cazxxz

I always have two cautions in the back of mind when I wonder if a raw/barf /prey model is absolutely the best food for my dogs in this day and age.

The first is that the nutritional quality of the human grade meat I buy has itself changed with farming methods- for example, I have read reports from human nutritionalists on how much less iron is in a chicken drumstick from the meat birds bred today than even 25 years ago, and the lesser amount of that nutrient today in the same quantity of chicken was staggering. I have also read that the nutritional analysis of a grain feed animal isn't the same as in a grass fed animal - the amount and proportion of different types of fat is different for one thing. Not as much of an issue here as in the USA but a lot of our meat animals even here are finished off on grain.

The second thing that sticks in my mind is the anecdotal stories from people with breeds similiar to mine, and these are relatively old breeds, that their traditional diets were nowhere near as rich in fat and protein, and that nutritionally dense 'western' diets are not good for these breeds. It's just anecdotal but it kind of correlates with the article stormie posted.

It reminds me not to get too precious in recommending a prey model diet - which is what I mostly feed - as if it were a perfect answer.

Changes to farming practices will have affected the meat that is used in kibble as much as it has affected human grade meat, so I'm not sure how this is relevant to your opinion of a raw diet? In your mind and mine, the best diet is still going to be raw.

Jake has been on Sasha's Blend and Joint Guard for a few weeks now. The scientist in me knows how stupid that is, because I won't know which is working.. but I won't buy SB again unless JG doesn't keep him improving the way he is. Jake is a hoover but he doesn't like SB. He gets it down eventually. Poor boy. It stiiiiinks, but that would normally be an attractive feature to him!

I have noticed some improvements already. He seems more energetic, which I am hoping is due to reduced pain. His joint is still very noisy but hopefully he will continue to improve.

My dog always needs his sacroiliac joint adjusted, and sometimes he limps, so I have decided to try Joint Guard and Sasha's blend after reading this thread. I am hoping to prevent further damage, and if he improves I will be very impressed.

I can't comment on the service just yet, but I found JG much cheaper than the websites mentioned in the thread, so here is where I bought it: Aussie Vet Products

I got a couple from http://www.kvvet.com/ but I bought more than just the toys. I can't remember how the prices compared to other sites, but the shipping wasn't cheap.

Out of interest, what size dogs do you have? Jake doesn't like his Nylabones.. I could see how well they clean up if you're interested.

If your dog doesn't need a bath, don't give him one. That'd be my answer whether your dog had stitches or not. I would definitely leave off bathing until stitches were out.

I think we bath our dogs too often.

I agree. I only bathe Jake once a month - it'd be less often if he wasn't such a filth-magnet. I usually time it with his chiro appointments just as a courtesy, but I underestimated how traumatic the biopsies would be to the tissue on his neck. I will just have to clean him as best as possible, probably without running water, and bake something extra special for his chiropractor

Yes. Four on the neck, two on the chin.

Best to keep him dry until the stitches are out

Should I keep his whole body dry, do you think? Or just the area around the stitches?

Yes. Four on the neck, two on the chin.

How soon after your dog has had surgery would you resume baths?

Jake had some biopsies on Friday and he needs.. well, I want to give him a bath. Want, not need. I could avoid the biopsy sites and just wash them with salt water.

Also, do you have any advice for getting him to stop scratching? The wounds are on his chin and neck, so he can't lick them, but I have caught him scratching them. I have two e-collars here but I don't like how tight I have to get the collar to make them stay put. They really have to stay in the one place if I use them, otherwise they'll irritate the wounds.

Thanks in advance!

A chicken neck is the last thing I'd give him - the absolute perfect size to go straight down the "wrong pipe" - terrible things for any dog big enough to swallow on whole

You're right. I was imagining them frozen together, the way my dog gets them

That must have been so scary

I only bought my dog an ox tail once. He started to choke on it, and it had to be yanked from his throat. I won't buy any again. It's the only time Jake has ever choked on a bone, and that was when he was about 18 months old (he's now six years old). So maybe dogs get better with experience.

As others have said, try getting bigger bones. If he just needs the edge taken off his hunger, maybe give him a couple of chicken necks, then a lamb, pork, or beef bone.

my current favourite explained it's the teeth that damage his bandsaw.

I wonder, then, why they don't offer to cut it transversely? That would avoid cutting the teeth!

Thanks for the removal and hosing tip. It might be easier to just stick with the more appropriately sized lambs' heads though

I have not heard of this recipe, would you be able to let me know it please,

http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?showtopic=185629 This thread has a discussion of satin balls. One poster I agreed with recommended feeding lamb and sardines instead of satin balls. Lamb seems to be quite fattening for some dogs, so that would be worth a try! I hope your vet has some insight

it was hoped that the metamucil would help my efforts - it was all they could come up with. I'll try the psyllium husks, they cant hurt, and they may help. At least it looks as though I should be able to get her to take them

You may already know this, but psyllium husks are the main ingredient in Metamucil anyway. Metamucil has lots of extra things added to make them easier to consume. Psyllium husks on their own are cheaper but it's like eating cardboard, so definitely mix them in with your girl's food Good luck! I love psyllium, we should all be eating it! (Just remember to make sure medication is taken at least two hours before or after.)

My favourite teeth cleaning bone is a beef chuck bone as it has lots of angles and is a good challenge.. I take away whatever is left after an hour or 2 so it doesn't get buried for later LOL

Excellent, I will buy some next time I visit the butcher. I don't think I've bought chuck bones before

The only bones I really avoid are pork bones as they seem very sharp and brittle.

