More Help Needed - Scent And Assisstance Skills

[tigger000]

Hey guys,

sorry i know i have been bugging you all a bit about this...but the good news is i am finally getting somewhere with the dogs!

So i am using a poodle for my scent detection. He is highly toy motivated (tennis balls in particular), so to begin i have been hiding the tennis ball in the lunch box filled with tea. Each time he sniffed the box and sat, he was rewarded with the ball. He has been doing this great.

As soon as i start introducing another box (non target), its like he's forgotten that he has to sit at the one that smells. Sometimes he will get it straight away and so i jackpot this by playing ball with him for a little bit, but most of the time, he will sniff each box...but just keep moving on...he usually acts more keen on the one with the tea and tennis ball in it...however he wont sit...he just stands there.

As soon as i go back to step one, with just the target box, he sniffs it and sits like he's supposed to.

What am i doing wrong?

And does anyone have any suggestions on how to phase out the tennis ball so i dont have to continue hiding it in the lunch box?

Now for my assisstance skill i am using my dalmation. He's doing fantastic at picking up the rubbish and putting it in the bin and he has stopped dropping it all the time before making it to the bin. The issue i am now facing with him, is that i will get someone else to place the rubbish on the ground (the dog is watching the person do this)...but as soon as i give him the cue "rubbish"...he just looks at me and doesnt seem to see where the rubbish actually is?

Its not until i walk right up to the item, point at it and go "here it is"...that he realises and comes and picks it up.

Any ideas why he might be doing this and how to overcome it?

Thanks guys

[Nekhbet]

sounds like you have inadvertantly taught your dogs to look for other cues

Its not until i walk right up to the item, point at it and go "here it is"...that he realises and comes and picks it up.

you have taught him this is what he waits for. Go back a couple of steps, it seems he thinks that only you acknowledging the rubbish means he is to pick it up and put it in the bin. What happens if someone else gives him the command? Are you using a clicker or a marker word 'yes' etc?

As for the poodle I dont think he actually has the idea he is meant to be scenting for tea. On box is easy, walk up to it, sit down and you get the ball. Do you hear a loud, active sniff? If not he's not scenting properly.

Do you have to do a passive response dog or can you do active?

One way to fix this is to put tea into a toy of his. Hide his toy around the lounge room etc and have him sniff for it, start really easily and start making it harder gradually. He will want his toy but since its getting out of sight he HAS to use his nose. When he shows interest over where it is tell him to sit, then pull the toy out of its hiding place and give it to him.

Now, when he's troppo over that, hide the toy again but have a toy behind your back. When he finds the toy and sits, you throw the hidden toy straight in front of him so he starts thinking, hey scent = toy pops out at me WHEEEEEEE!

When he's got this down pat, put a box in the room and put tea in it, put it say next to the couch. When he finds it, BANG toy out of nowhere. Then put a couple of boxes around, one with tea, one without. Same deal. This is how you will get him sniffing because he will be forced to use his nose not just his eyes. I trained another dog in scent detection and she was so toy obsessed she wasnt actually sniffing properly, just going through the motions I showed her to make her toy appear. Only when she was encouraged to find the toy she really got it, you could hear that strong air intake which meant the dog was actively processing the scents around her. Tore my kitchen apart AND even scented on the container the scent was stored in because she associated the scent as BEING the toy. She was active response which meant a couple of sauce bottles were sacrificed but oh well, it was too exciting

Remember with scent detection training, if you cant hear the dog sniffing its not really trying. If you see the head just waving about and barely audible sniffs the dog is using its sight more then its nose.

Edited February 10, 2011 by Nekhbet

[clipandcoach]

Hey guys,

sorry i know i have been bugging you all a bit about this...but the good news is i am finally getting somewhere with the dogs!

So i am using a poodle for my scent detection. He is highly toy motivated (tennis balls in particular), so to begin i have been hiding the tennis ball in the lunch box filled with tea. Each time he sniffed the box and sat, he was rewarded with the ball. He has been doing this great.

As soon as i start introducing another box (non target), its like he's forgotten that he has to sit at the one that smells. Sometimes he will get it straight away and so i jackpot this by playing ball with him for a little bit, but most of the time, he will sniff each box...but just keep moving on...he usually acts more keen on the one with the tea and tennis ball in it...however he wont sit...he just stands there.

As soon as i go back to step one, with just the target box, he sniffs it and sits like he's supposed to.

What am i doing wrong?

And does anyone have any suggestions on how to phase out the tennis ball so i dont have to continue hiding it in the lunch box?

Now for my assisstance skill i am using my dalmation. He's doing fantastic at picking up the rubbish and putting it in the bin and he has stopped dropping it all the time before making it to the bin. The issue i am now facing with him, is that i will get someone else to place the rubbish on the ground (the dog is watching the person do this)...but as soon as i give him the cue "rubbish"...he just looks at me and doesnt seem to see where the rubbish actually is?

Its not until i walk right up to the item, point at it and go "here it is"...that he realises and comes and picks it up.

Any ideas why he might be doing this and how to overcome it?

Thanks guys

Hi Tigger!

