ACD Breed Chart Project

[Guil]

Hi,

 

TD;LR: Need help to complete the puzzle leading to a complete breed chart that lead to modern Australian Cattle Dog, to eventually post it on Wikipedia.

 

I have a work dog with me that seem to be what people call the "old" type of Australian Cattle Dog. Broad head and body, stronger than "modern" ACD. It seems that this particular breed stock to be closer to Hall's but still, since his strong complexion, I believe something else got in the mix. Bull Terrier? That's likely, however, he does not lock his jaw and just nips perfect. Seems like his type was bread on top of Hall's (1832) in order to achieve a Drover that can get kicked by a bull and just keep working. (Seen him getting hit by a car pretty hard on several occasions but he stood there, unharmed)… I started working on this chart on my spar time and if anyone can help me complete it, I would really appreciate.

 

Cheers!

 

Guil & Bender

[Guil]

Here is the latest update, it's pretty close now.

 

That's the actual chart link so you can zoom it in as much as needed

 

Take me to the chart now !

[asal]

ANKC sell a copy of a book charting their evolution, even mentions Hilton Sinclair's Berrilyn dogs, he mentored me and gave me Debbi for my daughter and started me on Purebred ACD's

 

stumpys are seperate breed.

Edited May 8 by asal

[EastonDean]

On 05/05/2025 at 8:37 AM, Guil said:

Here is the latest update, it's pretty close now.

 

That's the actual chart link so you can zoom it in as much as needed

 

Take me to the chart now !







This ACD breed chart project is a fantastic initiative! Mapping out characteristics and lineage not only helps breeders and owners understand genetic traits but also preserves valuable breed history. It reminds me of the work done on hyperhistory.org, where timelines and interconnected data help visualize complex historical developments. Just like with dog breeds, understanding patterns over time leads to better decisions and deeper appreciation. Looking forward to seeing how the chart evolvesm, it could be a great resource for the community!

Thank you so much for sharing it.

Edited May 28 by EastonDean

[Guil]

On 20/05/2025 at 11:11 PM, EastonDean said:

Thank you so much for sharing it.

Yeah nah mate no issues there - there've been more changes here check it out

[Guil]

On 08/05/2025 at 11:03 AM, asal said:

:stumpys are seperate breed.

 

Yes they are according to kennel club appellation - however, just like for the standard cattle dog they appear of 2 different body structures - the old one that disappeared in the 1940s was not mixed with kelpies or dalmatians, and the new one that was basically created from standard available cattle dogs at the time (recessive gene, it'll happen to all ACDs, more for the older one as 2/3 bobtail) you can see the difference from the older picture I found at the national library in Canberra and the new one that is a lot thinner in appearance. Good workers too I heard!

Here is where it's at, nearly finished, making it compliant for wikipedia as we speak

 

Edited September 29 by Guil

[ell&diesel]

On 28/9/2025 at 4:59 PM, Guil said:

 

 

Why have you split the ACD into "Cattle Dog of Australia" (current type today) and "Australian Cattle Dog"? They are one and the same. There is only one ACD breed, it is the ANKC recognised breed and it looks like the photo you're using for "Cattle Dog of Australia." 
 

The dog you are using for "Australian Cattle Dog" is a poor specimen and certainly should not be getting used in an infographic about the ACD. Further to this, the ACD DOES NOT have "thin bone" or a "slimmer skull" by absolutely any stretch of the imagination. They are a broad-skulled breed, and the heaviest boned of all the Australian working dog breeds: the ACD has the heaviest bone, followed by the ASTCD, and finally the Australian Kelpie is the lightest-boned of the three. 
 

The ASTCD whose photo you're using is also not an ideal specimen to use as that dog is too fine. The person who produced that dog produced a dog called Ambajaye Tail Not Included, who is a far better representation of the breed. 
 

Neither the ACD nor the ASTCD are merle, ever. Merle DOES NOT exist in these breeds. 

 

The ASTCD was not ANKC recognised as the "A"STCD initially. It was the STCD until 2001, when it became the ASTCD.