My dog's diet is mostly pork bones! I agree the fragments left behind are sharp, but Jake can eat the whole bone (shoulder blade or leg), so I am happy with them, and I just pick up the fragments from the yard. Pork bones helped him lose weight. He was chubby from lots of lamb when he was a pup.

Melbourne, VIC:

I still get lots of food from Queen Victoria Market. I may be defecting though - last week I got pork bones from Preston Market, $5 for 2 kg, and they had so much more meat on them (I guess that makes them worse butchers, but it works in my favour). The stall I bought from also had pigs' heads. Not sure if they'd cut the heads.

The fish was cheaper, I got lots of chicken frames ($1/kg) and chicken necks (can't remember the price), and a lamb's heart, lungs and liver all still connected ($4).

My dog has been getting bones and offal straight from the freezer for a few years now. Should I rethink this approach? Or is it just really cold water and ice that's risky? Hmm.

At Coles, I found some packaged pet grade meat that doesn't claim to have no preservatives, but the label doesn't seem to state what preservatives it contains. It says it contains a couple of different kinds of meat, and "vitamins". Are any vitamins also preservatives?

I'm not that keen on buying the stuff anyway because I don't even trust the human grade offcuts at Coles, but I am still interested in how informative the labels are required to be.

*edited to remove a word

I go to the fish section of markets and look for whole fish of the right size. I go by price too - I don't like to spend more than $5/kg. If I haven't bought the fish before, I ask if it has any spines or venom or anything that might not be so good for my dog. Fresh sardines are great, and are bigger than canned sardines. I think at the moment I have whiting in the freezer.

Jake got his first salmon head last week and loved it, but he is great at pulverising whatever I give to him. The next salmon head has a long spine and I was wondering if it'd be safe to feed to him, but I guess it'll be fine :cool:

An average week for Hope (17kgs & with a throat condition that doesn't allow whole bones) - she eats 'Big Food Fed Less Often', since she's a greedy eater who loves to eat, but gains weight easily;

Monday: whole ox heart, three tsps of chicken frame mince

Tuesday: 3 tsps of chicken frame mince

Wednesday: 3 tsps of chicken frame mince, chunk of liver

Thursday: pork hock (on the bone, but she doesn't eat the bone)

Friday: 3 spoons of chicken frame mince, 1 egg

Saturday: 1/2 an ox tongue

Sunday: 3 tsps of chicken frame mince

Three teaspoons of chicken frame mince? Oh man. My dog's attitude towards food sounds like Hope's, but he's 30 kg. I will be showing my mother Hope's diet so that she stops thinking I'm starving Jake!

(Please don't think I'm being critical - it sounds to me like you are in control and doing what's best for your dog's health, which is what I am aiming for too!)

I stuff Jake's Kong with mince, commercial BARF mix, organs, pieces of fruit... I stuff whatever in, seal it with more mince or cream cheese spread (Jake doesn't like peanut butter), then place the Kong in the freezer. This is always instead of one of his regular meals though.

Cat food is higher in fat, I believe.

There is a West Australian company called Tinderbox that makes lots of herbal and natural remedies. I have the Doggy Blend. It smells great but we don't have a big flea problem in our area. Has anyone else tried it?

Are they really difficult to cut up? - you could try a hacksaw blade - my OH cut up a big done for me with his the other day - takes a while but did the job

Might have to find one of those hacksaw blades. I ruined a knife just trying to finish off the job that the QVM stall assistant did. It was a cheapish knife, though - not going to risk our better knives.

Melbourne, Victoria

I get most of my dog's food from Queen Victoria Market.

The pork butchers right up one end, away from the seafood, sell trays of pork bones with a decent amount meat for $3 a tray (~1.5 kg per tray, I think). Lamb shanks from there are cheapest of all the stalls I've seen at the market. Lambs' heads are $4 each from a shop at one end in the central aisle (not sure how to describe the location - sorry!). Offal is available from all the butchers. Freshest seems to be at the big stall near the aforementioned pork butcher. I get roo tails from the deli at $6 each and get them cut up (I think they proprietors hate me for this..). Poultry and game can be bought in the deli. I stock up on whole small fish when they are available at $4-$5.50/kg.

The shops on Victoria Street, Richmond, are pretty good for bones and offal too.

When I go away, I buy the frozen BARF-style mix from the Wagging Tail boutique in Ivanhoe. It's no more than $7/kg. Good stuff.

I have found roo tails much cheaper (pet grade) but the store owners won't cut them up for me. Does anyone know where I can get them (preferably north-eastern suburbs or inner city)? I don't want to regularly give my dog a kilogram of food in one meal if I can avoid it.

Is he single??

My colleague has a BC who doesn't seem to tolerate lamb shanks. After eating them, he vomited and was very uncomfortable and in pain. The vet advised my colleague to stop feeding her dog bones (I believe lamb shanks were all she had tried) and to feed a kibble for sensitive stomachs (I think Science Diet) because the bones were splintering and injuring his stomach.

Does this sound right? Would softer bones (eg chicken necks or carcasses, roo tails, or pork) have the same effect? Could the dog be sensitive to bacteria from the raw food rather than the sharp bones? My colleague is concerned about her dog's teeth and potential vet bills from not eating bones and would love to feed a raw diet if it was an option.

Any experiences or advice would be appreciated.