Double Lab Love Posted July 12, 2011 Author Share Posted July 12, 2011 Thank you for all your replies and good wishes for my boy... Ir was also really good to hear that Tango is in safe hands with David.... I had heard he was very good but it is always reassuring to hear from people that have dealt directly with him and are happy with the results.. Newco - thank you for your post - very informative and good to know even after such a big operation she was running around after the all clear... I have done a bit of research now so feel a bit more informed with what we are dealing with.... the post op care is going to be difficult with both of us working full time etc but work will just have to suck it up..... If they kick up too much of a fuss they could find themselves with an in house Lab mascot for 5 weeks so they had better play nice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzy82 Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 so sorry to hear Tango has luxating patella. I hope he gets better soon. I often wander if my Shelley has luxating patella cause every so often she has a limp in her right back leg. Everytime I ask the vet about it they ask to she her walk and run and she happens to walk/run normally at that time. Watching the dog walk/run isn't the way to diagnose it. The vet should feel the knee and try to push the kneecap out of place. How easily it pushes out and how quickly/easily it pops back in determines the grade. Not how often the dog limps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumabaar Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Hi. Thought I would share our luxating patella experience. It may help. Last December CoCo had tibial crest transpositioning (TCT) surgery for a grade 4 luxated patella. Her patella had luxated medially and became lodged there. The following is from the Specialists report after surgery. "CoCo had bony and soft tissue alterations such that the patella is now located in a more correct anatomical position. Two pins have been used to pin the tibial crest (knee cap insertion site) in a more appropriate position. The groove the patella lies in has been deepened and the joint structures on the lateral (outside of the joint) have been tightened." It was quite a big operation and CoCo stayed overnight. It also wasnt cheap $2900.00 and we had only just joined pet health insurance so werent covered. I dont know if pet insurance companies consider this to be a "bi-lateral" condition or not. Post op CoCo had to be crated/playpen for 6 weeks. No running, jumping, stairs etc AT ALL. She had to be ON LEAD when we took her out to the toilet. She could put weight on her leg after the 2nd day but we carried her outside for a few days, then would let her walk (on lead) to the toilet herself....extremely slowly. We had to lift her up/down the back step. As far as medication goes she was on Cephalexin, Metacam and had a Fentanyl patch. After the all clear from the specialist after 6 weeks we slowly re-introduced exercise/length of walks. She is fine now (other than HD) and runs stupid. As her knee structure has been altered, it has affected her gait. Her knee tends to turn out when she walks. Good luck, I hope it all goes well. Slightly off topic- but i think its funny that you say that wasnt cheap. I had an ankle reconstruction earlier this year. My 5 titanium screws cost around $800 each, my plastic fake ligament cost over $3000!! Then there was the surgeons bill, his assistants, the anaesthetist. So all in all I was under for 4 hrs, 5 screws and one plastic thing which ended up costing well over 15,000 (thankfully under health insurance). I personally think people get a pretty good deal from vets ;) To the OP- I worked for David as a night nurse last year. He is really great with clients and in the operating theatre! All his nurses are really professional too lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Lab Love Posted July 12, 2011 Author Share Posted July 12, 2011 Hi. Thought I would share our luxating patella experience. It may help. Last December CoCo had tibial crest transpositioning (TCT) surgery for a grade 4 luxated patella. Her patella had luxated medially and became lodged there. The following is from the Specialists report after surgery. "CoCo had bony and soft tissue alterations such that the patella is now located in a more correct anatomical position. Two pins have been used to pin the tibial crest (knee cap insertion site) in a more appropriate position. The groove the patella lies in has been deepened and the joint structures on the lateral (outside of the joint) have been tightened." It was quite a big operation and CoCo stayed overnight. It also wasnt cheap $2900.00 and we had only just joined pet health insurance so werent covered. I dont know if pet insurance companies consider this to be a "bi-lateral" condition or not. Post op CoCo had to be crated/playpen for 6 weeks. No running, jumping, stairs etc AT ALL. She had to be ON LEAD when we took her out to the toilet. She could put weight on her leg after the 2nd day but we carried her outside for a few days, then would let her walk (on lead) to the toilet herself....extremely slowly. We had to lift her up/down the back step. As far as medication goes she was on Cephalexin, Metacam and had a Fentanyl patch. After the all clear from the specialist after 6 weeks we slowly re-introduced exercise/length of walks. She is fine now (other