Amazetl

Such a sad story there. I would say that the smaller oodles get babied along with already having nervy genes as well as being more from toy dogs and more prone to separation anxiety. My biggest concern with them other than not knowing what they are going to be like behaviour or physical characteristic wise is their coat. People think that they have an easy coat because they don’t shed. But so many of them are matted underneath the cute fluff and I would imagine that could add to some behaviour issues too let alone being so painful. Non shedding does not mean non brushing or grooming. I think that most are breeding for money first and foremost. That they see there’s a market there if only you mix the poodle in with it. But there are actually some very passionate ‘breeders’ out there of oodles. They have their own ‘clubs’ and meet ups and all that stuff. The dogs can also have much of their genetics tested even to include the statistics of what the parent dog might be in regards to all kinds of diseases. Obviously it’s just a test and not tested by parentage papers and records. But there are some out there who are trying to think of the dog/puppies as well as the owners who want that dog. Of course they also enjoy the money. I think it’s still risky to get an oodle and also very sad because there are so many purebreds who are vulnerable or becoming so who would just be so great in their place. There are plenty of other dogs out there who are non shedding or very low shedding who don’t require as much grooming too. The oodles are popular and it’s not going to go away. No idea what is really going to happen with the dog world in the future. Also just to add that from my research purebred papered breeders will keep a puppy when they want a new breeding dog in their lines and if that puppy doesn’t measure up health wise, physical wise and I would hope also temperament wise they don’t breed from it. I highly doubt that oodle breeders who get the one dog and have probably spent much money on it themselves decide to go back to the start if that dog has behaviour issues or doesn’t look like a good breeding dog, so they breed from it anyway. Just food for thought there.

In puppy class there were several working breeds - Border Collies and Kelpies and they were in pet homes. A few of them were lunging and barking and snapping already at the other puppies and dragging their people around. (I have nothing against them but they just weren’t in suitable homes and probably poorly bred too). There were also many poodle crosses and only one of them was slightly just a couple times a bit snappy. The rest were all very well behaved and sweet. But I do worry about their coats when they get bigger. They already look difficult to manage. People see some pure breeds and all their energy and think an oodle will be easier because they are a mix. I think that’s part of the reason that oodles are so popular. People know someone with one who has had a good experience, the ‘breeders’ say good things about them, they are cute, many people have had negative experiences with neurotic poodles growing up or think they are too ‘proper’ or whatever. Some people think mixing the breeds will lessen the stronger behaviour characteristics of both dogs and make a nicer dog. And in a lot of peoples cases that has been true given that they are so popular (though I bet a well bred poodle and whatever the cross dog is would be great instead). I think a lot of people just want a cute pet dog and believe their coats will be easy. Also with poodle cross cavaliers especially, many people believe that cavaliers are unhealthy which there is a lot of media out there on that and they believe the poodle will offset that. Though I imagine many aren’t putting the thought into it - oodles are just what are readily available with no waiting lists or talking with breeders at length etc. I think they just make a good sell to a lot of people. I don’t know where it’s going to go and what’s going to happen in the bigger picture with all the vulnerable breeds and breeder laws and prices and how difficult it was to get a puppy for a while and now how there are so many out there. It seems rather unstable and makes me sad. I love dogs so much, though a lot of people probably really shouldn’t be getting one. Oh, edited to add that some people see the oodles and think where the puppies have come from have been bred for money. And then they look at the mastiff or staffy crosses and think they have been rescued. Even though both can happen.

