'cleanout'. I once saw a dog who was insistent and determined to eat grass later pass the grass as a clump along with a number of tapeworms. There is a book called 'Wild Health' that deals with the issue of self-medication among animals that you may find interesting.

Many dogs a groomer sees can be quite "challenging" to handle.

poodlefan is being very polite

We are talking about dogs here who commonly want to rip your face and arms off.

Not fun when you are actually trying to get your hands ON them and need to get your head close enough to them to see what you are doing!

It is legal for anyone to set themselves up as a groomer regardless of skill or experience (of course how long many of these remain in the industry is another thing - most customers soon recognise lack of skill) . That said, there is certainly a move among groomers to try and raise the standards of professionalism within the industry. Many in Australia have joined an organisasion called the Pet Industry Joint Advisory Council (PIJAC) which sets out guidelines in relation to things such as conduct and health issues. You may also want to join the email list (which I forgot to mention earlier) Groom-TNT-Australia which is at www.yahoogroups.com . It is a meeting place for Australian groomers - both new and experienced - to exchange information and share ideas with the aim of supporting each other and improving professionalism in the industry.