 

The ASTCD did not "disappear" in the 1940s, Iris Heale certainly did not "reintroduce" them (quite the opposite, she almost sent the breed extinct), and the "new" breed wasn't "created" from standard cattle dogs (the breed never died out). I'm also unsure what "recessive gene" you're referring to - the NBT gene is a DOMINANT gene, not a recessive one, and that's why ACDs don't have stumpy tails. It's not a gene that can hide through generations, in order to produce stumpy tailed dogs you have to have at least one parent who HAS a stumpy tail. The gene is heterozygous lethal, however, which is why 2/3s of the ASTCD population will be born with a full tail. 
 

The first records in Australia of cattle dogs being exhibited was in 1889 in Victoria. They were short-tailed dogs (ie stumpies), shown under the breed name "Blue Heelers."

 

Fast forward a bit after Kaleski did his thing and made the first Cattle Dog breed standard. The Kennel Association of Queensland started differentiating between "Cattle Dogs (long-tailed)" and "Cattle Dogs (stumpy tailed)" in the 1920s, however they were still considered two variations of the same breed, both judged against the same Cattle Dog standard, and were freely interbred with progeny being registered and exhibited based on phenotype. It wasn't until 1934 that the "Cattle dog (stumpy tailed)" got its own breed standard, however the two breeds continued to be interbred.

 

In 1948, the Kennel Association of QLD became the CCCQ, and they then fell under the ANKC when it was formed in 1953. At this time, the CCCQ decided that they were most displeased with this history of (and ongoing) interbreeding of the two types, and thus they sought to deregister the Stumpy Tail Cattle Dog as a breed, along with all the breeders of the breed. Why they only chose to take this action against the STCD and not the ACD is one of life's great mysteries. 
 

Iris Heale fought them on this, and won - and on the 17th of October, 1957, the CCCQ rescinded its decision to de-register the STCD as a breed, and reinstated ONLY Glen Iris as a registered breeding kennel. This had the unfortunate effect of making Iris the only recognised breeder of the STCD in the world; and as she would not sell dogs for breeding to anybody, she damn well nearly sent the registered, pedigree version of the breed extinct. Working STCD have always been plentiful, however, and that's why the DR was able to succeed (see below).

 

The 1934 breed standard continued to be used until the breed was formally recognised nationally by the ANKC in 1963; at this time, the standard was revised to permit tan points on blue dogs.

 

In 1988, the ANKC realised that the STCD would go extinct as a result of Glen Iris' absolute control over the breed and her refusal to allow anybody else to purchase breeding specimens. The ANKC then revised the breed standard (removing tan points, bringing it back in line with the original 1934 standard), and created the Development Register to ensure the continued survival of the breed. The DR allowed people to bring their unregistered, farm-bred working stumpy tailed cattle dogs to grading days, and have them graded and then if they were sufficient, permitted into the breeding population. The DR closed in 2006.

 

I recommend you refer to the 2022 book "A Dog For The Job" by Noreen Clark. It is the most comprehensive and well-researched history of the two Cattle Dog breeds to date. Noreen also actively posts a lot about the breeds' histories on her Facebook page, and would likely have a wealth of useful information and feedback on your infographic.

[Guil]

Thanks for the detailed information. The breed chart I shared is a prototype, made after confirming that my own hound is a true cattle dog. I was trying to understand why so many people keep asking if he’s crossed with a Staffy. Posting it here on Dogz Online is deliberate. I believe it’s a topic that should be debated first within Australia, where the breed was born, before refining it for a public, yet autorised, Wiki entry.

 

On 11/10/2025 at 9:18 PM, ell&diesel said:

Why have you split the ACD into "Cattle Dog of Australia" (current type today) and "Australian Cattle Dog"? They are one and the same. There is only one ACD breed, it is the ANKC recognised breed and it looks like the photo you're using for "Cattle Dog of Australia." 

 

I understand that ACD is just the one breed according to DA (ANKC), and didn't say CDoA is a recognised breed my any mean. There are at least 2 levels of understanding to a reader on Wikipedia, the one that is official, reconised by litterate, and the one that is simply those who tryes to get a response the the "what's in it", being the broader audience. I do see 2 different types of muts under this appelation:

 

1 - The one made in Australia to work here under our unique weather, terrain etc, that was brought by Tim Hall in NSW (Dingo, Old English Collie & Northemberland Drover's) and George Eliot in QLD in the 19th centrury (Dingo & Old Engish Collie), that I insist, on my propriety for now, to be called CDoA. 

