Muzzling A Dog

[megan_]

My argument with these coloured collars is they may consititute a form of admission that your dog is a problem in any legal action.

Can you imagine legal people asking why, if you thought your dog was enough of a concern to wear a warning collar, you had it in public, unmuzzled etc?

Or is that just me being paranoid?

And yes, your average Joe Blow wouldn't have a clue a coloured collar meant anything. I can go to the pet store and buy collars in all those colours - why should people thing one in particular means anything special?

I believe the legal argument is a red herring. Everyone is meant to have control over their dogs. If an offleash "don't worry he's friendly!" bails up your dog in the street and your dog is on leash then the other dog's owner is responsible for the outcome.

I believe C&S's problem is roaming dogs so coloured leashes aren't going to help regardless.

There is a great article on how to deal with approaching dogs when you have an off leash dog from Team DINOS (Dogs in Need of Space), I'll try to find it...

ETA: FOUND IT! It is pure gold:

http://notesfromadogwalker.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/hello-off-leash-dogs.pdf

The whole notesfromadogwalker.com site is full of resources for the owners of reactive dogs (and all dogs really)

Edited January 10, 2013 by megan_

[Nekhbet]

Thanks he does have a trainer, but they have said it will always be difficult to have him behave when another dog is being aggressive, which a lot of little dogs are

Rubbish. Dogs like this make up the bulk of my business and that is not true (or I would be out of a job lol) It's a matter of teaching the dog to come to the handler when stressed instead of lashing out which takes time, yes, impossible - no. Well unless the dog truly has a severe mental issue then we think about if a one way trip to the vet is the best option as the dog is unsocial.

http://www.shoof.com.au/auscatalogue/page_93.pdf

The BEST muzzles ever are these Shoof Comfort Muzzles, cheap as dirt and the dog can still pant, drink, eat etc. Very light and dont rub the eyes, all my clients have sung the muzzles praises as the easiest to use. The best way to start is I cram cheese/kabana etc into the end of the muzzle and feed the dog out of it. When the dog puts its head in there willingly we quickly do up the strap, then off, then click, then off, heavily praising the dog and making a fuss. The dogs think they're the best thing since sliced bread within a couple of days.

[chuckandsteve]

Thanks for all the opinions. As I have said he sees a trainer.

Though Nekhbet, I am suprised you would recommend a one way trip to the vet for a dog like him. I agree with her it is unreasonable to expect a person to not defend themselves and I think it is the same for dogs. The worst one we had was with the pug and he was between my legs trying to hide before he bit the pug, he didnt leave a mark on the dog but if it came to court I'm sure I'd lose

[corvus]

I don't think Nekhbet was recommending anything. She hasn't seen your dog, after all, I assume. I take it she was just saying some dogs are seriously anti-social and it's abnormal and one has to question whether the dog can lead a quality life. I think that we have to be careful with this line of discussion, because there are few people who are qualified to assess whether a dog is behaving abnormally. Often something can be done to improve matters, whether that is through training, changing or better managing the environment, or medication (short or long term). If someone declares the dog anti-social and that there's no way to improve its ability to cope with other dogs, how do we know they are qualified to make this call? How do we know it is not a dog that is just beyond their skill set? How do they know? A lot of people have had huge success with teaching alternative coping behaviours for dogs to perform when they see something that worries them, as Nekhbet described, but we have to keep in mind that dogs exist on a continuum of emotional reactivity just like people do. I've seen it suggested that Intermittent Explosive Disorder in humans may be a good model for the way some dogs behave, for example. If a dog is highly emotionally reactive, training can make a huge difference, but it's unlikely to make the dog less emotionally reactive by nature.

[chuckandsteve]

I know she wasn'r saying my dog needed PTS, I just wouldn't think if a dogs only issue is not being able to cope with aggressive dogs running at it while he/she is restrained to even be considered a PTS case.

[Nekhbet]

I know she wasn'r saying my dog needed PTS, I just wouldn't think if a dogs only issue is not being able to cope with aggressive dogs running at it while he/she is restrained to even be considered a PTS case.

I would never consider it a PTS case. I actually said your trainer set the bar too low in their expectations and that your dog has a potential for being better behaved then they told you as it's not that bad a problem.

I said that a dog that has severe issues that have deep roots either genetically, physically etc and that can never be better are a case considered to be PTS if they have NO chance at long term quality of life. I was speaking in general with that sentence. And I mean dogs like one I had that broke open stainless steel vet cages while medicated, and ripped a window frame out of a wall because he couldn't see me. That type of problem.

[Nekhbet]

If someone declares the dog anti-social and that there's no way to improve its ability to cope with other dogs, how do we know they are qualified to make this call? How do we know it is not a dog that is just beyond their skill set? How do they know? A lot of people have had huge success with teaching alternative coping behaviours for dogs to perform when they see something that worries them, as Nekhbet described, but we have to keep in mind that dogs exist on a continuum of emotional reactivity just like people do.

And thats why I tell people always go get a second opinion, third opinion, tenth opinion. If they're all the same then, well, you have a decision to make. I have not made PTS calls often at all, they have been very rare, and in the times I have I was the one that actually contacted other professionals on their opinion of the animal (which pretty much all but 1 was dumped on me). Those decisions weigh extremely heavily on my conscience still despite them being the right thing. And their problems were caused by people which made it harder.

The day a decision like that doesn't affect me any more I'm hanging up my hat.

Trust me, it has to be one very seriously dangerous or deranged dog for me to say PTS as an only option. I'm known as the person you come too when everyone else gives up :p