You are doing the right thing, you just need a little adjustment. It's very simple what's happening here. When teaching a dog something, in the beginning it's best to focus on one thing at a time. Now the main focus here it to target the right box (with the tea). What you are asking your poods to do is to target and then sit. This is a lot to ask in the beginning. In order for him to learn exactly what you want him to do, try one thing at a time. Because he is sniffing the box and you would like him to sit, when you don't reward the targeting without a sit you are wasting valuable learning opportunities. This is confusing him as he's thinking, hmmm i just sniffed it and nothing so i'll move on and try something else. That something else may not always be a sit it might be try and find something else to sniff. So if I was you, I would go back a step. Start with 1 box. When he sniffs it (only) 5/5 times then introduce either a sniff and sit or a second box (where sniff only is expected). If you up the anti in one department (adding a new box) drop the expectations in the other (no sit required yet). Once he is targeting the right box with 2 boxes 5/5 times (successfully 5 times in a row with no mistakes) then you can either add another box or a sit. Just juggle one thing at a time. Also, if u add something new and he gets it right less than 3/5 times I would drop down and make it a bit easier again.

If you need more help let me know! This is the secret to all great dog training!!

Goodluck

[tigger000]

hey guys thanks for your advice, i will give both of those things a try and see how i go.

Nekhbet - i do believe he is actually sniffing the boxes. This is because the boxes have lids on them and look identical - so wouldnt it would be quite hard for him to be more keen on one box (the target box) than the other if he was only using his sight?

I will still use your advice as this would help his response and motivation to do the task!

clipandcoach - thanks, i will definately go back a few steps and msg you if i need more help!!

[Nekhbet]

not necessarily. He knows his toy is in a box, the scent to a dog will be strong and he can get away with a casual sniff instead of putting effort into it. So he's kind of doing, ehhhh its in one of these come on GIVE IT TO MEEEE!

[tigger000]

not necessarily. He knows his toy is in a box, the scent to a dog will be strong and he can get away with a casual sniff instead of putting effort into it. So he's kind of doing, ehhhh its in one of these come on GIVE IT TO MEEEE!

good point!

I did some more work for a bit with him today. The first few runs he did really great. But after a while...he just did the "ill just stand here"....

Nekhbet - do you think if i did as you suggested - hiding the ball around the house etc and getting him to find it...that it would make him put more effort into it when i start hiding it in the box ?

Edited February 11, 2011 by tigger000

[Cosmolo]

If the first few runs were great- you should have stopped, jackpot rewarded and put the dog away.

[tigger000]

yeah cosmolo i did think i was working the dog a bit too long!

[Nekhbet]

hiding it around a room and making it gradialy more difficult 1) keeps the dog interested and 2) is not too monotonous. Same box, same behaviour repeat repeat repeat becomes boring. I know the NDTF train with one box but many dogs can become bored with the same thing and quickly.

[Rottifan]

All early runs must be in dogs favour. EG - BIG ODOUR. The reason why good 'play rewarded' detector dogs work so well is because they are ONLY allowed to play with their toy during training and for their entire life, when they find something. Its not as easy in a home environment because they can use their play drive when they want with other toys and therefore will not continue for as long, unless you stop all play and only play in training to get skills up - depends how important it is to you to teach this or for what!

So if you have chosen tea or coffee. Step one, use the one toy that you will be using for rewarding the behaviour. Initially I would get that toy out once a day to play (no searching anything at the start) BUT make sure that the toy has been sitting in a container with the scent that you will train her on. Therefore you will play catch with a ball or tug of war with a rolled up towel and she will absorb the scent off it while you play. She will soon associate the scent with her toy. For the first few exercises involving search I would continue to use the scented toy to establish that scent association.

First exercise.... put in a line 5 upside down plastic flower pots (with a hole in top/visual aspect to see whats inside) - baby step training. No scents in 4 of them, in one have the odour you're teaching your dog to find plus the dogs scented toy sitting in there, cementing scent association with the beginning of establishing a response or hunt drive. Search along the line with no verbal, when the dog stops at the scented one it should be enough after the scent associated and a slight visual of the toy for your dog to knock/push over the pot and get the toy. Have a BIG game and lots of praise. Gentle quiet 'good boy/girl' encouragement at the nose pushing/prodding of the pot after scent recognition/detection can be given if your dog is not distracted by that. If you can give no verbal then its probably better and save the encouragement/praise until exercises get harder.

After that do another similar exercise but with boxes with the top flaps just folded over, visual aspect so that the dog has to push open and get toy or scratch box to get toy out, big game - verbal praise if struggling to get toy out. If at any stage during the exercise you have realised that you have made it too hard for your dog to get the toy out....have an identical toy in your pocket (unscented) and drop that in near the dogs nose when it is focussed on the box and play the game with that but do it before it becomes a stop stand and look at you so your dog doesnt start to work off your cues.

Work out what sort of response you want, do you want a scratch/active response where your dog find the odour and scratches to indicate to you it is there or do you want a passive/sit response to the odour?

After the first exercises you can start to cement the response because odour recognition and scent association with their play toy should be adequate.