than HD) and runs stupid. As her knee structure has been altered, it has affected her gait. Her knee tends to turn out when she walks. Good luck, I hope it all goes well. Slightly off topic- but i think its funny that you say that wasnt cheap. I had an ankle reconstruction earlier this year. My 5 titanium screws cost around $800 each, my plastic fake ligament cost over $3000!! Then there was the surgeons bill, his assistants, the anaesthetist. So all in all I was under for 4 hrs, 5 screws and one plastic thing which ended up costing well over 15,000 (thankfully under health insurance). I personally think people get a pretty good deal from vets ;) To the OP- I worked for David as a night nurse last year. He is really great with clients and in the operating theatre! All his nurses are really professional too lol. Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumabaar Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 He also only operates when it really is necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quickasyoucan Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 (edited) Looking at surgery (and particularly post-op care) it often looks scary before you get it done. My boy had a TPLO for a cranial cruciate ligament tear last October. Not only did the op sound scary (and there are lots of horror stories on the internet so don't read the internet!) but the post op 8 weeks confined then build up exercise for 8 weeks on leash sounded like a lifetime. Actually once the stitches were out about 14 days post op it was pretty easy to handle and not nearly as bad as it sounds. My boy was pretty much back to 90% by the time he was given the all clear to be off lead and I reckon was back to as good as new by about 1 month after that. So just to say though it sounds daunting if you have a good specialist, orthopaedic issues don't have to be nightmare to deal with. BTW to the person who said their dog has an intermittent hind limb limp my boy had that on and off for about six months to a year and I mean really on and off (would have had an op earlier otherwise) ie great for months then bad for a couple of days and I think cruciate tears can be a bit like that. Edited July 12, 2011 by Quickasyoucan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdierikx Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 I keep my Lab girl lean because she is a nutjob for zoomies... Here's a pic of her at her perfect weight of 28kgs... She's currently around 31kgs, and looks more like this at the moment... T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Lab Love Posted July 13, 2011 Author Share Posted July 13, 2011 Looking at surgery (and particularly post-op care) it often looks scary before you get it done. My boy had a TPLO for a cranial cruciate ligament tear last October. Not only did the op sound scary (and there are lots of horror stories on the internet so don't read the internet!) but the post op 8 weeks confined then build up exercise for 8 weeks on leash sounded like a lifetime. Actually once the stitches were out about 14 days post op it was pretty easy to handle and not nearly as bad as it sounds. My boy was pretty much back to 90% by the time he was given the all clear to be off lead and I reckon was back to as good as new by about 1 month after that. So just to say though it sounds daunting if you have a good specialist, orthopaedic issues don't have to be nightmare to deal with. BTW to the person who said their dog has an intermittent hind limb limp my boy had that on and off for about six months to a year and I mean really on and off (would have had an op earlier otherwise) ie great for months then bad for a couple of days and I think cruciate tears can be a bit like that. Quickasyou can - you have hit the nail right on the head It does sound daunting re the op and post op care - I keep looking at him and thinking how on earth are we going to keep him quiet for 6 weeks... Added to that since Sunday he has been 100% - no limping etc - so now i am thinking perhaps it is not as bad as we originally thought.... so fingers crossed that it may not need surgery and that if it does it won't be as intrusive and have a quicker recovery.... Sigh - never a dull moment..... My OH has banned me from research on the internet until after his appointment next Tuesday ( DOL excluded) due to my tales of doom and gloom and that is probably not such a bad thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Lab Love Posted July 13, 2011 Author Share Posted July 13, 2011 I keep my Lab girl lean because she is a nutjob for zoomies... Here's a pic of her at her perfect weight of 28kgs... She's currently around 31kgs, and looks more like this at the moment... T. tdierikx - after looking at BOTH weights of your lovely girl - I think Tango could afford to drop another 3-4kgs.... which will bring him to a lovely lean weight of around 32kg... He looks a little bit taller / bigger boned that your girl... I am happy that in 2.5 weeks he has lost 1 1/2 kgs... BUT my girl Tippi She is a much smaller Lab than Tango and on the same diet / more excercise than and half the amount of food Tango has - she is currently 28 kgs I can't see any weight loss... I watch them eating religously so no food stealing and OH is under strict instuctions that he will be excommunicated if he sneaks treats... Is it a male / female thing or can it be the case that some dogs just have a slower metabolism and take longer to lose weight? Just really disheartening as I know she is hungry and is always looking for food in spite of a large bulk up of pumpkin/veges carrot... