ACD job losses in favour of the English Border Collie

[Guil]

Here is an analysis of the situation (attached) - Would the Koolie slowly take over? Or is there, not a breed or training issue (as work dogs are sold trained and ready to work) but a handling issue caused by lack of knowledge from new generation farmers? One thing I'm worried about this shift and the taste of our steaks, is that the dogs are using force to move the cows, being physical (ACD) and psychological (Border Collie), which of the 2 makes the tastiest? Me wonda.

 

My questions were:

Here is a question I would like a thorough deep research about, or several questions around the same subject. I have noticed that it's been a while now, in Australia, Border Collies have replaced Australian Cattle Dogs in beef farming. It's frustrating as this dog is actually made to herd sheep but it's attitude as actually preferred by farmers for some reason. So according to reputable sources (if you have to go on social media or forums, if it's necessary, please separate them from the reputable sources, as the latter sometimes is not worth of trust so we will keep them as an alternative stock of information):

 

1) Why do some Australian farmers now do prefer Border collies or some type of random cross breed rather than the ACD?

2) What is the the percentage of stations that do not use ACD any longer?

3) Why would they also use dogs that I can't recognise what breed they are?

4) Is there one or multiple other breeds that are used instead of our Bluey? 
4.1- If so what are they and why?

5) Are there any issues that farmers complain about, according to the new breed they have chosen?

It seems to be a new thing, not sure how long it's been but indeed, at shows it's all about the Border Collie, so if you can find the date of when that shift happened it would be of interest, at least for you so look for this first and then concentrate the questions onto the date it happened until today. Only Australian farmers, no matter what size the station is, family or else.

Trend_ From Heelers to Collies and Crossbreeds.pdf

Edited yesterday at 03:11 AM by Guil

[Dogsfevr]

Farmers have been using the more agile /multi purpose breeds for a long time & i imagine the fact that there are many great working BC,Koolie <Working Kelpie breeders out there compared to Bluey breeders 

[DogsAndTheMob]

I’ve spent a lot of time in rural NSW over the past 50 years, including during droughts when I saw a lot of farmers and their livestock on “the long paddock”. I’ve rarely (if ever) seen ACDs working livestock; most farmers I’ve seen have used kelpies, border collies or kelpie x border collie crosses with both sheep and cattle. I did see a lot of ACDs used by tradesmen and farm workers as travelling companions and guards for their utes and equipment but that is much less common now.

 

I believe (although I can’t be certain) that there are fewer border collie x kelpie crosses now because more farmers buy their dogs from professional breeders, whereas in the past one farmer would breed his best working bitch to a neighbour’s top working dog, irrespective of breed. This may have had the benefit of producing dogs that were better suited to the local conditions but also the downside of not accessing the best available genetics in the state or country.

 

Edited to add: When I was competing in ANKC herding with my border collie, one of the best dogs I saw was a red cattle dog bitch. She worked sheep very gently but effectively, which was totally different from the stereotyped depictions I’d heard of cattle dogs on stock. I can’t remember seeing any other ACDs working stock, although I can remember seeing border collies and kelpies mustering, droving and working in stock yards.

 

 

Edited 21 hours ago by DogsAndTheMob

[DogsAndTheMob]

The Australian Cattle-Dog by “Sir Bedivere” (includes photographs)

 

Out of interest, I have started searching for references to cattle dogs in papers accessible on Trove.

 

[Guil]

18 hours ago, DogsAndTheMob said:

stereotyped depictions I’d heard of cattle dogs on stock

 

Woah big one here. That's exactly what we get here this season. I was not expecting it.

My bluey works quietly, he would step back to start with if an individual would get "chargy" at him on approach however, would calmly get back to work, circle them around till they go in the correct direction. I'd go "yeah, that'll do mate" and he would come back to us until he would reckon they'd need more stimulation. He can faint a nip and stock animals know what he would be doing, so no need taking the risk as the individual would find it's place in the mob fast anyhow.

 

But yes, I get a lot of reluctance from farmers when they know I have a cattle dog, they kina look at us sideways and decline my offer. Thing is, I'm sick of travelling with this hound and all he wants is to work cattle professionally, he can't bare it to see those invaders that conducts psychological warfare, bluff, as they couldn't bare a kick. I've seen my boy getting kicked in the head by a bull once, he just kept going at him till it shooed of with the females. Yeah bulls, they get gardy too.

 

With sheep, I find him a bit rough but here again, we'd spend more time working with'em, he'll get it - 100%.

 

I have read that BCs are a lot more friendly by default than ACDs and it's very true, I love them dogos. However, people today don't understand that an ACD defends a perimeter around they owner, and will growl at anyone entering the perimeter within a range of circumstances (my mother would get that too), but thing is, that's who they are, that's Australia, we're down under aye! Like I say to everyone that take this personally, "don't worry about this shithead, just come give him a pat", always works, they smile and walk away happy with a story at hand.

People always say to us when we're in public: I can't believe how well trained your dog is. I often reply "Thanks... Actually, he hasn't been trained at all in any way. What you see here is the result of correct handling." -> And this is what I believe farmers in the last 50 years never got right, at least the ones you've witnessed using BCs, or just backyard breeding with best working stud, no matter what genes it's got.

 

Ain't saying that the ACD are better, however think about that one: Would you prefer eating beef from an individual that was worked by an ACD - just persuasion, minimal force, and its bark that puts the cattle under a spell, or from a BC that has carried on continuous psychological warfare on them cus' it's afraid of being kicked.

What do you say to that?

In conclusion, what I believe.
1 - Training before purchase, can help, however it bulges the investment, does not guarantee no cattle harassed.

2 - Correct handling by owner, the dog will learn from his mates, will receive the correct orders and will stop when asked.

3 - Incorrect handling or neglect: chances are, probably what those stereotyped depictions were here to tell. I would never blame a dog, I would always blame the man who owns him... the poor thing. 

Edited 2 hours ago by Guil

[Guil]

18 hours ago, DogsAndTheMob said:

The Australian Cattle-Dog by “Sir Bedivere” (includes photographs)

 

Out of interest, I have started searching for references to cattle dogs in papers accessible on Trove.

 

 

That's basically what I've been doing throughout the last year since I found out that my bluey ain't crossed with a staffy, thus the investment was a full blown bargain. If you're interested to see the work I've done with not just trove articles but other reputable sources, there is another post I've started called ACD Breed Chart and yes you can check the new history part in the ACD page on Wikipedia, I published it up yesterday, in the continuity of revision of the Kelpie article I did too. In there, they were saying that it didn't have any Dingo in it because of a genetic study. But thing is, that scholar lady clearly said on the TV news not to use her study to out rule history. 

And yes I cannot agree more about what it says in that article you've put through - doesn't matter what breed they are, and yes a bull dog can make sense but thing is, a Bentley ACD (I prefer just cattle dog), is basically been bred for that. Thanks for sharing.