2 - The other one that emerged in early 20st century, Bugust brothers added Dalmatian and then Kelpie, which got around at the time when export was a thing, yanks loved em and also Europeans later. Very logical to have the region's name of where it's from at the top is the animal to be popular oversees. This is the gap I'd be pointing at sinec you asked!

 

This is only how I see it as a sensible person towards my environement. I have difficulties with how the selection is made and believe it would be of interest not only for people who wonder, but also perhaps for the ANKC to consider, as I believe we indeed have 2 separate specimens out there (refer to ACD/CDoA index on my chart). According to my personal approach, the one the was first first noticed and at many other occasions were Bagust types, when I moved to Sydney in 2003. They were all part of an urban setting. That is the one I was told to be ACD.

 

Many years later as I was running my trade down in Victoria, I purchased this specimen, the breeder called ACD, which grew strong with a short snout, a box head, broad shoulders and a pretty thick double coat, the kind that it takes him a while to feel uncomfortable under the rain.

 

Later on, as I moved to Canberra, came through some interesting information as it seemed he was indeed a purebred, however, not the kind that I knew from earlier. To reassure myself, I looked up the winners or ACD competitions and found that the breeder I got my hound from was 100% correct saying his father was a winner in competitions. Those winners looked exactly like my boy, and this is the time when I started digging in.

 

I updated myself with the origins, Hall's heeler in the 19th century, Bentley who from just the one stud was able to select specimens that were at his standard to come up with what I called CDoA as it differs quite a bit from the more modern one who was conceived by the Bagust bros (per Kaleski’s account, this claim stems directly from his writings rather than my own inference) in Sydney in the early 20th century, that, according to Kaleski's book, were crosses with no one but 2 other slimmer breeds such as Dalmatians and the Kelpie.

 

To us, as far as it goes, and I am neither a breeder or an academic, just a tradie, ACD (that became popular for exportation to Europe but mainly the US) are similar however different to the one I understood academics (are you?) call the ACD. Different to a point that, if we are in public, we have to spend time explaining the difference between a Bagust and a Bentley, and I understand why people are that curious, because they are confused.

 

On 11/10/2025 at 9:18 PM, ell&diesel said:

The dog you are using for "Australian Cattle Dog" is a poor specimen and certainly should not be getting used in an infographic about the ACD. Further to this, the ACD DOES NOT have "thin bone" or a "slimmer skull" by absolutely any stretch of the imagination. They are a broad-skulled breed, and the heaviest boned of all the Australian working dog breeds: the ACD has the heaviest bone, followed by the ASTCD, and finally the Australian Kelpie is the lightest-boned of the three. 

 

This particular specimen was deemed to suit the illustration of my research as it clearly displayed signs that would make it a fit for a post Bagust. To clarify the comparison between the Bentley and Bagust lines that the Bagust line does have a slimmer jawline than the original from Bentley. This description fits the comparaison, whilst there'd be interest in correcting my wording, I'm open to that as I am not a specialist, just a tradie, just pick the ones I believed to fit only to my liking, so yes definitely let me know which terms to fit best fit describing the physical trains in the scope of comparing those 2 categories that was decided to put through this breed chart, in the event you'd be an authority as it may sound that way?

 

On 11/10/2025 at 9:18 PM, ell&diesel said:

The ASTCD whose photo you're using is also not an ideal specimen to use as that dog is too fine. The person who produced that dog produced a dog called Ambajaye Tail Not Included, who is a far better representation of the breed. 

 

My apologies for that, however, this specimen is the one that is at the top of the ASTCD page on Wikipedia, however, can you tell that it is a post Bagust? I can, without a doubt. Bentley + Dalmatian + Kelpie. Not direct descent from the one I have described further down the diagram. 

 

On 11/10/2025 at 9:18 PM, ell&diesel said:

 

Neither the ACD nor the ASTCD are merle, ever. Merle DOES NOT exist in these breeds. 

 

Thank you for this information, I will extend my research even though I take your word for it.

