Jumping Dog

[bordersrule]

Hi All,

I am hoping that someone on here might be able to give me some advise.

My OH and I have a gorgeous natured Border Collie x Heeler bought from a shelter earlier this year.

She has a very bad habit of jumping up and nipping and licking. Now when I say jump I mean she can jump and nip my face and I am 6 foot tall.

We have tried a few different methods of stopping this behaviour. We have tried "NO" comand and a light tap on the nose this just gets her more excited. We have tried ignoring her and turning our backs to her but she will still jump and grab your hair. We have tried putting her in a sit command (she knows how to sit normally during training) but she just tunes out. She ignores us totally. We have also tried water, this temporarily works and then she is back doing it again.

We have hit a road block and are a little worried as it looks like it is getting worse. She is usually a beautiful girl who loves lots of cuddles.

Has anyone had this problem before and if so how have you come up with a solution or if anyone could please give us some advice on how to stop the jumping.

Thankyou in advance

** edited to change title and spelling **

Edited December 11, 2007 by bordersrule

[Cosmolo]

If you can predict the times the dog will jump up, i would set the dog up on lead and consider giving a lead correction. You can also reinforce your sit command when she is in that frame of mind. It sounds like she may be in drive while she's doing this so the timing of the correction is vital so that she doesn't get to enjoy the behaviour.

I would also try training her in drive so that you can teach her how to come out of drive and respond to a command. Obedience that is taught using pack or food rewards generally doesn't carry over well to situations when the dog is highly aroused or in prey drive.

[jaybeece]

It sounds like you're more or less going in the right direction, but the key is to be very consistant and very persistant.

Jumping is a self rewarding behaviour which means the dog gets something out of it and will keep doing it as long as the reward exists. So the first step is to remove the reward which is where turning away comes into it. There's also aversion (squirting with water).

Generally though you also need to put a bit of work into showing the dog how to get the reward in an appropriate way as well, so having her sit before getting attention comes into it.

I know you said you've already tried that, but once again you need to keep at it and make sure you're being consistant.

So say you come into the house and she's jumping around like a maniac. Turn away and keep turning away if she jumps. When she stops jumping calmly tell her to sit. If she does it she gets attention. She probably won't be able to contain herself to stay sitting for a pat, so build it up over time.

I had the same problem with my dog for some time and it really didn't get sorted out until I became very consistant. I did everything right most of the time, but it was the occasions when I let it slide that meant he wasn't learning not to jump.

Edited December 11, 2007 by jaybeece

[Erny]

We have tried ignoring her and turning our backs to her but she will still jump and grab your hair. We have tried putting her in a sit command (she knows how to sit normally during training) but she just tunes out. She ignores us totally. We have also tried water, this temporarily works and then she is back doing it again.

It is difficult to identify with the little information and without seeing your dog, but it is possible that your dog's behaviour indicates a leadership problem? IE That SHE thinks she is leader? Rather than ONLY looking at the symptomatic behaviour (ie the jumping up; ensued by nipping if you ignore), look to see if there are other things that you can be doing to adjust/enhance your leadership status. Eg. NILIF

The other question I ask is how long has the behaviour been occurring and how much time have you spent on each method?

The "ignoring" might have been working, but you've (understandably) quit before her extinction burst has expired. She learns from that to escalate her behaviour to nipping to demand your attention - and she learns that this works.

In what circumstances does she exhibit the jumping up behaviour?

Edited December 11, 2007 by Erny

[Griffo]

Firstly i would be checking leadership to make sure it is right on track.... make sure you are implementing programs like NILF, TOT etc.

If your leadership is in order then..

Put her on a good correction collar (prongs work a treat, but you might get away with a choker). Put your foot on the lead so she has no idea you are involved with the correction, then encourage her to jump up.

She will get a correction which wont be associated with you. Encourage her a few times to jump up ensuring you keep your foot on the lead, until she chooses not to.

The best way to train your dog is to put them in a position where the right behaviour is a choice they make themselves ... and the wrong behaviour is uncomfortable. You are making the wrong behaviour uncomfortable which will cause the dog to choose the right behaviour.

Some people believe that this may damage the relationship between you and your dog, but that is not the case at all. You are happily encouraging her to jump up, your not even holding the lead, your body is not yanking anything, in the dog's eyes you are the good happy person standing there doing nothing and the correction is happening from unknown source. No damage to rship at all.

You should only need to do it a few times, maybe on a few different occasions depending on how imbedded the behaviour is.

The problem waiting for the behaviour to occur on its own is that behaviours like this often happen at times where you are coming home from work, walking in the gate, your hands are full, the dog doesnt usually have a lead and correction collar all set up ready to go, so it is very unpractical.

It is better to set the situation up so the only result possible is success rather than giving the dog more opportunities to practice the behaviour.

Edited December 11, 2007 by Rachelle

[bordersrule]

Thankyou for the advise, I appreciate all the help I can get. I would like to solve the problem before it gets totally out of hand

Jaybeece at the moment we are showing her acknowledgement for jumping on us but that is only because we are trying to stop it. You also had some really good pointers that I would be interested in giving a go. Thankyou

I would also try training her in drive so that you can teach her how to come out of drive and respond to a command. Obedience that is taught using pack or food rewards generally doesn't carry over well to situations when the dog is highly aroused or in prey drive.

Cosmolo,

Drive is something that I have little knoweledge on. How do you encourage Drive and then use it to your advantage? Sorry if I sound silly it is just something that I have not read a lot on.

