Training A Foxie-drop Problem

[4 Paws]

Ok,so I own 2 german shepherds and have obedience them both with no problems what so ever.We attend the local obedience club and progressed through the levels very fast,having both in the top level within about 4-5 months.Now my challenge is our foxie.He is about 6 years old and I've never done any training with him apart from sit basically.He's not really my type of dog as obviously I love my gsd's but after watching our club flyball members the other day I deceided I'd like to see about the possibility of him doing flyball so deceided I'd get him up to scratch on some basic obedience.

Now he will sit lovely,even doing an auto sit and heels quite well and I've got him doing quite good stays in a couple of days but we're struggling with the drops.He will drop the front part of his body after luring with food but usually ends up with the bum end still up a bit.He is totally food focused so has learned very quickly to drop to be able to get the treats but I'm struggling to get the rear end down

I'm going to take him to obedience on Sat and don't want to look like a fool after having such well trained german shepherds

Any suggestions

[DeltaCharlie]

Few different methods, not sure which ones you have tried.

- Luring down with food (which sounds like what you are doing anyway). Have you tried touching his bum when it sticks up (not pushing, just kinda resting your hand on it)? Have you tried luring from a sit so that his bum is already down?

- Luring them under your legs. Bend your knees just enough so that he has to crawl to get under them. As soon as he is in position say "drop" and treat him.

- Is he clicker trained? It took me ages to teach Charlie to drop, his bum went up when luring from a sit and he was too big to fit under my legs. In the end I just sat on the grass with clicker at the ready waiting for him to get so bored that he lay down. Took a few minutes for the first few times but then he started to make the connection and he started offering it immediately.

[Erny]

Using the lure hand very subtly and very slightly take your hand back a little. He would have to bring his neck back a bit to be able to 'snuffle' at the treat. This pushes his weight to his back end and usually results in the rump going to the ground.

If that doesn't work, try using your other hand to guide his butt end down. Say your marker word (eg. "yes!") and release the treat to him IMMEDIATELY (but not before) his butt pops down.

[4 Paws]

thankyou for the suggestions,will give them a try

He is not clicker trained.Any ideas how to keep him in a drop for longer than a few seconds as well?.He tends to pop up fairly quickly after been giving the verbal marker and the teat

[DeltaCharlie]

Wait longer and longer to give him the treat. Build him up to having to wait half a second, then a second, then 2 seconds etc.

[4 Paws]

Wait longer and longer to give him the treat. Build him up to having to wait half a second, then a second, then 2 seconds etc.

thankyou,see sonething so easy and you don't think of it when your other dogs have just got it and you've never really had to think about it

[Erny]

thankyou for the suggestions,will give them a try

Any ideas how to keep him in a drop for longer than a few seconds as well?.He tends to pop up fairly quickly after been giving the verbal marker and the teat

If you are not using the "guide show and place" method, then I'd simply work on giving the "yes!" marker word following very quickly with your release word - try to get these words in really fast before he pops back up. Worry about getting the drop right first rather than how much time he stays in the position. But if it is SO immediate to be impossible, try to keep your lure hand (with food) down in place when you release the food though as that might encourage him to remain in the position at least for an extra second whilst he takes it from your hand and give him your release word a nanno second before he takes the treat.

If you were using the "guide show and place" method, then it is simply a matter of not removing your hands to allow him to pop out of the drop straight away. If you don't know the "guide show and place" method, have someone who knows how to do it PROPERLY to show you as it is definitely something that needs to be done correctly for your training sake and for your dog's sake.

[skip]

Hi 4 Paws

Great idea to give flyball a go and you can learn from teaching different types of dogs.

I have a foxy x chi. And she seems to have had similar issues with really keeping that front end on the ground. Her heel and sit were nearly automatic but a drop! What's that!

As DeltaCharlie suggests, I tried holding the food reward a little longer to make sure she is solid. And like yours it can be an automatic pop up. As soon as you reward she is up again. And I wonder if that is a ploy to get another treat for the next drop down?? How clever are these dogs?

However finally with shaping behavior for agility equipment she has turned into a crazy drop machine. I had to practice lots of fast drops for food, and then the drop on the contact plank (along with a nose touch). The table she loves and is keener to drop on. I think at times she is not so keen to drop as when you are only a few kilo it is a pretty submissive and less safe position to be in for her.

With shaping behavior I was told dogs tend to offer the most recent thing they have learnt. So currently she drops all over the place. And nose touches if a drop doesn't get her anything. Even in obedience the other day while she was at heel in a drop she was busy trying to nose touch my toes.

Good luck with your foxie. I had a lab, shepherds and a rottiex before so my current little dogs have been great fun and very rewarding.