Yeah probably more ‘some’ than a lot but I have noticed that many of the ones I’ve come across have had parents who were genetic tested with orivet which is very quick and easy to do these days. They ask for more when they do that or what I mean is they believe they have a better litter to sell. Interestingly though I didn’t know how you can test for coat type etc with poodles and some oodle parent poodles haven’t had that and they don’t end up with the desired oodle coat and you don’t know what that puppy coat is going to be like when they are older, not for sure. Many people wouldn’t even know what to look for with all the testing they’ve supposedly done. That’s why going pure can be so much better, or one of the reasons, you know what they are generally going to be like and exactly what they should be tested for before breeding. Temperament wise too, exercise levels, health things to watch out for etc. With a mixed breed you might get individual characteristics and uniqueness but you don’t know so much. When you get a purebred you will know for instance how to take care of the adult coat and what works best, for oodles you have no idea just how much care they may need but generally it’s a lot and they all differ slightly. I would bet the breeders aren’t there to help guide you as much as getting a pure, and a google search can’t help exact either. Many groomers have to end up shaving them right down because the people haven’t known how to take care of the coat. And then they get angry that their oodle doesn’t look like a teddy bear. I can see some of the appeal but you are safer with knowing what you’re getting and having that guidance too, and knowing that the breeders mostly care very much for the breed and not just doing it to make money. Just to add, when I started researching every dog breed listed on Dogz online I was amazed at how many different characteristics you can get and how many have what I think a lot of people are looking for with an oodle - not as much shedding. There are so many other dogs that would be great but my guess is that a lot don’t even know that breed exists. Also, I think some people believe that a mixed breed will lessen the intensity of both breeds. I’ve heard many people describe some dog breeds as yappy etc so wouldn’t get that one but mix a poodle with something else and somehow it’s all good. I think a lot of the oodle buyers really does just come down to them looking to see what’s available right now too and not wanting to talk at length with breeders or be on wait lists etc. For many it’s much easier to just look at the newspaper etc and see what’s there right now. I know recently someone who decided one day they wanted a puppy, hadn’t put much thought into it beforehand and then ended up buying a Border Collie straight away from a farm. The puppy is sweet but a true working dog that sits in a backyard all day. It’s so sad. But they wanted the idea of a dog and they wanted it right now. I know someone else who did the same with a Kelpie and unfortunately then rehomed him.

I think a lot of people want the ‘teddy bear’ look dog and many don’t know about all the breeds that don’t shed as much. Also these days a lot of the oodle breeders genetic test their dogs so people feel like they are getting a good healthy dog. I know a lot of people wonder why not just get a poodle. As most would know, many people just feel that poodles look too ‘funny’ even in their natural coat, people also shy away when they know that poodles need so much grooming and so often and believe that a mixed with poodle doesn’t need that care as much, which can be true or they can need even more. Some are under the belief that they don’t need to even brush their poor oodle. I have met many oodles through puppy school and they are very cute and mostly sweet pups. But their puppy coat is so different to their adult coat. Some still keep that cute teddy bear look but some have hair that is so hard to manage. Almost all the other puppies in our puppy class are oodles. There are the more common ‘cavoodles’, ‘spoodle’ and a ‘schnoodle’. Not sure on exacts of what they call them. Some of them are so super cute as puppies, I couldn’t believe it. Then I went home and googled some adult looking ones and my the schnauzer cross poodle looked so odd to me. There are also different crosses in our class mixed with pugs and jack russell’s etc. I know someone who has one mixed with a German Shepherd! I can see the appeal of some of them especially when you see them as cute little puppies that look like actual soft toys. And so many people know someone with them and that’s their main experience of dogs. Interestingly there’s no big dog oodles in our classes. It seems a lot of breeders are mixing anything with poodles to be more able to sell them. Oh and I don’t know the last time I’ve seen an actual poodle out and about in the pet shops and classes I’ve been to with my dogs. A lot of people don’t have a problem with mixed breed dogs or prefer them. It’s what a lot of people have grown up with. A lot believe that they are healthier and have their own unique characters. Some think purebreds are unhealthy and snobbish etc. Years ago when I decided to start looking for what breed I may want to get as my first time dog owner as an adult I first went to the trading post as that’s all I knew. I had no idea about Dogz online. I knew I wanted a big dog. I wasn’t a fan of the look of any of the large oodles so I never looked there. But some of the adds were of Border Collies cross Goldens. I thought they looked cute and interesting, looking sort of like a Golden but a different colour. But then because I love to research I read heaps of online forums and read about many people who had that particular cross and had bad experiences including a family who’s dog turned on one of the kids one day out of the blue. Then I started reading more about the individual breeds and learned how a Border Collie, badly bred, would not be for me. For that matter, even a well bred one. I stumbled upon breed clubs and health testing and Dogz online and then started figuring out what it was I wanted to do and that was get a puppy the proper way. Narrowed it down, talked to several breeders, got a feel for things and ended up with my well bred Lab who is the best thing in my life. Then later on my Goldens. I had no idea before all that and I’ve always been a dog person, just never part of the purebred world. I think most just don’t care or know even. A lot of peoples go to is the trading post and just browse what’s in your area.