 

On 11/10/2025 at 9:18 PM, ell&diesel said:

The ASTCD did not "disappear" in the 1940s, Iris Heale certainly did not "reintroduce" them (quite the opposite, she almost sent the breed extinct), and the "new" breed wasn't "created" from standard cattle dogs (the breed never died out). I'm also unsure what "recessive gene" you're referring to - the NBT gene is a DOMINANT gene, not a recessive one, and that's why ACDs don't have stumpy tails. It's not a gene that can hide through generations, in order to produce stumpy tailed dogs you have to have at least one parent who HAS a stumpy tail. The gene is heterozygous lethal, however, which is why 2/3s of the ASTCD population will be born with a full tail. 

 

I'm unsure where I wrote *recessive genes* as I was unable to find it in my work, meaning the link I shared, even though that term indeed popped into my tradie's mid for a minute but decided not to use it without any advice coming from a genetic literate person. However, I struggle to find any difference between an ACD, a "CDoA" (my trem) and an STCD as the cattle dog indeed carries that bobtail gene, and every now and then, you get one born with it, hence the struggle. I do not own a STCD and my plan wasn't to clarify anything about this official breed, still cannot find what differences are, and happy to receive any clarification.

Meanwhile the point I'm attempting to make  here is that the difference would actually be between Bentley's and Bagust's lineages, which gets a bob tail popping up every now and then. And when you look at the STCD specimens either out at the park or on infor pages they all look just like a Bagust. Note the picture I found at the National Library in Canberra? To us that's definitely the original.

 

On 11/10/2025 at 9:18 PM, ell&diesel said:

The first records in Australia of cattle dogs being exhibited was in 1889 in Victoria. They were short-tailed dogs (ie stumpies), shown under the breed name "Blue Heelers."

 

Well, there you go...they knew better!

 

On 11/10/2025 at 9:18 PM, ell&diesel said:

Fast forward a bit after Kaleski did his thing and made the first Cattle Dog breed standard. The Kennel Association of Queensland started differentiating between "Cattle Dogs (long-tailed)" and "Cattle Dogs (stumpy tailed)" in the 1920s, however they were still considered two variations of the same breed, both judged against the same Cattle Dog standard, and were freely interbred with progeny being registered and exhibited based on phenotype. It wasn't until 1934 that the "Cattle dog (stumpy tailed)" got its own breed standard, however the two breeds continued to be interbred.

 

I can't really interfere within academical politics, however this is of some interest as it shows confusion started at an early stage.

 

On 11/10/2025 at 9:18 PM, ell&diesel said:

In 1948, the Kennel Association of QLD became the CCCQ, and they then fell under the ANKC when it was formed in 1953. At this time, the CCCQ decided that they were most displeased with this history of (and ongoing) interbreeding of the two types, and thus they sought to deregister the Stumpy Tail Cattle Dog as a breed, along with all the breeders of the breed. Why they only chose to take this action against the STCD and not the ACD is one of life's great mysteries. 

 

Seems like more early confusions. Why peck off that poor stumpy tail when even though in 1948, we were basically 48 years after the Bagust type (5 breeds) and the older Bentley's (only 3). To us this is where they perhaps could have done something about, as no one in the world would come out of the woodworks disputing what type of breed your dog is if it just has a short tail.

 

On 11/10/2025 at 9:18 PM, ell&diesel said:

Iris Heale fought them on this, and won - and on the 17th of October, 1957, the CCCQ rescinded its decision to de-register the STCD as a breed, and reinstated ONLY Glen Iris as a registered breeding kennel. This had the unfortunate effect of making Iris the only recognised breeder of the STCD in the world; and as she would not sell dogs for breeding to anybody, she damn well nearly sent the registered, pedigree version of the breed extinct. Working STCD have always been plentiful, however, and that's why the DR was able to succeed (see below).

 

Thanks for putting through this information, it is of interest, however, the work I'm doing is supposed to be clinical and unbiased. This means, no politics, just the breed lines, that's what people are after in the end I do believe.

 

On 11/10/2025 at 9:18 PM, ell&diesel said:

The 1934 breed standard continued to be used until the breed was formally recognised nationally by the ANKC in 1963; at this time, the standard was revised to permit tan points on blue dogs.

 

Is the information in Kaleski's book? Or elsewhere? Can you let us know? This could make a difference in my work.