We have tried ignoring her and turning our backs to her but she will still jump and grab your hair. We have tried putting her in a sit command (she knows how to sit normally during training) but she just tunes out. She ignores us totally. We have also tried water, this temporarily works and then she is back doing it again.

It is difficult to identify with the little information and without seeing your dog, but it is possible that your dog's behaviour indicates a leadership problem? IE That SHE thinks she is leader? Rather than ONLY looking at the symptomatic behaviour (ie the jumping up; ensued by nipping if you ignore), look to see if there are other things that you can be doing to adjust/enhance your leadership status. Eg. NILIF

The other question I ask is how long has the behaviour been occurring and how much time have you spent on each method?

The "ignoring" might have been working, but you've (understandably) quit before her extinction burst has expired. She learns from that to escalate her behaviour to nipping to demand your attention - and she learns that this works.

In what circumstances does she exhibit the jumping up behaviour?

Erny,

The behaviour has been going for a good 3 - 4 months steadily getting worse over time. I probably have not spent enough time on each method as what I should have.

She exhibits the jumping when we go outside to see the dogs or in the mornings when I am letting them outside and when walking outside in general. Also when we are going for a walk.

I know a lot of these things are exciting and she mostly shows these signs when she is over excited, it is just knowing how to manage it correctly without doing more damage.

Something I also wanted to mention is that she is lowest ranked dog in the pack. Could that be an influence in her trying to be leader of us?

[Griffo]

Are you ranked above the other dogs in the pack?

Unless she is a rank dog then i doubt she would be trying to dominate you... does she accept being the lowest ranked dog in your pack? Has she shown any aggression towards the higher ranked dogs in your pack?

It sounds like excitement to me, from when you say she is doing it. If that is the case then she just needs to be taught that jumping up is no longer comfortable.

[Erny]

Something I also wanted to mention is that she is lowest ranked dog in the pack. Could that be an influence in her trying to be leader of us?

No - it's either a case of you are recognised as pack leader by your dogs, or you're not.

There are numerous things you can do - these are generally daily interactions, direct and indirect. Sometimes some dogs will rise to the challenge with certain tactics (even tactics which at first glance to the novice would appear fairly benign) which is why I tend to hesitate to put them out as "advice" without knowing your dog.

But fairly safe are tactics such as NILIF (Nothing In Life Is Free) .... this is where your dogs don't receive ANYTHING for nothing. Not a pat; walks; play; car-ride; treat; dinner; ..... nothing that your dog enjoys, for nothing. Have your dog sit; shakepaw; or any other trick/obedience command that YOU chose, before your dog receives something enjoyable from you.

Also of course is "TOT" .... this program is "pinned" at the top of this training forum.

These are just a start. IMO, applying "leadership" from every angle possible is the way to go to get the message across clearly and quickly and to achieve maximum result. But to prescribe more - well, as I said, I don't know your dog. The fact that the dog is already escalating to nipping at you when YOU don't respond the way SHE wants concerns me. Perhaps it is a benign behaviour (even though undesireable), but it is worth taking seriously and nipped in the bud straight away.

[poodlefan]

You have two choices with unwanted behaviour:

Extinguish it - generally an aversive would be required. That might be no more than a 'no reward' which is why some people recommend turning away.

Replace it with a more desireable behaviour - this can be positively trained.

One thing that people have done very successfully is to replace the jumping with a "sit". You teach the sit in more controlled and less exciting circumstances, then build up to higher levels of distraction. Then you reward heavily for sitting, rather than jumping. This can be done by one person, using another as a distraction.

Another option is to teach 'fetch' and offer the dog something to fetch when you go out. Many dogs end up grabbing a toy and presenting it to you as a greeting.

One problem I see with using leash correction for over exuberant greetings, is that first you have to get a leash on the dog. Given that this is happening when you walk into the yard, it's going to take time to get a leash on.

No method will be successful unless you are absolutely consistent. If you only insist on not jumping part of the time, then you won't be able to extinguish or replace it successfully.

Edited December 11, 2007 by poodlefan

[bordersrule]

Are you ranked above the other dogs in the pack?

Unless she is a rank dog then i doubt she would be trying to dominate you... does she accept being the lowest ranked dog in your pack? Has she shown any aggression towards the higher ranked dogs in your pack?

It sounds like excitement to me, from when you say she is doing it. If that is the case then she just needs to be taught that jumping up is no longer comfortable.

She has her moments but 99% of the time she accepts being the lowest ranked dog. She has the occasional tiff with my other girl but is usually submissive towards them. The other 2 dogs definetaly accept my OH and myself as being leader of the pack.

Something I also wanted to mention is that she is lowest ranked dog in the pack. Could that be an influence in her trying to be leader of us?

But fairly safe are tactics such as NILIF (Nothing In Life Is Free) .... this is where your dogs don't receive ANYTHING for nothing. Not a pat; walks; play; car-ride; treat; dinner; ..... nothing that your dog enjoys, for nothing. Have your dog sit; shakepaw; or any other trick/obedience command that YOU chose, before your dog receives something enjoyable from you.

Also of course is "TOT" .... this program is "pinned" at the top of this training forum.

I will be looking into these training methods and seeing if I can implement either of them over a period of time. It will take a little getting used to and a lot of patience but the advice I have received from you all today has been wonderful and has given me a few things to think about and work with.

Thankyou

[Lablover]

I live near you, drop by one day, and I can check out your dog (and you) if you like.

Free, as my husband supports my insanity.

[bordersrule]

Thankyou for the offer to have a look Lablover

I have sent you a PM!!