That is a very good point. She has recently been to the vet for her shots and had a quick health check. Her teeth were good. But she does do an odd thing and has done so for years. When you are patting her if you pat a certain spot sort of on her side near her ear she will do a grimace. It’s like an uncontrollable facial expression. She does need her ears cleaned quite often and I’ve wondered if it has something to do with that. The vet previously didn’t seem concerned. I don’t think her eye sight has changed as she can catch things well but then perhaps she still can do that like a reflex or something. I will bring all this up at our appointment. She has gotten a bit overweight in the last couple years. She used to always be super athletic. I have wondered if she has some hormone thing. But she doesn’t have any other symptoms. Her coat is lovely. As for hips and such I haven’t noticed anything but she certainly doesn’t show if she’s in pain or discomfort. She acts very tough, has hardly ever whimpered in her life, although when her ears are starting to bother her she does paw them and moan or more like a groan. She is very good at getting them cleaned and I do it regularly whether she asks me to or not. I do know from her breeder that in her lines one had a brain tumour and died very young which has always been a worry of mine if she has any neurological concern and with that grimace she does. I did bring this up with the vet years ago and they didn’t seem to think anything of it. I’ve never seen any dog do what she does with that grimace. But other than than she seems very alert, very good at doing training, very attentive. She is moody and I wonder if it’s hormones. She sometimes gets really excited to see puppy and I have kept puppy on lead with big dog rolling all over the ground showing off for puppy or I’m sure some actual dog communication behaviour and she will roll around right at puppy and make funny sounds and puppy will at that point sort of get on her chest and try to move with her and that’s the closest to contact they’ve had and they seem to enjoy it. But then she can be moody and just a little later want nothing to do with puppy or even look at her. I want to be brave and let puppy off lead and see what happens but also my girl is quite big compared to petite puppy (she does have long legs though) and she could so quickly do something to puppy if she decided. I was thinking of getting one of those short grab leashes and using that on them. In the podcasts that were recommended though it seems like it’s not a good idea to just let them be together because if something does happen it can really hurt puppy’s confidence. I really think when she’s in that good mood she needs a good play with puppy and just get to know her. It’s really upsetting me that I don’t trust my own dog. The other older dog can be a bit grumpy now and then but he is so good with puppy. She has never jumped on him or pulled his ears because he does a very low key growl and she gets down low. They will wonder around together and he has never mouthed her, nipped her or even nearly. He is that really well bred trusted Labrador. He will ask to go through the baby gate and go lie down near her and watch over her. He even has gotten in her crate and had a little doze and she got in there with him and cuddled him a moment before he thought that was too much and stepped out but it doesn’t bother him if she touches him or anything. Although my Golden comes from a reputable breeder I’ve always wondered if she wasn’t socialised too well in her first 8 weeks and that perhaps there was something that wasn’t great in the parents mixed together as several puppies have had physical/illness issues young. So far though my girl has been really healthy and happy most her life.