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mumtoshelley Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 tdierikx your lab is just gorgeous. I took Shelley to the vet tonight,they did the same thing got Shelley walking around and said theres nothing wrong. I said to them you can't tell if she has torn a ligament or luxating patella by seeing how the dog walks. She then said I know you can't but walking does give an inication if there is a problem. She then said we would have to admit her for the day put her under and do x rays. Shelley's limp isn't bad only really happens once in a blue moon specially after exercising. Shelley could be running then she will limp a bit then continue running like it was nothing but then on the way home the limp comes back. Shelley still weighs in at 34kgs the past week she hasn't been exercised as much due to me not feeling well and the cold weather. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdierikx Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Don't be too worried about keeping your boy quiet after his surgery... invest in a decent crate, and he will be just fine in it - they do really adapt to change pretty well. As for the always looking for food and acting like they are starving - well.. they ARE Labs! Mine does the same thing, but we all know she gets enough food... Don't worry too much about the actual weight in kgs on your dogs - judge by their overall shape and condition. The first pic of my girl is what we should be aiming for - the nice tuck of the undercarriage and the general decent muscle coverage over the ribs without looking starved - your dogs and your vet will love you for it, and you will have less chance of joint issues later in life. My girl is a shortish Lab, and possibly has some Dingo in her background (was a BYB from Moree). My brother's pure Lab is a taller and larger boned style of dog, and he weighs in at around 35kgs lean - he has a chunkier build than my girl, but he also has the nice tucked undercarriage and basic shape of my girl in the first picture. T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Lab Love Posted July 14, 2011 Author Share Posted July 14, 2011 Don't be too worried about keeping your boy quiet after his surgery... invest in a decent crate, and he will be just fine in it - they do really adapt to change pretty well. As for the always looking for food and acting like they are starving - well.. they ARE Labs! Mine does the same thing, but we all know she gets enough food... Don't worry too much about the actual weight in kgs on your dogs - judge by their overall shape and condition. The first pic of my girl is what we should be aiming for - the nice tuck of the undercarriage and the general decent muscle coverage over the ribs without looking starved - your dogs and your vet will love you for it, and you will have less chance of joint issues later in life. My girl is a shortish Lab, and possibly has some Dingo in her background (was a BYB from Moree). My brother's pure Lab is a taller and larger boned style of dog, and he weighs in at around 35kgs lean - he has a chunkier build than my girl, but he also has the nice tucked undercarriage and basic shape of my girl in the first picture. T. Thanks to the lovely Steve at K9pro they are crate trained and love their crates so if things go ahead I am so thankful that at least I can crate him... Your brother's Lab sounds like Tango (size/build) and Tango does have a nice tuck and waist but probably not as well defined as your girl - so i am working on that.... Tippi - just looks like a rectangle and everyday I look at her and think come on ribs show yourselves... Sigh... she is on two chicken necks in the am and mashed steamed pupmkin/masses of veges - no carb variety - and raw roo or lean beef mince... AND lots of exercise - so not really sure what else I can do but to perservere.... AND the cold weather is NOT helping those hearty appetites Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzy82 Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 tdierikx your lab is just gorgeous. I took Shelley to the vet tonight,they did the same thing got Shelley walking around and said theres nothing wrong. I said to them you can't tell if she has torn a ligament or luxating patella by seeing how the dog walks. She then said I know you can't but walking does give an inication if there is a problem. She then said we would have to admit her for the day put her under and do x rays. Shelley's limp isn't bad only really happens once in a blue moon specially after exercising. Shelley could be running then she will limp a bit then continue running like it was nothing but then on the way home the limp comes back. Shelley still weighs in at 34kgs the past week she hasn't been exercised as much due to me not feeling well and the cold weather. How silly. When I first got my poodle x and took her to the vet for a general check up, the vet checked her knees while she was at it, because that's how common it is in poodle x's. Then she told me Pixie has LP. You wouldn't even know from looking at her, I've seen her lift one back leg maybe 10 times in the year I've had her. If the vet hadn't told me about the LP I would have thought nothing of it. x-ray? Seriously? Money