 

On 11/10/2025 at 9:18 PM, ell&diesel said:

In 1988, the ANKC realised that the STCD would go extinct as a result of Glen Iris' absolute control over the breed and her refusal to allow anybody else to purchase breeding specimens. The ANKC then revised the breed standard (removing tan points, bringing it back in line with the original 1934 standard), and created the Development Register to ensure the continued survival of the breed. The DR allowed people to bring their unregistered, farm-bred working stumpy tailed cattle dogs to grading days, and have them graded and then if they were sufficient, permitted into the breeding population. The DR closed in 2006.

 

Well, isn't it what Hall did with his heelers? In my sources it clearly says that he would not sell them either. He was keeping them only to distribute through his family's stockmen and various stations he owned? Here again, not in scope of what I'm attempting to do. In all courtesy, I must keep my head away from ego wars and other types of noise.

 

On 11/10/2025 at 9:18 PM, ell&diesel said:

I recommend you refer to the 2022 book "A Dog For The Job" by Noreen Clark. It is the most comprehensive and well-researched history of the two Cattle Dog breeds to date. Noreen also actively posts a lot about the breeds' histories on her Facebook page, and would likely have a wealth of useful information and feedback on your infographic.

 

Thank you for the reference, I have put it down to my list of readings, however, I hear this is a 2022 release and haven't heard any differentiation between Bagust's and the original Bentley's in your reply, any reason for that? Is the author to further inform us that are not between long tailed short tailed nas this isn't what I'm being put through by passersby in general, hence may not help us create a smoother foot travelling for future generations.

 

Questions to dog specialists (strictly in scope of the candid work I'm conducting, this means no bias of any kind, references would be accepted if clinical):

 

1. What are, to date, the differences deemed to show clear differences towards phenotype and behaviour between those 2 breeds, apart from tail size or coat patterns? 

 

To us (people) so far: Same breed

To administration: 2 breeds

 

2. How do you guys view that main difference in the 2 genotypes my breed chart is outlining regarding ACD (Bentley - 3 stems / Bagust - 5 stems)

 

To us (people) so far: 2 breeds, one rare (Bentley's)

To administration: Same breed

 

I'm sure we can agree somewhere, now, is the academy open to advice from some tradie that's not even a breeder, I don't know. Meanwhile, I must take your attention to the reaction my work received from someone I undertood to be a breeder, right here, on this page further above. This breed chart seems to have at least made one person happy so far (it was just the first draft, no pictures, missing a lot of information):

 

By @EastonDean

"This ACD breed chart project is a fantastic initiative! Mapping out characteristics and lineage not only helps breeders and owners understand genetic traits but also preserves valuable breed history. It reminds me of the work done on hyperhistory.org, where timelines and interconnected data help visualize complex historical developments. Just like with dog breeds, understanding patterns over time leads to better decisions and deeper appreciation. Looking forward to seeing how the chart evolvesm, it could be a great resource for the community!"

 

Questions to @ell&diesel

 

1. Are you satisfied with my replies to your first paragraph?

 

2. Can you define how merle is to absolutely be removed from my definition since it can be found online? Is it a genetic incongruity I committed by copying incorrect information?

 

3. Your reply seemed to be outlining that you'd be pretty close to the work Iris Hale has done with the ASTCD and heavy critiques about her counterproductivity. How, to you, did she manage to get the breed to go extinct like in the 1960s when information from reputable sources revealed that the stumpy tail had disappeared in the 40s? Mistakes? Deliberate?

 

4. What is your stance about what I'm bringing forward on the diagram, strictly according to ACD? Bagust vs Bentley? Anything from the book you advised to show that I'm mistaken?

 

For your reference, have you read Australian Barkers and Biters by Kaleski? (I haven't yet but planning on it) I believe there to be information about what type of dog was used as a stem before they added Dalmatian and Kelpie or would there not be any? I believe there would.

 

I invite you to take a look at that American forum, https://www.reddit.com/r/AustralianCattleDog/ browse through, and tell me if you still cannot see my point in differentiating ACD and CDoA or am I going bonkers? I mean all my mates agree with us, though logical reasoning, they aren't academics, they don't know anything about politics and don't compete with their hounds but those guys are the 99.9999999% readers on wikipedia and they want the information to be clarified according to this.

 

Will update my chart shortly once I have verified the information you have provided and will post the revision here.

Edited 11 hours ago by Guil