Hi everyone, still struggling quite a bit here. Puppy is going well, she is in puppy class and just loves it. She loves to learn and is super smart and has super focus. Mostly she’s a very good girl but does a few cheeky puppy things but overall is soft and gentle. Last night she was on her couch where she sleeps at night. She also has her own bed and an open crate in a gated area of the house and she chooses where she wants to be in that room. She mostly sleeps all night. So last night she was asleep on her couch but had only just fallen asleep, big dog needed to go outside which meant going through the gated room. Usually I would get puppy to go in her pen in the other room before letting big dog through but as she was asleep I decided let her through. Puppy was a bit startled awake, not by any noise but she must have just opened her eyes briefly or smelt her or something and she barked a few times like a protection bark before she realised what it was. Immediately big dog got very scared. Big dog had only trotted to the door and had taken no notice of puppy until the bark. Big dog was terrified. Her tail went between her legs and she sort of curled into her body while still standing and decided to run back the other way through the baby gate. I then got a lead on and led her through and she was fine once she got outside. Puppy stayed on the couch. I did get puppy to go into her pen when big dog came back inside. My dog is terrified of all sorts of things now. She has always been a bit sensitive but she used to be such a happy girl. The reason why I thought of posting is because I was just watching videos of her at about age 1 and 2. She was racing around the room with her extended dog family including toy breed dogs who were chewing their special chews (no aggression whatsoever or resource guarding) and she’s having such a good time and they were all so happy and all got along so well. She was confident and in her ‘pack’. Now her pack has all changed. She doesn’t have the toy dogs anymore as they moved although she still does get to see them sometimes. They were younger than her and she liked to act like their mum, licking their faces and hanging out with them. She however didn’t really have a lot of interaction with them until they were fully grown because of the size difference. She does still have her big dog brother. I don’t know what to do to get her confidence up. Puppy is now 4 months and there hasn’t been a pack developed because they are kept separate. I have watched a lot of the podcasts that were recommended and soon I will have some holidays and free time to really extensively work on the advice and all the games to play. We have done a little bit. I also have a muzzle that she doesn’t mind wearing but I rather not put it on her so we haven’t done that again lately. Last time she had it on she was outside with puppy and other dog just chewing on sticks and all was fine then puppy went up to her and got in her face without touching and she went for her in the muzzle, it’s one of those proper ones and I put my hand instinctively between them which was stupid and the muzzle hit my finger so hard that it broke skin. Some things I want to do with big dog: - More of her favourite walk trails, she is so happy in the photos I took of her on them - Short training walks to build on our bond more since she’s sharing me with puppy now - Maybe get her back to the huge dog park she used to love, there is heaps of room that dogs aren’t all near her but I would only do this with extreme caution. I stopped taking her after reading about what can happen there. But there is grass and smells and water to swim and she loves all that and although I have a huge yard for her to run around in I don’t have real grass for her to roll in - Pack walk, is that a real thing? She hasn’t yet gone on a walk with puppy but enjoys walks with other dog - Training class although I’m a little apprehensive of if being close to strange dogs will make her nervous but maybe it’s a good thing to still push through and socialise her to being used to being around new dogs? - Vet check and possible anxiety medication - Instead of ‘putting her away’ from puppy and separating them keep them together and puppy on a lead and train puppy to stay on mat and respect her She is fine with puppy doing whatever puppy does as long as she doesn’t get in her face or touch her or around anything she sees valuable. She doesn’t have any problem whatsoever with her big brother dog chewing on a stick with her or touching her. In fact I’ve noticed that other dog sort of acts like her therapy dog or something, she is much happier around him and gains a confidence in herself with him being there. They are super attached and he is getting old now and I won’t ever force anything but I’d so love for her to get attached to puppy and hopefully ease the transition of what has to happen eventually. I have noticed that when puppy comes in or goes out from her pen in the other room that I put big dog in bedroom with a treat. I think this is reinforcing her to think she needs to be away from puppy. I want to do the opposite with the podcast that talks of doing ‘Easter cookies’ and giving her lots of little treats when puppy comes inside (through a barrier) so she has positive associations with puppy coming inside and watching puppy come in. I am going to work super hard in the coming weeks and hopefully she will accept puppy. I somehow need to ease my fears too. It’s not just the upset I get at puppy being hurt by her, but the upset of my dog who is just my sweetheart being so upset in this new situation and not being able to help her. Seeing how she used to be and seeing how she is now. I also don’t know for sure if she is just wanting to correct puppy or if she is actually wanting to hurt her if she feels offended. I wish I had someone to observe it and am looking into trainers. Thanks for reading. It is breaking my heart seeing her so unhappy. Edited to add: Both the big dogs sleep in the bedroom on the bed. Puppy has never been on the bed. She was sleeping in a baby pen just outside of the room and has outgrown it mostly so is now sleeping in the other big room with baby gates and she is quite happy. Doesn’t whine and she can see into the bedroom if she looks at a certain angle and will stand at the gate and do a quick bark if she needs to go outside to toilet although most nights she sleeps through. I would like to bring her into the bedroom but she just seems happy with the current setup and has never had her crate closed so not sure if we could really do that in the bedroom. But this set up is just another way of keeping the separate so I wonder if they would be better together if kept together in the bedroom.