grabbing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumabaar Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 tdierikx your lab is just gorgeous. I took Shelley to the vet tonight,they did the same thing got Shelley walking around and said theres nothing wrong. I said to them you can't tell if she has torn a ligament or luxating patella by seeing how the dog walks. She then said I know you can't but walking does give an inication if there is a problem. She then said we would have to admit her for the day put her under and do x rays. Shelley's limp isn't bad only really happens once in a blue moon specially after exercising. Shelley could be running then she will limp a bit then continue running like it was nothing but then on the way home the limp comes back. Shelley still weighs in at 34kgs the past week she hasn't been exercised as much due to me not feeling well and the cold weather. How silly. When I first got my poodle x and took her to the vet for a general check up, the vet checked her knees while she was at it, because that's how common it is in poodle x's. Then she told me Pixie has LP. You wouldn't even know from looking at her, I've seen her lift one back leg maybe 10 times in the year I've had her. If the vet hadn't told me about the LP I would have thought nothing of it. x-ray? Seriously? Money grabbing. I guess this is about giving dogs the gold standard of care. And being able to do preventative treatment rather than just dealing with the fall out at the end. You will probably notice this more with the evolving veterinary field, where the focus is slowly changing to a more active dynamic preventative industry. This will probably mean that there is more diagnostic testing done when problems begin to try and prevent the need for surgery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzy82 Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 (edited) Fair enough, but they should be able to diagnose LP without needing x-rays, especially when the owner comes in and says they think their dog has LP. Once they've diagnosed it, if they want to do x-rays to determine how bad it is etc, then that's all good. But when they won't even diagnose it without an x-ray, that's just weird. They wouldn't even check the knees. If nothing else, at least have a feel, then if you can't feel anything wrong and want to do x-rays just to make sure, then that's all good too. Edited July 14, 2011 by fuzzy82 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumabaar Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Fair enough, but they should be able to diagnose LP without needing x-rays, especially when the owner comes in and says they think their dog has LP. Once they've diagnosed it, if they want to do x-rays to determine how bad it is etc, then that's all good. But when they won't even diagnose it without an x-ray, that's just weird. They wouldn't even check the knees. If nothing else, at least have a feel, then if you can't feel anything wrong and want to do x-rays just to make sure, then that's all good too. If you look through enough health threads you will find plenty of vets who have diagnosed LP just by feeling, on a second opinion there is nothing wrong. Some vets have the knack, others just don't and a good vet knows their limitations. I am not saying that the Xrays are necessary, only that we can't actually see what the vet is seeing, thus can not make any judgement about their recommendation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Lab Love Posted July 14, 2011 Author Share Posted July 14, 2011 tdierikx your lab is just gorgeous. I took Shelley to the vet tonight,they did the same thing got Shelley walking around and said theres nothing wrong. I said to them you can't tell if she has torn a ligament or luxating patella by seeing how the dog walks. She then said I know you can't but walking does give an inication if there is a problem. She then said we would have to admit her for the day put her under and do x rays. Shelley's limp isn't bad only really happens once in a blue moon specially after exercising. Shelley could be running then she will limp a bit then continue running like it was nothing but then on the way home the limp comes back. Shelley still weighs in at 34kgs the past week she hasn't been exercised as much due to me not feeling well and the cold weather. How silly. When I first got my poodle x and took her to the vet for a general check up, the vet checked her knees while she was at it, because that's how common it is in poodle x's. Then she told me Pixie has LP. You wouldn't even know from looking at her, I've seen her lift one back leg maybe 10 times in the year I've had her. If the vet hadn't told me about the LP I would have thought nothing of it. x-ray? Seriously? Money grabbing. I agree fuzzy82... mumtoshelley why didn't your vet just manipulate/check the knee instead of watching her walk ? We certainly didn't need xrays to know it was LP as you could feel it - the limp and shake of the hind leg did give it away initially but since Sunday he hasn't done it once but I know it is still there.... Our specialist will do xrays to determine the severity ofthe LP and they advised us it was no point getting xrays done BEFORE we saw him as if they weren't done properly then they would need to be done again anyway and more $$$$$$$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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