Thank you for that. I do feel like she needs a vet check. Maybe it’s just a new puppy in her life but she has been acting sort of startled now and then. She has always been a bit sensitive but she usually is quite a happy carefree dog. She has had some other big changes in life recently too with a family member moving out and taking a dog with them that she was quite close to. They do still see each other but not as often now. Thank you for the tips on trainers. I have always leaned towards positive training and my Golden has really been very good at that. She pretty much never gets into trouble or does anything bad. It’s just this difficulty with her accepting puppy into her space.

Thanks. I’ll check out those podcasts. Puppy really took to going in crate the moment I set it up. She is used to a playpen. She enjoys taking her toys in the crate. I haven’t at all shut the door on her. I actually would like to get her to sleep in the crate in the bedroom if possible because she is still getting me up to go outside to toilet a few times through the night from her playpen in the living room. She often wants to play in the middle of the night too and I was thinking the crate with a cover partly over it might settle her into a deeper sleep. If she sleeps in her crate in the bedroom with the big dogs out of the crate would that be a bit of a bonding exercise even? There is a second bigger crate that she has also played in and our elderly dog enjoyed going in too although they have never been crate trained or had one before. Thanks again everyone.

I am considering a home visit and have looked up a couple trainers in the area. They were only around food the one time with the dog biscuit, the other time was when puppy put her paws up onto my older dog’s side/close to face area. It was while older dog was standing at the treat cupboard though (hoping I’d come over and open it) so maybe it was still over food? I have another elderly dog (Labrador) who she has no guarding issues with at all with anyone including puppy. That dog is also great with puppy but doesn’t really play. We haven’t used crates but I do have one and puppy likes going in there just naturally on her own but I’ve never forced her in. My older dog doesn’t like small spaces, whenever she sleeps it’s stretched out, she won’t get up on the armchair but loves the couch for instance so I’m not sure if she’d like a crate but I’ll try. I will start feeding puppy in hers. They have always been fed separately, older dog and my other dog have always eaten together and can eat out of the same bowl, not that I encourage that. I can also touch any food including a bone and she doesn’t react at all. So she’s having a hard time accepting puppy into the pack? I’ve kept them too separate? Or is it because she’s the third dog? Or puppy is just so at the bottom of the pack? I really feel my dog is insecure and I’ve noticed recently she has startled a couple times here and there easily which she never had before. Once was when puppy made a noise touching her pen. But maybe also she doesn’t want to get in trouble from me about puppy. She always is a good dog and hates even the slightest of little correction. Thanks for all the support everyone.

The hot zone and being on mat learning self control and giving my older dog confidence is a great idea. Puppy has NEVER jumped on older dog or mouthed her or anything like that. The only play they have done was contactless. Puppy put her paws up onto older dog and held them there very gently and before I got there she reacted. Puppy is super gentle and not mouthy but also I haven’t let them be together. Puppy is always separated either with a barrier or in her playpen. She doesn’t even sleep in the same room as older dog. They have had very limited interaction due to when she was so little and the incident with the dog biscuit. Older dog can see me taking care of puppy and see her in her pen and through the baby gates. Her life has changed dramatically but I have tried my best to keep her protected from any puppy antics. I think perhaps I have protected them both too much. Is anyone able to direct me on how to help build a relationship between them slowly? I have tried giving treats for watching puppy through barrier and that goes down well. I haven’t given any treats together since the dog biscuit happened and I’m unsure whether to try using a toy with them, like playing fetch together as I don’t know if older dog would want to share toys. Puppy is just about ready to start walks so I was planning on walking them both sometimes together to see if they enjoy that. Older dog is definitely interested in puppy and when puppy was little and cried older dog seemed alarmed. Puppy was asleep and started crying in her sleep very loudly (this was before anything between the two of them happened) and older dog raced to where she was behind the barrier and alarmed me and looked very concerned. And when I have let them play a few times older dog gets so super happy to see puppy but doesn’t touch puppy. She rolls around on the ground and makes funny sounds and then starts zooming around happily. I feel like I should be brave and let them be together under supervision in the backyard but it’s just so scary for me as puppy is so petite and so soft natured. Other info, puppy is very good at showing her belly and getting down low. It was very out of character when she went over to older dog and put her paws on her. I think it scared older dog who is also very soft natured and also disrespected her.

Thank you everyone for easing my stress a little. The sound of puppy screaming was so horrible and so new to me. My older dog is usually so sweet and happy that it really shocked me too. I have to try to be braver and let them get used to each other instead of keeping them separate the majority of the time. I would never leave them unsupervised for both their sakes. I don’t want puppy annoying older dog either. I do need to have some more special one on one time with my older dog, that has been lacking because it’s been so busy.

Hi everyone. I was hoping that someone may be able to give me some advice of whether this behaviour is normal and if not where to go from here. I have a really lovely Golden Retriever female who is 6. She is very puppy like still in that she’s playful but she does enjoy napping most of the day. I have had her from a pup and am considering contacting her breeder from on here about this. I love this dog so very much and want to help her feel better. Enter puppy. The sweetest little girl, so gentle, also a Golden, not mouthy, soft natured. She is now 3 and a half months old. She’s in puppy school and so smart. The Goldens enjoy playing little hide and seek sort of games together but they have only been able to do this a few times. One day when puppy was very little they were playing outside all fine, older Golden was waving a toy for puppy to sort of chase her and all was really good. That evening I made the mistake of giving older dog a treat biscuit while I thought puppy was occupied across the room. All of a sudden the biscuit broke in half and some of it dropped, puppy ran over to that direction and older dog grabbed her by the neck and pinned her down making a horrible viscous mauling sound. She didn’t leave a mark but puppy just screamed and screamed so loudly and so horribly. I carried her in my arms as she still screamed into the other room (There are baby gates up to separate them). She was fine and settled quickly and I did then go growl at my older dog which perhaps I shouldn’t have. The behaviour was unusual from older dog and made me cry that she could do that to the puppy. I also felt terrible that I set them up for failure without thinking. Puppy was fine after that and wanted to still play with older dog but because I was scared I kept them separated. They could still see each other and I incorporated lots of treat rewards for being near puppy but with a barrier between. I then started letting them be together a bit outside with puppy on a lead and it worked really well. I even let her off the lead a little and she was very respectful and older dog was very happy rolling around and trying to play. They also just last night had a wonderful little play together. Puppy was showing her belly and respecting older dogs space. Then tonight, older dog was outside and puppy on my lap having a cuddle. Older dog then came inside and I let puppy in the same room as older dog. Puppy ran straight to older dog and before I could get to her she put her paws up on older dog’s side close to her face and just as I got there older dog again grabbed her by the neck and held onto her scruff but it was more at the front of her neck. There wasn’t all the horrible mauling sound but she had pulled puppy’s skin out an inch or more and was holding onto it fiercely. I managed easily to then pull older dog off her and she released her. Puppy screamed so loudly and kept on screaming. There was no mark and puppy calmed down and is now playing. I was starting to cry because of the stress and worry and not knowing what to do. Older dog sat in front of me looking very sad and was trying to offer me her paw as if to say sorry. Older dog is now in the bedroom, not punished, that’s just a space she likes being, while puppy is out here playing. It seems to be a problem when puppy touches older dog. Older dog seems happy to play keep away or light chaises or hide and seek but doesn’t want contact. I know that dogs train puppy’s how to act and I know they can be a bit fierce, but I’m still worried because of the puppy’s terrible screaming from it and how older dog doesn’t growl or show teeth first. Is there something wrong with my dog for her to treat a puppy like this or is that the appropriate reaction to puppy getting into her space? What should I do when this happens? Am I making it worse by consoling puppy and getting mad at older dog? Do we have any hope of things getting better? Does older dog need a vet visit to check hormones or anything? It’s so horrifying seeing my lovely gentle dog do this to a sweet little puppy. Thanks for reading and for any ideas and thoughts.